Unarmed Strike -- not being a Monk


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


OK SO I am thinking of making a Shadow Assassin (fletchling if possible) Want to make it using Unarmed Strike, but want good damage.

What would be the best build to make for U.S. as a rogue type to get high damage?


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

gauntlets/cestus would be a good choice.


Rogue can deal lots of extra damage from Sneak Attack. Ditto the Vivisectionist Alchemist; however, you'd either need a partner you can always rely on to Flank, or have a godly Feint score, in order to consistently have Sneak Attack up (if you can gain an Animal Companion or Mount, it and you should take Pack Flanking and commence the Culling)

The Brawler's unarmed damage scales as a Monk's damage, counts as both a Monk and Fighter, and gets more attacks at the same iterations as a Monk (if you gain 1 or more Natural attack); it's the generic "Superhero" class.

Sacred Fist scales as a Monk's damage and gets Flurry of Blows

The Warpriest scales at 1 die behind a Monk/Sacred Fist but gets access to more Combat Feats (which it counts as a Fighter when taking)

An Enlightened Paladin is designed specifically to be an unarmed Paladin, and trades out Smite Evil for Insight Bonuses to attack and damage (on top of Divine Bond bonuses to your Unarmed Strikes)

Barbarians can theoretically be nightmares for unarmed damage while also gaining Natural Attacks via totems.

Slayers and Rangers don't increase their base dice damage like the Warpriest, Sacred Fist, or Brawler, but they do get static bonuses when attacking their Studied Prey/Favored Enemy (a Ranger, by way of Archetypes, can gain either Studied or Favored).

Investigators gain lots of bonuses vs Studied Targets (similar precision damage to a Rogue's Sneak Attack).


The big thing to consider is that eventually the weapon in question becomes less important than the bonuses.

An unarmed strike from a Paladin at lv20 deals 1d4 damage without bonuses. An unarmed strike from a Monk at lv20 deals 2d10 damage without bonuses.

One deals an average of 2.5 damage; the other deals an average of 11. But the shear number of bonuses from various sources basically make this 8.5 damage/attack difference nearly a non-issue (nearly... it's still an issue when multiplying out damage, but at higher levels, any lv20 character is going to be shelling out absurd amounts of damage a turn anyway, and will likely reduce anything less than a mid-boss to a fine mist in one round regardless).

You're better off only taking classes like the Monk, Brawler, Sacred Fist, or Warpriest, whose damage dice scale as they level, than you are classes like the Rogue, Ranger, etc., whom are all stuck on 1d4 as their base damage... at least at lower levels. Once you get to mid-range levels (11~16) damage dice become less important, and once you hit lv20+, the choice of weapon becomes nearly fluff when concerning damage (though a Huge Impact Greatsword wielded by a Titan Mauler Barbarian under the effects of Enlarge Person, Righteous Might, or Divine Vessel is, hilariously, an exception to this rule).

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Sacred Fist Warpriest as mentioned, or Sap Master Ninja (Scout).

Sovereign Court

Chbgraphicarts has the right of it. It's the static damage that is important in the long term.

The only thing Monks get are an expanding damage die and a nice thing for two-weapon fighting really. You can still take all the other good bonus damage feats/magic items and the like.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Morgen wrote:

Chbgraphicarts has the right of it. It's the static damage that is important in the long term.

The only thing Monks get are an expanding damage die and a nice thing for two-weapon fighting really. You can still take all the other good bonus damage feats/magic items and the like.

this is why I mention the cestus/gauntlet, since you can behave like they're normal weapons but you still get to thematically backhand everyone.

Sovereign Court

Also good choices for weapons! Cheaper in the long run too. I did a two-weapon fighting spiked gauntlet inquisitor once that was quiet fun. If only he'd been a better swimmer. -.-


Take the Underhanded* feat! You can treat unarmed attacks as concealed weapons, but your high ass stealth will make sure no one sees you coming to start with. Get Sap Master to deal a ton of nonlethal damage from the dark.

Since you need a good CHA for Underhanded, Eldritch Heritage: Shadow would be an interesting way to go.


Brawling armor will make an unarmed strike into a reasonably damaging weapon, but far more importantly will give you an untyped +2 bonus to attack.

A Barbarian can get the Greater Brawler rage power to turn their unarmed strike into a 1d6 and make an offhand unarmed strike without needing TWF. Dragon Style/Ferocity combined with Barbarian Rage combined with Brawling armor combined with bonus offhand could be pretty devastating. You could also do this with a Primalist Bloodrager to have a little magic for your Shadow Assassin. Fun to pop out of the shadows with a Mirror Image going and Rage on someone.


The Brawler archetype for Fighters isn't shabby at it either. It gets +1/+3 damage to unarmed strikes at 3rd level (+1/+1 every four levels thereafter), and its kit has good synergy with the newly released Grabbing Style. You can grapple, reposition and drag all day, without allowing anyone to escape your grasp.

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