Anaconda's Coils, Final Embrace and Constrict


Rules Questions

Silver Crusade

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Bruno, a handsome and beautiful tetori, need wise friends to grapple interaction between an item and feat:

Referenced items:
Anaconda's Coils wrote:
The wearer gains a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength and a +2 competence bonus on grapple combat maneuver checks. Treat the enhancement bonus to Strength as temporary ability bonus for the first 24 hours the belt is worn. In addition, the belt grants the wearer the constrict ability for 1d6 points of damage plus the wearer’s Strength modifier.
Constrict wrote:
A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). The amount of damage is given in the creature's entry and is typically equal to the amount of damage caused by the creature's melee attack.
Final Embrace wrote:

Prerequisite: Str 13, Int 3; naga, serpentfolk, or creature that has the constrict special attack; base attack bonus +3.

Benefit: You gain the constrict and grab special attacks. Your constrict attack deals damage equal to your unarmed strike or primary natural weapon melee attack. Further, you can grab and constrict opponents up to your size.

Normal: You can grab and constrict creatures one size smaller than you.

(empheses mine)

You wear the Anaconda's Coils.
You gain Constrict (1d6+STR).
You pick up Final Embrace.
You gain Grab.
You gain Constrict (again, but now equal to unarmed damage).

Issue:
Final Embrace refers to a constrict restriction that does not exist ("Normal: You can grab and constrict creatures one size smaller than you.") By RAW, constrict has no size limit. (Unrelated: Grab may or may not have been stealth changed, please FAQ)

How to interpret these interactions?

A) As Anaconda's Coils refer to a restriction that does not exist, you can constrict for your Unarmed Damage to any size target.

B) You can constrict for Unarmed Damage to a target EQUAL to your size and can constrict for 1d6+STR on targets larger than you.


I think I would go with B, depending on which does more damage? Anaconda's Coils has no size limit, which is the normal situation, so while your Grab is restricted to creatures your size or smaller (which is normal, the only benefit you get from this feat is access to a grab and a CMB boost due to grab), constrict from the coils is not. The constrict from the feat is restricted, however, so if your unarmed damage is higher than the 1d6 from coils and the enemy is your size or smaller, you should use the FE constrict. Anything bigger would use the AC constrict.

It's kinda poorly worded. The feat really should be changed to reflect errata, and possibly to take into account things that can already constrict.
- The constrict should not be limited by size, as normal.
- The feat should say it simply gives a grab, since grab normally works as per the "benefit" section.
- The feat could possibly enhance constrict if you already have it. That would get rid of the questions about what happens if I qualify with AC, get the feat, therefor gaining a constrict, then remove AC.


Bruno, I also think B. Whatever the general rules about Grab and Constrict, The specific rules about Final Embrace trump the general, even if Final Embrace's description of "Normal" is no longer current. Following your chain of clicks, though, was interesting. I'd also say new trumps old. I'd say they changed the rule in Bestiary 2, then changed it back in Bestiary 4.

I have another question. I've been asking this question a lot, but nobody's offered an answer. I hope this isn't derailing, but my question is about Final Embrace.

When you take Final Embrace, WHAT gets Grab? Constrict is not associated with any one Natural Attack: if you make a successful Grapple check, you get to do your damage.

But Grab generally IS associated with particular attacks, an Alchemist's Tentacle, a crab's pincers, a bear's claws. But Final Embrace doesn't say "select one natural attack." It just says you get Grab and Constrict. What if you have more than 1 natural attack? Does that mean that all of your natural attacks get Grab? Or did Paizo assume that you would know that Grab usually applies to 1 natural attack, when you take FE, you apply it to only one?

What do you think?

You see, I was envisioning a White Haired Witch maybe with some levels in Monk taking Improved Natural Attack, Feral Combat Training, maybe Snake Fang, wearing spiked armor and taking Final Embrace. So she'd get mulitiple attacks of opportunity per round with her hair or some other natural weapon, and with every hit, she'd do her regular damage, Grapple as a Free Action and do her Constrict again, then do her Armor Spike damage, too. And if she was up against somebody who had DR, she'd just Grapple and Tie them Up.

Or some other natural weapon? Why not all of them? How about a Tengu with Claws, a Bite, White Hair, and maybe Mammoth Helm for good measure who takes Final Embrace. How do I get Grab for all those attacks, or did I get Grab for all my Natural Attacks already when I took Final Embrace in the first place?


I am hesitant to answer this because there is much about the Final Embrace line that makes me uncomfortable. If I were to rule it, Grab's description says you need to hit with the indicated attack, which makes me believe you need to specify what attack is the one that gets grab.

I mean, the feat says you just get it, which I suppose means you could apply it to all of your natural attacks. Hell, you could apply it to any attack you make! I, however, think it was meant for one natural attack. There was a thread in which the creator of the feat chimed in, saying the feat was originally made for fighters with serpentine bodies, so I'm guessing it was meant to be for a tail slap or something, but given how it was written, it could be argued either way. "What was meant was X" versus "But that's not how it was written" fights are really up to GMs in the end.

For the witch, I would make you pick claws, bite, or hair.


Even If I could only apply it to the Claws, getting Grab for the Claws and getting Constrict is dynamite enough. I was thinking an Attack of Opportunity build with Snake Fang. For a PFS character, that could easily turn into an extra 5 attacks/round. The Hair has features like Grab, anyway, so already gets most of the benefits. For the Bite and Gore, I guess I could just take Hamatula Strike.

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