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A Guide To The Swashbuckler


Advice

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And so here we have it, what hopes to be a relatively comprehensive and understandable guide to playing a Swashbuckler. Races, Feats, Archetypes, you name it. Takes into account material from most everything Paizo, including the core books, companions such as the Advanced Race Guide and Inner Sea World Guide, and so on. If it's on the SRD, I've probably taken it into account. That or completely missed it, which is entirely possible; if you see anything obvious(or obscure) that needs adding or alteration, or disagree with some of my ratings, point it out!

With that said, here it is: The Dashing Daring Dandy's Dragoman, a guide to the Swashbuckler.


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A couple of things:

You misunderstand perfect thrust. You make a SINGLE attack. The stuff about pooling attack potential is just flavor text.

It is still good vs insane DR or insane AC, or when you really want to get a rider off it, but nowhere near blue.

In general feats I would put steadfast personality as at least a green, maybe blue, feat. The problem of swashbuckler is atrocious sv throws, this almost makes up for half of them

Flying blade, returning enchant, etc:
Just grab a blinkback belt. Now you only need a single dagger and it doesn't even need returning.

Swashbuckler initiative and quick draw:
Dueling enchantment on weapons requires them to be held. Not anymore for you. Whether you are surprised or not you gain the benefit of dueling enchant.

Also quick draw is pretty nifty by itself:
Precise strike does apply to thrown weapons by default. Darts/daggers/etc should be your most damaging ranged attacks without any investment.

Item section misses a lot of things:
Mainly swordmaster flair should be neon blue
Also one of the most horrendously OP items in pathfinder for you: cape of feinting
Fortuitous and answering are both AMAXING weapon enchants.
And the named "swashbucklers rapier" can get you a long way for it's cost

You can also use simultaneously a defending dagger and a buckler for stacking ac. Precise strike requires to
A) not attack with offhand (which you don't need to activate defending, just wield)
B) not use a heavier than buckler shield

Gloves of marking are also excellent. In addition to the +2/+2 if paired with your deeds you can make someone up to frightened with a single crit, plus you are now Zorro


Nice work, I was hoping someone would write a swashbuckler guide.

My main issue with it right now is that it marks Power Attack as red. There are a LOT of times when Power Attack is your best option.

I'm playing a swashbuckler currently and I have been repeatedly asked (by the GM and other players) how I can put out so much damage. I have to explain it multiple times because they are still amazed I am hitting so hard with a rapier.

You want to Power Attack when: you are only making one attack, or you have a bonus to attack (e.g. flanking or vs prone), or your enemy has DR, or you are hasted, or when the enemy has low AC.

You don't want to Power Attack when: you are taking a full attack without buffs, bonuses, or Haste.

It does slightly hinder your parry chances, but it also makes the riposte more painful.

It gives you a damage boost that scales in a much better way than Slashing Grace. And they're not at all mutually exclusive - you can keep Str at 13 (which incidentally makes those carrying weight issues go away) and use Slashing Grace while you Power Attack.

There's way too many situations where Power Attack is the best option for it to be marked in red.


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I prefer piranha strike myself, it lets me play with 10str. Although I had to spent my move action to lose my backpack every single combat until like lvl4 that I could afford my handy haversack and mithril shirt

Still I find it hard to make place for it. Between the 2feats for grace, combat reflexes, and steadfast I'm pretty hard pressed for space at early levels.
And at later levels with iterative attacks, one handed pa/piranha isn't that spectacular. One missed iterative due to attack penalty and *poof* all that extra damage the previous attacks did is effectively lost.


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The fact that Piranha Strike requires light weapons makes it much more limiting than Power Attack. If you want to use Slashing Grace it doesn't work, and if you want to use a rapier (or other one-handed weapon) it doesn't work.


bumping for later


RumpinRufus wrote:
The fact that Piranha Strike requires light weapons makes it much more limiting than Power Attack. If you want to use Slashing Grace it doesn't work, and if you want to use a rapier (or other one-handed weapon) it doesn't work.

True, forgot that.

Still, my main problem is feat space since I prefer building up my will from early on, and later on it loses it usefulness with a one handed weapon. P.e. -4 attack on your third attack at 12lvl really hurts, and the potential 16 damage you will get from the first two attacks doesn't make up for a lost attack.


If you are hasted at level 12 (and you probably should be, by Boots of Speed if not a caster) then the extra damage on your two main attacks is huge.

Like I said, the time you don't want to Power Attack is when you're full attacking with no buffs or bonuses. But if you only have a single attack, or you're hasted, or have buffs or bonuses, it pays off nicely.


And 7 attribute points can't be bought back:) No feat is worth that many points.

Still don't think its red territory, but its not that great with the high cost.


Under A Bleeding Sun wrote:

And 7 attribute points can't be bought back:) No feat is worth that many points.

Still don't think its red territory, but its not that great with the high cost.

If you dump Str down from a 13 to a 7 that is a -3 to CMB and CMD, -3 to throwing damage or bow damage, -3 damage when you're using a weapon besides your Slashing Grace weapon, -3 to Climb and Swim, and drops your light load from 50 lb to 23 lb.

There's lots of reasons not to dump strength, Power Attack is just the most deadly one.


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Drat, I'd figured Perfect Thrust to be a sort of souped-up Vital Strike. That ruling makes much more sense given past versions of things similar to it, however. A shame.

Quick Draw synergy noted; it's better than I thought, especially for Flying Blades.

And all right, I've adjusted Power Attack some. I do still believe Piranha Striking with an Agile(if your GM doesn't let Slashing Grace work with light weapons) Wakizashi is better for a damage-focused Swashbuckler, though, due to the inherent MADness associated with a Finesse fighter using Power Attack.

I knew I'd miss stuff when it came to magic items, so that comes as no surprise! There's just so many of the things. And some of those are insanely good.

Everything taken into account, and the guide amended to reflect it!


Color me mollified.


RumpinRufus wrote:
Under A Bleeding Sun wrote:

And 7 attribute points can't be bought back:) No feat is worth that many points.

Still don't think its red territory, but its not that great with the high cost.

If you dump Str down from a 13 to a 7 that is a -3 to CMB and CMD, -3 to throwing damage or bow damage, -3 damage when you're using a weapon besides your Slashing Grace weapon, -3 to Climb and Swim, and drops your light load from 50 lb to 23 lb.

