Pathfinder as skirmish-level wargame

[Grymore]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever used Pathfinder and PFS rules to play a skirmish-level wargame? Maybe 10 levels and up to 5 characters?

Seems like with all the rules, and a few tweaks, it would make for a simple and fun wargame.

[BretI]

Full circle, huh? The original D&D boxed set (or mimeograph pages) came out of wargaming.

All you have to do is drop the roleplaying and simplify a few rules.

[Grymore]

Now that I think about it, that is full circle.

[SteelDraco]

I think Pathfinder is probably too detailed in its current form to play well as a skirmish game. You'd have to drop quite a bit to get it to a level where I think it would work well.

[Charon's Little Helper]

Isn't there already a D&D minis game?

Using the rules as written would probably take too long. Running more than 2-4 intricately built martials or any sort of spellcaster by yourself would get tedious.

And frankly - Pathfinder isn't really balanced enough for wargaming. The classes are generally in the same ballpark. (until higher levels) But some are definitely better than others from a pure combat perspective.

[Grymore]

Still, worth a try. I get there are othe rminis games out there, but the characters are all pre-defined. Using Pathfinder would allow you to build your own characters and play.

We have a game day in our area coming up--I'm going to give it a try, with a few tweaks.

Simple-Short Game Format
6 total levels.
4 maximum characters.
3rd level max.

Gold

1st 750

2nd 1500

3rd 3000

Initiative
One character rolls for each team. Players take turns after the first character moves.

Save Rolls
A character can use a free action to make 1 save roll (Fort, Reflex or Will) each turn. A successful roll negates all effects tied to the one save roll.

Any other ideas

[Pigtails]

I feel like Mordheim is probably the closest skirmish-level wargame with roleplaying elements you could get. With a few rule tweaks you could easily fit all the typical races and classes in from Pathfinder - PF does suffer from a lot of numbers and it is going to be a lot easier to go from rules-lite up than rules-heavy and down to fit a particular scale.

Since the rules are free and everything is measured in inches, you could easily translate the game to a grid and be fine (though three-dimensional movement could be a bit tricky depending on how you tackled it).

I've played Mordheim for a couple of years at this point with a variety of warbands and each and every one has been different. We've always modified a few of the rules so that lists would be less generic (there are obviously superior choices with the regular rules) and keep things a bit more balanced between the groups. My favorite part of the system is when characters are taken out of action - there's always a risk that they die, or end up as a captive to whoever you just fought, or even end up scarred and cause fear when charging foes! The whole system is just filled with little elements that drives home the fast that Mordheim is a wargame with a narrative, even if there isn't an explicit story in regular play.

I could talk about playing Mordheim for days I'm sure! Please though, do look it up - I think you would think it is a suitable game to look at and compare your ideas for a Pathfinder skirmish game.

[Lucy_Valentine]

Grymore wrote:

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever used Pathfinder and PFS rules to play a skirmish-level wargame? Maybe 10 levels and up to 5 characters?

Seems like with all the rules, and a few tweaks, it would make for a simple and fun wargame.

No, it's way too complicated. People complain about it being too slow with animal companions and summons bringing it up to ten people and creatures in a party.

You could write a pathfinder-based skirmish game, but you'd be cutting a lot of it out. And it probably wouldn't be distinct from a 3.0 or even 2.0-based game. I'm also not really sure what the point would be - PF doesn't have anything that would be particularly interesting for a skirmish game.