Trying to better understand the Skald

[Hmm]

So... Ragesong gives a number of abilities, including +2 Con to allies. The text on Barbarian states that a plus to con increases hitpoints, but that these are not treated as temporary hitpoints and are not used up first.

So... What are these temporary yet not temporary hitpoints used for? The first thing I could think of was that a temporary +2 to con could help with fortitude saves, but I am having trouble thinking of any other advantages to it. I suppose it could delay death if I keep the rage going, and give people a chance to ready clw wands, breath of life and such. Is there anything else?

I'd like to be able to explain it to my PFS table buddies when I offer to let them rage with me.

Hmm

[SlimGauge]

Hmm wrote:

What are these temporary yet not temporary hitpoints used for?

Not dying immediately. If you've burned through all your regular hit points and are now into your hit points from boosted con, you'd better do something about that before Rage song ends. Whatever that thing you do is, it's something you wouldn't have been able to do without that rage song in the first place.

[Hmm]

Okay, it makes sense now. Thanks. I actually like this class better than any of the straight bard archetypes that I've seen, because it kept the best things about being a bard: bardic knowledge and buffing and improved the weapon / fighting options.

Hmm

[Hmm]

Has anyone done some sample skald builds that they would like to share?

It's a seriously MAD class, and I'm trying to figure out how best to balance it.

Hmm

[shroudb]

most people seem to think that picking up extra rage power feat gives that to the ragesong too (needs a faq for that though, else is DMs discretion):

with that in mind (from my answer to a similar thread):

shroudb wrote:

I would probably go with something like:

20point buy, +2race bonus to str
Str17
Dex13
Con12
Int10
Wis8
Chr16

Human or halforc are both good choices.
alternate that gives +1sp is required. (you need plenty of skills)
Grab a reach weapon since your ac is going to be horrible and it's much easier to cast with reach.

You are going to be feat starved, so choose carefully.
Rage powers that I like:
Beast totem line. Party pounce is strong, but it is heavily Dependant on party composition.
OR
Spirit totem line. (1d6+1d8+cha)*allies is nothing to scoff at. More reliable than pounce, easier to activate, but ofc...not pounce.
OR
Lesser Celestial totem. If your party is taking more damage, if you lack tanks, etc. Pair it up with path of glory and at level 4 you have a 2nd lvl spell healing the whole party for 20hp each within 4 rounds. Even at high levels, a 2nd level giving effectively 10+HP regen/round to the party is godly (15/sec at level 10 with greater skalds vigor)

My personal choice is grabbing lesser spirit totem and swapping to lesser celestial if needed (through flexible fury)

You also want superstition and probably witch hunter.
Other good rage powers include:
Reckless abandon
Eater of magic
Raging leaper->raging flier
Strength surge->spell sunder

So since you obviously can't really grab all those then you need a few extra rage power feats. Add the 2vigors, and you are already hard pressed (let alone things like imp init, lingering, battle cry, steadfast personality, etc)

I would personally go with something like: lvl12 skald (fated champion)
Traits: community-minded (awesome for skald), fates favored
Half orc: skilled, familiarity, tattoo, apprentice
Feats:
1:vigor
3:extra rage power, rage powers: lesser spirit totem, superstition
5:extra rage power, rage powers: reckless abandon
6:rage power: witch hunter
7:power attack/rage power:str surge
9:furious focus, rage power:str surge/spell sunder
10: retrain furious focus to greater vigor
11:discordant voice
12: rage power:spell sunder/eater of magic

So you have 5-6 rage powers,grant 1d6 sonic/hit, fast healing 4 and etc.
All your bonuses are morale (add good hope and etc) and raging so: the whole melee party should wield furious+courageous weapons, and most of them apply even after you terminate them with things like saving finale (community minded)

You should probably first cast haste then sing. Second round let song fall (morale bonuses stay) and cast good hope (to not worry about superstition) 3rd round start song again and smack things

All in all you will be granting: +7attack, +2damage, +4str, +4 con, -4ac, fast healing 4, +1d6 on each attack, one extra attack, one extra attack dealing 1d4+YOUR chr, +7sv throws, 1 sv throw reroll+temp HP, 1 spell sunder at +12, +4damage vs creatures with SLA or casters, +5vs fear.
Most of the above are +2 higher with a +2furius courageous weapon

[London Duke]

Why not lingering performance? Does it not work with ragesong?