There's lots of reasons not to dump strength, Power Attack is just the most deadly one.

For most part it comes down to:

For HALF your levels:
1 ref 1init 1attack 1damage 1ac +1dex skills
Vs
(-1attack +2damage)/4 +1str skills

For me (dropping Dex by 1 and raising str to 13 from 10).

Still don't think it is worth it for a lot of builds. Now sure, if you make him a complete DPR machine you can pull it off, but for most normal games it's better to have some skills, higher saves and HP, and etc.

Still not red. Because a lot people in these forums often try to go for max DPR disregarding other things. Maybe orange/green?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

For the head slot magic items, consider the Plume of Panache, which, though badly worded, seems to give one extra panache per day. Nothing in the item's description prevents you from purchasing multiple Plumes and swapping them out as you burn them out for the day.


Thrice wrote:

Drat, I'd figured Perfect Thrust to be a sort of souped-up Vital Strike. That ruling makes much more sense given past versions of things similar to it, however. A shame.

Quick Draw synergy noted; it's better than I thought, especially for Flying Blades.

And all right, I've adjusted Power Attack some. I do still believe Piranha Striking with an Agile(if your GM doesn't let Slashing Grace work with light weapons) Wakizashi is better for a damage-focused Swashbuckler, though, due to the inherent MADness associated with a Finesse fighter using Power Attack.

I knew I'd miss stuff when it came to magic items, so that comes as no surprise! There's just so many of the things. And some of those are insanely good.

Everything taken into account, and the guide amended to reflect it!

Perfect thrust is still a good ability. If it was a full attack it would be mortifyingly OP.

At the level you get it you can resolve touch attacks that bypass DR and do something like 45 damage, and continue to parry another 2 attacks for 45 each, while fighting defensively and boosting your AC.
Or you could do 60damage touch attacks that process bleeds and provoke dazes and etc


You don't mention cruel property for weapons. You already are shackening enemies with your intimidate skill. Why not continue debuffing with sicken?

Cruel Property

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Nice guide, but I'm confused by the desire to convince a GM to allow Piranha Strike on thrown daggers. Why not just use Deadly Aim? It's exactly the same effect, but is meant to be used on ranged attacks.

Also, consider some of the non-human races for a Flying Blade build, because a racial SLA will qualify you for Arcane Strike, which boosts damage and gets you past DR/magic and incorporeal creatures without shelling out for multiple enchanted daggers.

Liberty's Edge

I think you are also underestimating the value of Targeted Strike. One of the main problems with combat maneuvers is that CMD scales up faster than your CMB which makes it harder to pull off a maneuver at higher levels. With Targeted Strike you get a choice of 4 effects (Disarm, Confuse, Trip, Stagger) with a successful hit, no combat maneuver check required. Perfect option for stopping an opponent from doing any damage or taking any action. It also can generate a few AoOs.

One other thing, lose the profanity in your write up. It is unnecessary and some will find it offensive.

Sovereign Court

What about the inevitable comparison with the daring champion cavalier archetype? I mean...Daring champion is a ridiculously good archetype right now for swashbuckler type of characters.


Also dizzing defense:
The bonus here is that it changes fight defensively to swift action.
That means that you can full attack at no penalty, and then apply fighting defensively.
So you only get the -2 at aoo but the ac bonus to all attacks.
It is basically: 1swift for +4ac, -2 on aoo

As far as bonus feats go, a mention to some good fighter only could help. P.e I don't think that many things could beat picking up critical versatility on lvl12 as a human swashbuckler.

Also your stat arrays:
I would advice AGAINST using 8str on a starting swashbuckler. You are unable to wear even a studded leather with that low, let alone chain shirt.
A buckler is 5p studded another 20, a rapier 2,
You are ALREADY ABOVE LIGHT without any clothing, backpack, supplies, ranged weapons, secondary weapon, etc

Even at higher levels:
Handy haversack is 5
Celestial chain is 20
Rapier is 2

Again above light and you don't even have a buckler or ranged weapons or even clothes! included.


Since, I like to be contrary, I will tell you otherwise: How vital is DEX to the swashbuckler actually?

Lets ignore the fact that is is associated with traditionally dex based styles (and it is VERY dex friendly with the free weapon finesse and static bonuses to damage), and look at what actually encourages its use.

Traditionally, in the absence of TWF or ranged styles, there are 2 main advantages of DEX over strength (which has the advantage of getting stat to damage without all the hoops): it adds to reflex, and it adds to AC. Now, we can kind of ignore reflex here (it is your good save, so it doesn't need the massive help that a fighter might need). And for AC, you are actually doing rather well there as well since you can sword and board with a buckler. A +3 armor costs more than a +2 armor and a +2 buckler; having more slots adding to the same thing means it is easier to boost with the scaling cost system of upgrades; also, that sweet scaling nimble bonus to AC makes your light armor moot eventually. So a swashbuckler can be rather sturdy, if not tanky, even without being DEX focused.

There is one other use for dex (as far as I can see), however: AoOs, which is rather important with ripostes. Whether the extra number of AoO's justifies that (since you could go with 14 dex and still get 3 per round early on, and expand that with a +dex belt later) is up for debate.

If you have noticed any other mechanics that specifically NEEDS dex, then I would actually love to see them. I am not entirely advocating that dex swashbucklers are bad, or that they shouldn't be the standard for the class. I just like to argue a bit, and found it interesting that this was even an option when everyone is running with a single specific idea of what the swashbuckler 'should' be.


lemeres wrote:

Since, I like to be contrary, I will tell you otherwise: How vital is DEX to the swashbuckler actually?

Lets ignore the fact that is is associated with traditionally dex based styles (and it is VERY dex friendly with the free weapon finesse and static bonuses to damage), and look at what actually encourages its use.

Traditionally, in the absence of TWF or ranged styles, there are 2 main advantages of DEX over strength (which has the advantage of getting stat to damage without all the hoops): it adds to reflex, and it adds to AC. Now, we can kind of ignore reflex here (it is your good save, so it doesn't need the massive help that a fighter might need). And for AC, you are actually doing rather well there as well since you can sword and board with a buckler. A +3 armor costs more than a +2 armor and a +2 buckler; having more slots adding to the same thing means it is easier to boost with the scaling cost system of upgrades; also, that sweet scaling nimble bonus to AC makes your light armor moot eventually. So a swashbuckler can be rather sturdy, if not tanky, even without being DEX focused.

There is one other use for dex (as far as I can see), however: AoOs, which is rather important with ripostes. Whether the extra number of AoO's justifies that (since you could go with 14 dex and still get 3 per round early on, and expand that with a +dex belt later) is up for debate.

If you have noticed any other mechanics that specifically NEEDS dex, then I would actually love to see them. I am not entirely advocating that dex swashbucklers are bad, or that they shouldn't be the standard for the class. I just like to argue a bit, and found it interesting that this was even an option when everyone is running with a single specific idea of what the swashbuckler 'should' be.

Nothing prevents a Dex swashbuckler going for a +2buckler too, effectively gaining much more AC

But the problem with going str based is stats.
As you said you need at least 14dex for aoo. That is 5 less points if you are going with 10str full Dex.
Belt is also a problem, because where a Dex based needs a Dex/con one, a str based would need str/Dex/con which is much more expensive.
And in the end, the only thing you gain going str based is 1feat


shroudb wrote:
lemeres wrote:

Since, I like to be contrary, I will tell you otherwise: How vital is DEX to the swashbuckler actually?

Lets ignore the fact that is is associated with traditionally dex based styles (and it is VERY dex friendly with the free weapon finesse and static bonuses to damage), and look at what actually encourages its use.

Traditionally, in the absence of TWF or ranged styles, there are 2 main advantages of DEX over strength (which has the advantage of getting stat to damage without all the hoops): it adds to reflex, and it adds to AC. Now, we can kind of ignore reflex here (it is your good save, so it doesn't need the massive help that a fighter might need). And for AC, you are actually doing rather well there as well since you can sword and board with a buckler. A +3 armor costs more than a +2 armor and a +2 buckler; having more slots adding to the same thing means it is easier to boost with the scaling cost system of upgrades; also, that sweet scaling nimble bonus to AC makes your light armor moot eventually. So a swashbuckler can be rather sturdy, if not tanky, even without being DEX focused.

There is one other use for dex (as far as I can see), however: AoOs, which is rather important with ripostes. Whether the extra number of AoO's justifies that (since you could go with 14 dex and still get 3 per round early on, and expand that with a +dex belt later) is up for debate.

If you have noticed any other mechanics that specifically NEEDS dex, then I would actually love to see them. I am not entirely advocating that dex swashbucklers are bad, or that they shouldn't be the standard for the class. I just like to argue a bit, and found it interesting that this was even an option when everyone is running with a single specific idea of what the swashbuckler 'should' be.

Nothing prevents a Dex swashbuckler going for a +2buckler too, effectively gaining much more AC

But the problem with going str based is stats.
As you said you need at least 14dex for aoo. That is 5 less...

Eh, just go with the 16/14/14/10/10/14 model on a 20 pt buy. It is a bit conservative but solid model for most martials that also have an important mental stat.

And I would typically go with a 13-14 str anyway (really, same stat spread, just move str and dex around). Rapiers need power attack rather than piranha strike, and while there are other, lighter weapons that could fit the bill...rapiers are just kind of a standard to compare against since they fit the class's abilities without any firangling, and it is the high crit that is fairly much expected with the panche system. I am not the type that is obsessed with getting a 20 here. As a full BAB character, you are hitting well enough without that. Also, even with riposte and panche...are you honestly going to be doing 8+ AoO's per round?

And I never said dex builds couldn't grab bucklers too. Just that it is the same problem as reflex- you can still end up with plenty, even without making it your focus.


I find 14 cha to be low for swashbucklers.

Given that you need to keep 1 in reserve, that gives you only 1 to play around with.

After lvl11 and signature deed I would like to have as many aoo as possible. Even against an animal or a hasted opponent you would have to parry 4-5 and that is from a single opponent. Add fortuitous enchantment and it gets expensive (6-7 aoo for a single opponent)

Power attack IS nice to have, but swashbuckler is feat heavy already imo


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Oddly enough... When building a Swashbuckler you're still better off focusing on Str and getting a 2-handed weapon. You can even dump Cha and focus on Con and Wis to make up for your atrocious saves, then grab Extra Panache to compensate.

Admittedly, it's not the flavor most players are looking for when they decide to play a Swashbuckler, but it's mechanically viable, so I feel it should be mentioned in a class guide.

BTW, speaking of saves... You might want to mention Wayfinder + Clear Spindle Ioun Stone, which gives you protection against mind control and possession by Evil creatures (probably the ones you'll be fighting most of the time, anyway).

A cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun stone can give characters a +1 to all saves or to attack rolls.

Jingasa of Fortunate Solders is also universally great.


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Lemmy wrote:

Oddly enough... When building a Swashbuckler you're still better off focusing on Str and getting a 2-handed weapon. You can even dump Cha and focus on Con and Wis to make up for your atrocious saves.

Admittedly, it's not the flavor most players are looking for when they decide to play a Swashbuckler, but it's mechanically viable, so I feel it should be mentioned in a class guide.

From the way that precise strike scales, it seems to me that it is meant to make a power attack/piranha strike from a 1 handed/light weapon match the power attack from a 2 handed weapon (assuming the other side is a full martial with decent strength and strength enhancements for their level). It is meant to make the Swashbuckler compare to other full martials (you then get that swashbuckler's weapon training in order to compare to the other damage increasing mechanics you see on full BAB clases). So getting 2 handed-like damage, and still leaving room for sword and board is rather nice. I always hated that you had to go TWF with sword and shield to be 'optimized', and this class is built to avert that idea (and heck, it even salvages throwing builds)

Anyway, tying this back to the discussion of the guide, I have to agree with other posters that I would never entirely see precise strike as a replacement for such damage boosters. There might be some more argument if you have another source of static bonuses, such as arcane strike, but I would still seriously look into the cost benefit analysis between damage and accuracy.