[Kalvit]

My take on Skald building differs from shroudb's approach in that I don't try to neglect the bardic knowledge portion. That design gives between 4-5 skill ranks at best for the half-orc. I find that unacceptable due to what you'll have to lose out on in the long game. Half-orc should consider Dazzling Display as a feat option, especially since they are better at Intimidation.

Given a similar race, I'd do the following to start things off:

Str 16-17
Dex 10-12
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 14

Traits: Fate's Favored, your choice (Reactionary is always a solid option, and Community-minded may work if you only want morale bonuses to linger)

Half-orc alternate traits: Sacred Tattoo

Assume Fated Champion archetype for maximum effect. With these stats, you should have between 6-7 skill ranks a level to have your knowledge and buff up some needed skills. You might want to consider using the favored class bonus for half-orc skalds, which gives you extra rounds of For this build, I'd make sure to take a rank in Intimidate at every level. This build goes so far into 7th level at best.

Level 1 feat: Skald's Vigor (to set up for the Greater version at level 11 or so)
Level 3 feat: Weapon Focus (go with either a Lucerne Hammer, Glaive, or another reach weapon of your choice)
Level 3 Rage Power: Intimidating Glare, Quick Reflexes (hi extra AoOs!), Superstition, or Knockdown
Level 4 increase: Increase Charisma by 1
Level 5 feat: Dazzling Display
Level 6 Rage Power: choice of one of the unselected powers from level 3, Witch Hunter (if Superstition was chosen), or take a level appropriate Linnorm Death Curse
Level 7 Feat: Power Attack (a bit late, admittedly)

In the case of a human build, we can afford a Strength of 18 with a Dex 10 and Int 12. That would give equivalent skill ranks to the Half-Orc build, but with a definite trade-off in the skills' value for some damage/accuracy. As a human, you can afford to grab Lingering Performance in lieu of taking the Community Minded trait. The Dazzling Display build wouldn't be as potent on a human, so you could grab a few more survivability feats.

[shroudb]

Kalvit wrote:

My take on Skald building differs from shroudb's approach in that I don't try to neglect the bardic knowledge portion. That design gives between 4-5 skill ranks at best for the half-orc. I find that unacceptable due to what you'll have to lose out on in the long game. Half-orc should consider Dazzling Display as a feat option, especially since they are better at Intimidation.

Given a similar race, I'd do the following to start things off:

Str 16-17
Dex 10-12
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 14

Traits: Fate's Favored, your choice (Reactionary is always a solid option, and Community-minded may work if you only want morale bonuses to linger)

Half-orc alternate traits: Sacred Tattoo

Assume Fated Champion archetype for maximum effect. With these stats, you should have between 6-7 skill ranks a level to have your knowledge and buff up some needed skills. You might want to consider using the favored class bonus for half-orc skalds, which gives you extra rounds of For this build, I'd make sure to take a rank in Intimidate at every level. This build goes so far into 7th level at best.

Level 1 feat: Skald's Vigor (to set up for the Greater version at level 11 or so)
Level 3 feat: Weapon Focus (go with either a Lucerne Hammer, Glaive, or another reach weapon of your choice)
Level 3 Rage Power: Intimidating Glare, Quick Reflexes (hi extra AoOs!), Superstition, or Knockdown
Level 4 increase: Increase Charisma by 1
Level 5 feat: Dazzling Display
Level 6 Rage Power: choice of one of the unselected powers from level 3, Witch Hunter (if Superstition was chosen), or take a level appropriate Linnorm Death Curse
Level 7 Feat: Power Attack (a bit late, admittedly)

In the case of a human build, we can afford a Strength of 18 with a Dex 10 and Int 12. That would give equivalent skill ranks to the Half-Orc build, but with a definite trade-off in the skills' value for some damage/accuracy. As a human, you can afford to grab Lingering Performance in lieu of taking the Community Minded trait....