On that note: What do you think about grabbing arcane strike? About half as good as power attack, and only costs a swift action rather than accuracy? Based upon a FAQ about Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites, you can grab feats that require casting, like arcane strike, as long as you have an appropriate spell like ability. There are only a few ways to get something like that to scale caster level (which scales arcane strike) with your level though. One particularly accessible method of getting such an SLA is via the Light Bringer trait

Arcane strike is also valuable since it opens up Riving strike. That feat is basically a 1 turn Evil Eye hex on anything you smack with arcane strike. So a -2 to saves against spells gives you a nice little role as a debuffer.

Liberty's Edge

If you want to use a two-hander with no CHA why even play a Swashbuckler? When not using a light or one-handed piercing weapon you basically lose half of your deeds (all of them if you don't take Extra Panache), you have no Panache and no way to regain Panache (if you take Extra Panache), and you lose most of your class abilities (all except Nimble and Bonus Feats).

If you want a STR based, dumped CHA, 2-Handed Weapon using character, play a Fighter or even a Rogue


Lemmy wrote:

Oddly enough... When building a Swashbuckler you're still better off focusing on Str and getting a 2-handed weapon. You can even dump Cha and focus on Con and Wis to make up for your atrocious saves, then grab Extra Panache to compensate.

Admittedly, it's not the flavor most players are looking for when they decide to play a Swashbuckler, but it's mechanically viable, so I feel it should be mentioned in a class guide.

BTW, speaking of saves... You might want to mention Wayfinder + Clear Spindle Ioun Stone, which gives you protection against mind control and possession by Evil creatures (probably the ones you'll be fighting most of the time, anyway).

A cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun stone can give characters a +1 to all saves or to attack rolls.

Jingasa of Fortunate Solders is also universally great.

can't see how this is more effective than standard issue dex/cha. don't forget that you gain cha bonus to sv throws times/day from your feature and you can gain cha bonus to will vs mind affecting (the ones that you care) for just a feat.

You can get cha instead of wis to compulsion/charms with a trait.

You can also get 1 reroll and +4 vs fear with 1 feat.

So i prefer p.e. to spend 2 feats on the above and start with 3 panache points, than spend 2 feats to get 4 panache poinds and still have worse saves.

i don't think that swashbuckler needs any higher than 10, even 8 wis, to be pretty good vs mind affecting.

plus TWO-HANDER?????
you lose your main source of damage, precise strike, which is your level in damage. i doubt you can top that with just 0.5x str and 0.5 PA


Arcane Strike is a pretty good feat... But Swashbucklers already have too much going for their swift/immediate actions (which is the main reason why Charmed Life doesn't really compensate for the class awful saves).

I'd put some emphasis on boosting Fort/Will saves. Those tend to become very common and very deadly by 8th level or so, and there is a pretty good chance that Charmed Life won't help...

Hopefully the Swashbuckler won't use Parry & Riposte in the same round that some enemy casters forces him to make a save.... And hopefully he won't have to make more than 2~4 saves a day. :/

shroudb wrote:

plus TWO-HANDER?????

you lose your main source of damage, precise strike, which is your level in damage. i doubt you can top that with just 0.5x str and 0.5 PA

Grab a 1-handed weapon... Use it with both hands. TA-DAAA!!!


Lemmy wrote:

Arcane Strike is a pretty good feat... But Swashbucklers already have too much going for their swift/immediate actions (which is the main reason why Charmed Life doesn't really compensate for the class awful saves).

I'd put some emphasis on boosting Fort/Will saves. Those tend to become very common and very deadly by 8th level or so, and there is a pretty good chance that Charmed Life won't help...

Hopefully the Swashbuckler won't use Parry & Riposte in the same round that some enemy casters forces him to make a save.... And hopefully he won't have to make more than 2~4 saves a day. :/

steadfast personality, irrepresable and battle cry (if you want overkill) are on 100% of the time and they protect you vs mind affecting much better than a high (14?) wis would.

also you have to remember:
Opportune parry is NOT an immediate action. Counterattacking while doing it is. So just don't counterattack when against a group that has casters or vs monsters with poison and such

Lemmy wrote:


shroudb wrote:

plus TWO-HANDER?????

you lose your main source of damage, precise strike, which is your level in damage. i doubt you can top that with just 0.5x str and 0.5 PA
Grab a 1-handed weapon... Use it with both hands. TA-DAAA!!!

the ONLY eligible weapons for that are:

heavy pick
trident

ALL crit only on natural 20.

you will have to pick up slashing grace to pick more weapons. and then you lose the only + of a str build (the free feat)


Lemmy wrote:

Arcane Strike is a pretty good feat... But Swashbucklers already have too much going for their swift/immediate actions (which is the main reason why Charmed Life doesn't really compensate for the class awful saves).

I'd put some emphasis on boosting Fort/Will saves. Those tend to become very common and very deadly by 8th level or so, and there is a pretty good chance that Charmed Life won't help...

Hopefully the Swashbuckler won't use Parry & Riposte in the same round that some enemy casters forces him to make a save.... And hopefully he won't have to make more than 2~4 saves a day. :/

Yeah, personally, I always tend to look at half elves as blue when it comes to full martials with bad will saves.

A racial trait with the same effect as iron will, and can stack with iron will? Just a bit of tweaking (drop str to 13 and raise wis to 12, grab a +1 will trait, etc) makes it possible for a fighter to make a standard wizard look bad by passing more will saves.

Plus, half elf swashbucklers are at least a 'thing'. If it isn't Indigo Montoya and/or a pirate, then it is probably going to be some degree of elf (And those tend to all get stacked together). I would probably get less looks than if I tried to send out a half elf brawler archetype fighter wielding a bayonet.....


shroudb wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

Arcane Strike is a pretty good feat... But Swashbucklers already have too much going for their swift/immediate actions (which is the main reason why Charmed Life doesn't really compensate for the class awful saves).

I'd put some emphasis on boosting Fort/Will saves. Those tend to become very common and very deadly by 8th level or so, and there is a pretty good chance that Charmed Life won't help...

Hopefully the Swashbuckler won't use Parry & Riposte in the same round that some enemy casters forces him to make a save.... And hopefully he won't have to make more than 2~4 saves a day. :/

steadfast personality, irrepresable and battle cry (if you want overkill) are on 100% of the time and they protect you vs mind affecting much better than a high (14?) will would.

also you have to remember:
Opportune parry is NOT an immediate action. Counterattacking while doing it is. So just don't counterattack when against a group that has casters or vs monsters with poison and such

You'll notice that I never said that was the only way... or even the best way to build a Swashbuckler. I simply said it's mechanically viable, and I stand by that claim.

The only mistake I made was saying "grabbing a 2-handed weapon" instead of "using a 1-handed piercing weapon 2-handed", which was just a small typo.

Funnily enough, monsters with poison are probably one of the main reasons why Charmed Life sucks. (And casters and monsters with dangerous SLAs are really freaking common by mid levels).

Still... I have no dog in this fight, all I did was to mention a possible build. I simply don't care enough to keep discussing builds with you.


Lemmy wrote:
shroudb wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

Arcane Strike is a pretty good feat... But Swashbucklers already have too much going for their swift/immediate actions (which is the main reason why Charmed Life doesn't really compensate for the class awful saves).

I'd put some emphasis on boosting Fort/Will saves. Those tend to become very common and very deadly by 8th level or so, and there is a pretty good chance that Charmed Life won't help...

Hopefully the Swashbuckler won't use Parry & Riposte in the same round that some enemy casters forces him to make a save.... And hopefully he won't have to make more than 2~4 saves a day. :/

steadfast personality, irrepresable and battle cry (if you want overkill) are on 100% of the time and they protect you vs mind affecting much better than a high (14?) will would.

also you have to remember:
Opportune parry is NOT an immediate action. Counterattacking while doing it is. So just don't counterattack when against a group that has casters or vs monsters with poison and such

You'll notice that I never said that was the only way... or even the best way to build a Swashbuckler. I simply said it's mechanically viable, and I stand by that claim.

The only mistake I made was saying "grabbing a 2-handed weapon" instead of "using a 1-handed piercing weapon 2-handed", which was just a small typo.

Funnily enough, monsters with poison are probably one of the main reasons why Charmed Life sucks. (And casters and monsters with dangerous SLAs are really freaking common by mid levels).

Still... I have no dog in this fight, all I did was to mention a possible build. I simply don't care enough to keep discussing builds with you.

?

i don't see it as a fight, i just disagreed with you.
i don't think it is good to drop cha for more wis, that's all, sorry if you got the wrong impression.


shroudb wrote:

?

i don't see it as a fight, i just disagreed with you.
i don't think it is good to drop cha for more wis, that's all, sorry if you got the wrong impression.

By "fight", I mean discussion. I didn't mean in "we are fighting, then I'll just leave to avoid further trouble" sense, I simply meant "Eh... I don't really care about this discussion or the class it's about, so whatever..."

shroudb wrote:

the ONLY eligible weapons for that are:

heavy pick
trident

ALL crit only on natural 20.

you will have to pick up slashing grace to pick more weapons. and then you lose the only + of a str build (the free feat)

Also: 1.5x attribute to damage rolls and increased Power Attack benefit. Also allows for Cornugon Smash, which is a really good and really cool feat (and it doesn't sacrifice any action economy).


Lemmy wrote:
shroudb wrote:

?

i don't see it as a fight, i just disagreed with you.
i don't think it is good to drop cha for more wis, that's all, sorry if you got the wrong impression.

By "fight", I mean discussion. I didn't mean in "we are fighting, then I'll just leave to avoid further trouble" sense, I simply meant "Eh... I don't really care about this discussion or the class it's about, so whatever..."

shroudb wrote:

the ONLY eligible weapons for that are:

heavy pick
trident

ALL crit only on natural 20.

you will have to pick up slashing grace to pick more weapons. and then you lose the only + of a str build (the free feat)

Also: 1.5x attribute to damage rolls and increased Power Attack benefit. Also allows for Cornugon Smash, which is a really good and really cool feat (and it doesn't sacrifice any action economy).

the thing is... what would you gain in the end from the swashbuckler?

if you are not using parry much (due to less aoo and less panache), if you are not using intimidate from swashbuckler.
if you do not regain panache as easily
if you don't get your cha to sv throws (because you have no cha)
and etc.

apart from +lvl damage that doesn't multiply on crits, is there a point compaired to say.. a barbarian? or a vanilla fighter?


Your section on weapons does not mention the Saw-toothed Sabre. They are finessible. But they are considered light in the off-hand for the purpose of twf. This means that after slashing grace you have dex to damage both hands.


shroudb wrote:

the thing is... what would you gain in the end from the swashbuckler?

if you are not using parry much (due to less aoo and less panache), if you are not using intimidate from swashbuckler.

Dex 14 is still very affordable. And belts will increase it further.

shroudb wrote:
if you do not regain panache as easily

Not necessarily true, if you use Slashing Grace.

shroudb wrote:

if you don't get your cha to sv throws (because you have no cha)

and etc.

apart from +lvl damage that doesn't multiply on crits, is there a point compaired to say.. a barbarian? or a vanilla fighter?

Honestly... I think the Urban Barbarian is overall a better Dex-based combatant. Same goes for Daring Champion Cavalier and Dawnflower Dervish Bard. Swashbuckler 1/Urban Barbarian X is my favorite duelist build.

Over a Fighter? Well... Being able to do something (anything) other than say "I full attack" over and over again is a big plus in my book.

Anyway, like I said, all i did was mention a viable Swashbuckler build. I never said it's the only way (or the right way) to do it. This being a class build, I think it should mention as many viable builds as reasonably feasible.


Lemmy wrote:


Over a Fighter? Well... Being able to do something (anything) other than say "I full attack" over and over again is a big plus in my book.

i loled ^^

Lemmy wrote:


Anyway, like I said, all i did was mention a viable Swashbuckler build. I never said it's the only way (or the right way) to do it. This being a class build, I think it should mention as many viable builds as reasonably feasible.

yeah, having build options is cool in a guide.

maybe i was too invested in having a pure dex/cha class introduced and this is why i'm set in my mind that it's kinda optimal to play him that way.

It is just, that while str/con may be buildable, it would require much more thought/planning/effort than straight up dex/cha (with maybe 13str for PA) and as such, for a "new" class maybe it is dangerous (new players trying it and being disappointed and stuff).