My build actually had 6. Skills/level

2 of them should be performs, oratory+your choice
Perc, umd, spellcraft+1knowledge/level.
Certainly not ideal, but I'm spoiled by always having either 1inq or 1 wiz for monster identification, so my bards usually cover the less used knowledge's (geography, nobility, history,local, engineering, etc)

But if you want to be one man show, just drop a point from str and from Dex and you can easily get a +2 on it.
That with a headband can bring you up to all big "6" knowleges/level

As far as lingering: don't do it. At least if you have superstition.
Community minded will let people keep the numeric bonuses of your songs (all of the morale)
Lingering will let them keep all the bonuses AND drawbacks. You really don't like superstition to be on when you shave to cast saving finale or healing or buffs.

[Pendagast]

My current Skald for Iron Gods:

Human Dual Talent.
20 pt build:

Str 16
Dex 15
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 14

HP 14
AC 18 (chain shirt plus dex and shield)

Bear in mind, unlike the barbarian, the skalds rage song isn't based on Con…. so you don't need a high con like a barbarian.

you're not likely to be a charm/control specialist so you don't need a high cha like a bard.

with a little of both, 16 or more in those stats isn't imperative.

[Hmm]

Community-minded is a very interesting trait! That could really eke out the benefits from a bardic performance / rage song. Unfortunately, we don't have the book, and my boyfriend and I have spent enough on Paizo this month. There's got to be limits on the cash outlay for this sort of thing.

I should probably give you guys the inspiration for this to so that maybe you could help me with the build better. I was thinking about making up the characters of Jake and Elwood Blues. Initially, my concept was two half-orc inquisitors of Cayden Cailean. "We're getting the band back together!" They want you to have a good time. Or else.

Now I'm thinking one inquisitor, one skald -- in part to get a little more versatility with abilities, spell and skill lists -- but I'll likely build Jake both ways (as a skald and as conversion inquisition inquisitor) to see which way works best. The two of us would split the skill list, doubling up on only a few things.

Jake would be the Skald. If you recall, Jake was an amazing liar and did most of the talking in social situations. I was thinking perform: strings to push up bluff and diplomacy. I'd actually like to get a charisma slightly higher than 14.

My partner (playing Elwood) would be the Inquisitor. Sense Motive and Intimidate will likely be his strengths. I'll happily get Intimidate to aid him and I figure that between the two of us, we could cover most of the oddball knowledge skills.

Pendagast wrote:

you're not likely to be a charm/control specialist so you don't need a high cha like a bard.

That seems odd, since Skalds appear (at least as far as spells are concerned) to be near identical to Bards.)

Skilled is an interesting option for half-orcs but I don't think that I want to lose dark vision if my partner is keeping his. I do want int at least 14, and Str at least 14. I'm willing to let dex be a little lower -- 10 since I would primarily be doing melee. I'd like Wis to be non-negative to avoid having horrid will saves if I could, but if I have to dump somewhere, I think it would be wis.

Would STR 14, DEX 10, CON 14, Int 14, WIS 10 and CHA 16 be that bad? Both Str and Con would be pumped with rage song most battles.

What I was thinking for traits was:
Fate's Fortune and Reactionary.

For alternate half-orc racial: sacred tattoo, and city-raised (since Skald's get all martial weapons anyway, and that +2 to knowledge local would at least get me something.)

Hmm

[Hmm]

BTW, thank you all for the rage power advice. I hadn't even looked at the rage powers... They're fascinating!

[Hmm]

Some of these rage powers look pretty complicated. I'm worried that in PFS they might cause quite a bit of math at the table, causing a need to slow down play. How have those of you who have played Skalds handled this?

Hmm

[AndIMustMask]

personally i keep buff cards handy for my bonuses. casting good hope? bardic performance? (in the skalds case) rage or rage powers to hand out? pass some cards around. all the recipient has to do is add the bonuses to their character.

a rage card might read:

- - - - -

Rage [morale]

+4 str (+2 attack and damage, or +3 damage for 2-handed attacks)
+4 con (+2 hp per level, +2 fortitude saves)
+2 will saves
-2 AC
cannot cast spells or use skill checks that require intense concentration (DM leeway)

"HULK SMASH!"

- - - - -

or something.

[Hmm]

Do you make those buff cards yourself?

Hmm

[AndIMustMask]

I do, actually. then again i'm also the type to have a physical notebook as my character's spellbook so i dont need to hog the various books if other players need them.

not saying they've gotta be anything fancy--a pack of cue cards would work easily, and they're super cheap.

they're great for saving time, and show that you're keeping on top of your character stuff (an unprepared player using a caster eats time like nothing else).