I dislike urban barbarian with a passion (thematically, not mechanically) so i never consider him for any of my builds :D


Eltacolibre wrote:
What about the inevitable comparison with the daring champion cavalier archetype? I mean...Daring champion is a ridiculously good archetype right now for swashbuckler type of characters.

And the Magus for that matter, if you want to be a pocket Swash who casts.

On the guide itself:

-I would be leery about mentioning that a race like Tiefling qualifies for Human FCB. I would certainly not allow a player to do that.

-Inspired Blade really shouldn't be any more MAD than a regular Swash. You just drop Cha for Int.

-Musketeer is at least Green in my book. You pick up a decent ranged option pretty freely; Dodging Panache is helpful but unless you're abusing it with Lunge I can't see it being useful all the time.

-On a related note, if you do find yourself up against a lot of full-attackers all the time because the party tank is off his game, Lunge is awesome. You stand 10' back, Lunge the other guy. His turn he 5' steps up, attacks, you Dodging Panache out of the way.

-Until we get a firm ruling on the Signature Deed thing, the RAW is a no and that should probably be noted in a less insulting fashion. Is it kind of stupid? Yes. Is it still the rules? Yes.

-It is worth noting that the Evangelist isn't full-BAB, so you're not quite giving up nothing.


you can be a pretty decent tank, dodging panache early on and parry later on alongside dex/light armor/buckler/dodge from class.

a tank build could be cool in that aspect. you even have high cha for easy intimidate/antagonize.

can also go for osulyth guile along side your enhanced fighting defensive deed

the only thing that really hurts you are fort saves (will can be worked upon easily)


shroudb wrote:
maybe i was too invested in having a pure dex/cha class introduced and this is why i'm set in my mind that it's kinda optimal to play him that way.

Understandable... To be honest, the Swashbuckler was the class I was most excited for when I heard about the ACG. It disappointed me greatly, though...

shroudb wrote:
It is just, that while str/con may be buildable, it would require much more thought/planning/effort than straight up dex/cha (with maybe 13str for PA) and as such, for a "new" class maybe it is dangerous (new players trying it and being disappointed and stuff).

Which is precisely why it should be in a guide. Even it's only presented as an alternative build.

shroudb wrote:
I dislike urban barbarian with a passion (thematically, not mechanically) so i never consider him for any of my builds :D

I don't really care about official fluff... I'm of the opinion that while class descriptions are nice suggestions, they are nothing more than that. In the end, a character's fluff is what the player makes of it through roleplay. e.g.: Foxy Slicey here would never think of herself as a "Barbarian" and would most likely be deeply offended if someone said that's what she is.


Quick Swashbuckler 1/Urban Barbarian 10 build

Can easily be built "organically" from level 1 (although you'll probably be relying on rapiers and/or bows for the first 2 levels), and with minor adjustments, can do whatever you want your Swashbuckler to do.

Foxy Slicey 2.0:
Foxy Slicey 2.0.
Halfling barbarian (invulnerable rager, urban barbarian) 10/swashbuckler 1
NG Small humanoid (halfling)
Init +8; Senses Perception +18
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 24, touch 18, flat-footed 18 (+6 armor, +6 Dex, +1 size, +1 deflection)
hp 108 (10d12+1d10+33)
Fort +16, Ref +17, Will +12; +2 vs. fear immune possession and mind-control (as per Protection From Evil)
DR 10/lethal, 5/—; Resist fire 2, extreme endurance
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee slayer of fools (+3 silversheen scimitar) +21/+16/+11 (1d4+9/15-20) and
. . +1 silversheen scimitar +19/+14/+9 (1d4+7/15-20)
Ranged +1 adaptive composite longbow +19/+14/+9 (1d6+1/×3)
Special Attacks deed: opportune parry and riposte, panache, rage (25 rounds/day), rage power (beast totem, beast totem, greater, beast totem, lesser, clear mind, ghost rager, no escape, superstition +4)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 22, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 10
Base Atk +11; CMB +10; CMD 27
Feats Combat Reflexes, Dervish Dance[ISWG], Extra Rage Power[APG], Extra Rage Power[APG], Improved Critical (scimitar), Raging Vitality[APG]
Traits indomitable faith, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +20, Bluff +14, Diplomacy +11, Intimidate +14, Perception +18, Perform (dance) +5, Sense Motive +16, Survival +2 (+4 to avoid becoming lost); Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, deed: derring-do
Languages Common, Halfling, Sylvan
SQ controlled rage, crowd control, deed: dodging panache, swashbuckler finesse
Other Gear +2 mithral chain shirt, slayer of fools (+3 silversheen scimitar), +1 adaptive composite longbow, +1 silversheen scimitar, agile amulet of mighty fists, belt of physical might +2 (Dex, Con), cloak of resistance +4, feather step slippers, headband of inspired wisdom +2, clear spindle ioun stone, cracked pale green prism ioun stone (saves), plume of panache (4), ring of protection +1, wayfinder, 1,470 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Beast Totem +3 (Su) +3 to Natural Armor while raging.
Beast Totem, Greater (Su) Pounce ability and 1d8 claw damage while raging
Beast Totem, Lesser (Su) Gain 2 d6 claw attacks while raging
Clear Mind (1/rage) (Ex) Reroll a failed Will save while raging.
Combat Reflexes (7 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Controlled Rage (Ex) May gain lesser bonus split as desired, but without normal drawbacks.
Crowd Control +5 (Ex) If 2+ foes adjacent, +1 to hit & AC. Unslowed by crowds & bonus to intimidate.
Damage Reduction (10/lethal) You have Damage Reduction against non-lethal damage
Damage Reduction (5/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Deed: Derring-Do (+6 extra dice) (Ex) Use 1 panache, +1d6 to Escape Artist, Fly, Ride, or Swim check. On a 6, roll another die.
Deed: Dodging Panache (Ex) As an imm action when attacked, use 1 panache to move 5 ft. and gain +0 to AC vs. attack.
Deed: Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex) 1 panache and 1 AoO to attempt to parry a melee attack, then counterattack.
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Energy Resistance, Fire (2) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Extreme Endurance (Fire) (Ex) At 3rd level, the invulnerable rager is inured to either hot or cold climate effects (choose one) as if using endure elements. In addition, the barbarian gains 1 point of fire or cold resistance for every three levels beyond 3rd. This ability
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Feather step slippers Ignore difficult terrain as though affected by feather step.
Ghost Rager (Su) While raging, the barbarian deals normal damage to incorporeal creatures even when using nonmagical weapons. She also gains a morale bonus to touch AC equal to her saving throw bonus from her superstition rage power. A barbarian must have the superst
Ioun stone (clear spindle) Sustains bearer without food or water.
No Escape (1/rage) (Ex) Keep up with a foe who tries to withdraw.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Plume of panache (1/day) Provides 1 panache point for used for a deed.
Rage (25 rounds/day) (Ex) +4 Str, +4 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Raging Vitality +2 CON while raging, Rage does not end if you become unconscious.
Superstition +4 (Ex) While raging, gain bonus to save vs magic, but must resist all spells, even allies'.
Swashbuckler Finesse At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma score in place of Intelligence as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having
Wayfinder (empty) A small magical device patterned off ancient relics of the Azlanti, a wayfinder is typically made from silver and bears gold accents. With a command word, you can use a wayfinder to shine (as the light spell). The wayfinder also acts as a nonmagical (magnetic) compass, granting you a +2 circumstance bonus on Survival checks to avoid becoming lost. All wayfinders include a small indentation designed to hold a single ioun stone.

Foxy Slicey 2.0 - Controlled Rage:
Foxy Slicey 2.0.
Halfling barbarian (invulnerable rager, urban barbarian) 10/swashbuckler 1
NG Small humanoid (halfling)
Init +10; Senses Perception +18
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 27, touch 22, flat-footed 21 (+6 armor, +6 Dex, +1 size, +3 natural, +1 deflection)
hp 130 (10d12+1d10+55)
Fort +18, Ref +19, Will +12; +2 vs. fear, +4 morale bonus vs. spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities but must resist all spells, even allies' immune possession and mind-control (as per Protection From Evil)
DR 10/lethal, 5/—; Resist fire 2, extreme endurance
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee slayer of fools (+3 silversheen scimitar) +23/+18/+13 (1d4+11/15-20) and
. . +1 silversheen scimitar +21/+16/+11 (1d4+9/15-20) and
. . 2 claws +7 (1d6/×3)
Ranged +1 adaptive composite longbow +21/+16/+11 (1d6+1/×3)
Special Attacks deed: opportune parry and riposte, panache, pounce, rage (26 rounds/day), rage power (beast totem, beast totem, greater, beast totem, lesser, clear mind, ghost rager, no escape, superstition +4)
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 26, Con 20, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 10
Base Atk +11; CMB +10; CMD 29
Feats Combat Reflexes, Dervish Dance[ISWG], Extra Rage Power[APG], Extra Rage Power[APG], Improved Critical (scimitar), Raging Vitality[APG]
Traits indomitable faith, reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +22, Bluff +14, Diplomacy +11, Intimidate +14, Perception +18, Perform (dance) +5, Sense Motive +16, Survival +2 (+4 to avoid becoming lost); Racial Modifiers +2 Perception, deed: derring-do
Languages Common, Halfling, Sylvan
SQ controlled rage, crowd control, deed: dodging panache, swashbuckler finesse
Other Gear +2 mithral chain shirt, slayer of fools (+3 silversheen scimitar), +1 adaptive composite longbow, +1 silversheen scimitar, agile amulet of mighty fists, belt of physical might +2 (Dex, Con), cloak of resistance +4, feather step slippers, headband of inspired wisdom +2, clear spindle ioun stone, cracked pale green prism ioun stone (saves), plume of panache (4), ring of protection +1, wayfinder, 1,470 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Beast Totem +3 (Su) +3 to Natural Armor while raging.
Beast Totem, Greater (Su) Pounce ability and 1d8 claw damage while raging
Beast Totem, Lesser (Su) Gain 2 d6 claw attacks while raging
Clear Mind (1/rage) (Ex) Reroll a failed Will save while raging.
Combat Reflexes (9 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Controlled Rage (Ex) May gain lesser bonus split as desired, but without normal drawbacks.
Crowd Control +5 (Ex) If 2+ foes adjacent, +1 to hit & AC. Unslowed by crowds & bonus to intimidate.
Damage Reduction (10/lethal) You have Damage Reduction against non-lethal damage
Damage Reduction (5/-) You have Damage Reduction against all attacks.
Deed: Derring-Do (+8 extra dice) (Ex) Use 1 panache, +1d6 to Escape Artist, Fly, Ride, or Swim check. On a 6, roll another die.
Deed: Dodging Panache (Ex) As an imm action when attacked, use 1 panache to move 5 ft. and gain +0 to AC vs. attack.
Deed: Opportune Parry and Riposte (Ex) 1 panache and 1 AoO to attempt to parry a melee attack, then counterattack.
Dervish Dance Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier with scimitar
Energy Resistance, Fire (2) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Extreme Endurance (Fire) (Ex) At 3rd level, the invulnerable rager is inured to either hot or cold climate effects (choose one) as if using endure elements. In addition, the barbarian gains 1 point of fire or cold resistance for every three levels beyond 3rd. This ability
Fearless +2 racial bonus vs Fear saves.
Feather step slippers Ignore difficult terrain as though affected by feather step.
Ghost Rager (Su) While raging, the barbarian deals normal damage to incorporeal creatures even when using nonmagical weapons. She also gains a morale bonus to touch AC equal to her saving throw bonus from her superstition rage power. A barbarian must have the superst
Ioun stone (clear spindle) Sustains bearer without food or water.
No Escape (1/rage) (Ex) Keep up with a foe who tries to withdraw.
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Plume of panache (1/day) Provides 1 panache point for used for a deed.
Pounce (Ex) You can make a full attack as part of a charge.
Rage (26 rounds/day) (Ex) -2 Str, -2 Con, +2 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Raging Vitality +2 CON while raging, Rage does not end if you become unconscious.
Superstition +4 (Ex) While raging, gain bonus to save vs magic, but must resist all spells, even allies'.
Swashbuckler Finesse At 1st level, a swashbuckler gains the benefits of the Weapon Finesse feat with light or one-handed piercing melee weapons, and she can use her Charisma score in place of Intelligence as a prerequisite for combat feats. This ability counts as having
Wayfinder (empty) A small magical device patterned off ancient relics of the Azlanti, a wayfinder is typically made from silver and bears gold accents. With a command word, you can use a wayfinder to shine (as the light spell). The wayfinder also acts as a nonmagical (magnetic) compass, granting you a +2 circumstance bonus on Survival checks to avoid becoming lost. All wayfinders include a small indentation designed to hold a single ioun stone.

Foxy Slicey here has lower damage than most Swashbucklers and Barbarians, but she has great mobility and great defenses.

Full BAB + free Weapon Finesse + Panache (non level-dependent) makes SBs a great dip class... And by Cayden, Plumes of Panache are cheap! Buy one and switch for another after you sue it... Charisma? Who needs that?

- - - - -

That reminds me, there should probably be a session dedicated to multiclassing possibilities.


kestral287 wrote:
-Inspired Blade really shouldn't be any more MAD than a regular Swash. You just drop Cha for Int.

I agree that Inspired Blade doesn't need to be more MAD than a regular swash, but that's because the Inspired Blade does not need Int. All of the Int-based bonuses are "(minimum 1)", so it doesn't matter whether you have 7 Int or 13 Int, you'll get the same benefit from Inspired Blade (including free Weapon Focus and then Rapier Training).

I think dumping Cha is a bad idea because then you lose Charmed Life. It also prevents you from using Steadfast Personality or Irrepressible to buff that Will save.

The Inspired Blade I'm playing now has 10 Int and 16 Cha and he's doing great. You just don't need Int even as an Inspired Blade.


RumpinRufus wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
-Inspired Blade really shouldn't be any more MAD than a regular Swash. You just drop Cha for Int.

I agree that Inspired Blade doesn't need to be more MAD than a regular swash, but that's because the Inspired Blade does not need Int. All of the Int-based bonuses are "(minimum 1)", so it doesn't matter whether you have 7 Int or 13 Int, you'll get the same benefit from Inspired Blade (including free Weapon Focus and then Rapier Training).

I think dumping Cha is a bad idea because then you lose Charmed Life. It also prevents you from using Steadfast Personality or Irrepressible to buff that Will save.

The Inspired Blade I'm playing now has 10 Int and 16 Cha and he's doing great. You just don't need Int even as an Inspired Blade.

I'm playing a 6th level Inspired Blade at the moment in a Way of the Wicked game and she has 16 CHA and 14 INT. Her DEX is at 18 too. She's tanking more than the straight-up Fighter at the moment and doing huge damage. The additional INT means she's filling the "knowledge gap" of the other characters, as well as getting the bonus to panache.


Everything taken into account, and the guide updated to reflect it! I don't know how I managed to forget about Deadly Aim, having built a lot of ranged characters...

Oh, and the Tiefling thing is due to Half-Elves and Half-Orcs being allowed to take Race-related items from either of their forebears; you're right, RAW, that FAQ doesn't apply to any races besides those two, but RAI and common sense is less clear. Tieflings are, after all, half-human by default, exactly the same as those two races. Added a note about asking your GM, though. Always a safe bet.

I might bring up comparisons to the Daring Champion, Magus(especially the Kensai), and Dawnflower Dervish Bard later, when I have more time.


Thrice wrote:

Everything taken into account, and the guide updated to reflect it! I don't know how I managed to forget about Deadly Aim, having built a lot of ranged characters...

Oh, and the Tiefling thing is due to Half-Elves and Half-Orcs being allowed to take Race-related items from either of their forebears; you're right, RAW, that FAQ doesn't apply to any races besides those two, but RAI and common sense is less clear. Tieflings are, after all, half-human by default, exactly the same as those two races. Added a note about asking your GM, though. Always a safe bet.

I might bring up comparisons to the Daring Champion, Magus(especially the Kensai), and Dawnflower Dervish Bard later, when I have more time.

My point is more that if you're building a guide, you should be very clear about what the RAW is. You might disagree with it. You might be thinking something that's not RAW really should be RAW and would be cooler that way, or make more sense that way, or that some aspect of RAW is really stupid.

But it is the RAW. It needs to be presented fairly as what it is, and then you can add a "but you can talk to your GM about X". A new player (the kind who might look up a guide to a class) might read what you have listed on the Tiefling and think that Tieflings counting as human is a common thing... when it really isn't, at all. This is certainly the first I've heard of it.

Though personally, I'd say that the fact that the Tiefling's counterpart the Aasimar have to take a racial trait to count as humans for some things is pretty clear in saying that RAI, those two don't count as humans normally.

And, my last note on the Tiefling: I'd keep the resistances and burn a feat for +2 Natural Armor via Armor of the Pit. Feat's awesome for all those light/no armor builds that Tieflings tend towards.

Worth noting on Eldritch Heritage you have Cross- and Wild- blooding mixed up, and there are a fair few typos sprinkled through it.


Thrice wrote:

Everything taken into account, and the guide updated to reflect it! I don't know how I managed to forget about Deadly Aim, having built a lot of ranged characters...

Oh, and the Tiefling thing is due to Half-Elves and Half-Orcs being allowed to take Race-related items from either of their forebears; you're right, RAW, that FAQ doesn't apply to any races besides those two, but RAI and common sense is less clear. Tieflings are, after all, half-human by default, exactly the same as those two races. Added a note about asking your GM, though. Always a safe bet.

I'm pretty sure Tieflings don't count, since they have no racial trait saying they count as humans for all effects, like half-elves and half-orcs do. Hell! Tieflings don't even count as humanoid!

The trick does work on Aasimars with the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait, though. So there is that.

Additionally, I'd strongly consider putting Half-Orcs as blue. Between getting a +1 to all saving throws (a huge bonus for SBs!), darkvision, access to scent with a feat and access to bite attack with a trait (which deals Piercing damage, BTW), Half-Orcs are at least as good a choice as Humans and Half=Elves.


You need to attack with a defending weapon to use the defending property. Otherwise everyone would have +5 defending armor spikes (or similar) and get a free 5 AC all the time.

FAQ link

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber Subscriber

Yeah Bob x3, a lot of people seem to miss that FAQ when giving build advice.


All right, amended again! Dunno how I mistyped Wild-Blooded. And thanks for that FAQ link, I'd heard that before, but had no idea if it was official or not.

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