Seltyiel Iconic Magus Questions


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


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Seltyiel started out as an iconic multi-class fighter/sorcerer/eldritch knight or fighter/wizard/eldritch knight, as I recall. He was Lawful Evil, and a half-elf.

Now he's the iconic Magus. His back story seems much the same, but the only reference I've found to his alignment was on the Pathfinder Wiki, where it says he's a Lawful Neutral Dhampir.

What's the official word? LE or LN? Half-elf or Dhampir? Or "we don't care, you pick it"?

I suppose it depends on what race his biological father, Lairsaph, is, elf, or vampire. The wiki doesn't have an entry for him specifically, but Seltyiel's second back story says he's a vampire. while the first says he's an elf.

Could Lairsaph be both elf and vampire? I suppose that would make Seltyiel a Dhampir.

What about the undead thing? Is Seltyiel undead? That would be weird.

I suppose he could be Dayborn. Although there's no mention of priests attending his birth, one could argue that as his mother was noble, priests, or at least a priest, would be there. No mention whether he was born in daylight or at night in either backstory, although I suppose I might have missed it.

So many questions. :-)

Paizo Employee Creative Director

The Pathfinder Wiki is wrong.

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:
The Pathfinder Wiki is wrong.

James, it looks like someone must have just edited the entry. This is what is the summary now.

Race/Species Half-elf
Gender Male
Class Magus
Alignment Lawful evil
Homeland Cheliax
Deity Asmodeus
Born 4679 AR


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I suppose that happens when you have a wiki accessible to anyone who wants to edit it.

BTW, what about the wiki entry is wrong? Or put it another way, what's right, if anything?


he's a half elf, always has been….

Seltyiels write up in the back of APs (when they still used to do that)

was he started out a fighter at level one, then picked up levels of wizard, and then Prc'd into EK.

When Magus was released, he also became the Iconic Magus.

Since they stopped doing write ups of him in the back of APs, I've never seen him written up as a magus. So he's just assigned the stewardship of representing the class.


William Ronald wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The Pathfinder Wiki is wrong.
James, it looks like someone must have just edited the entry. This is what is the summary now.

Looking at the history on that Wiki, someone appears to keep going in and adding the Dhampir stuff (along with some other erroneous information), prompting a revision to the previous information, ad hominem.

Someone just reverted the entry today yesterday, possibly in response to this thread pointing out the error.

Scarab Sages

2 people marked this as a favorite.

If someone is continually inserting wrong information, and it's clear that they are doing so deliberately, since his origin can easily be checked in the APs and Paizo blog, do the site staff have the tools to block that person from making further changes, or even from viewing the site?

It's likely to be some a%*$#~$, trying to twist his GM's arm into allowing him to play a dhamphir, because "Look, it's core. One of the iconics is one!"
But to me, that behaviour is vandalism, regardless of their reasons.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Ministry of Information wishes to remind you not to be confused by the lies of Oceania. Seltyiel is, and always has been a magus, never an Eldritch Knight. Any writing to the contrary is badwrongthink and does not exist.

All Hail Big Sister!


Well that or he realized Eldritch Knight was not really the best choice and retrained into a Magus.


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Hm. Which AP was Seltyiel in? Carrion Crown? (For some reason, I've got that in my head).


The French wiki has Seltyiel as a dhampir, complete with a full character sheet for him as a summoner/magus. I wonder if that's where it's coming from.

The backstory is a translation of Wes's original blog with a few emendations: Phiaura Bhrostra is now a half-elf and Lairsaph, a vampire elf sorcerer.


Ed Reppert wrote:
Hm. Which AP was Seltyiel in? Carrion Crown? (For some reason, I've got that in my head).
Wes's Meet the Iconics blog wrote:
Seltyiel debuts as a pregenerated character in volume 13 of Pathfinder.

That'd be Second Darkness. Of course, that would be the Eldritch Knight version of him; I don't know if magus-Seltyiel was officially in an AP before they stopped publishing the pregen stats.


Snorter wrote:
If someone is continually inserting wrong information, and it's clear that they are doing so deliberately, since his origin can easily be checked in the APs and Paizo blog, do the site staff have the tools to block that person from making further changes, or even from viewing the site?

From looking at it, it seems like the person in question may genuinely believe the (mis)information he is posting is correct. He appears unable to cite any references, but his comments suggest he somehow got the dhampir, gunslinger, and summoner information from the comics.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

As far as I know, none of those things (Seltyiel, dhampir, gunslinger, OR summoner) have appeared in the comics.


seltyiel was in second darkness and council of thieves

I dont recall him in another AP, but I could be mistaken.
We was an EK in both (magus wasn't out yet)

Scarab Sages

Cthulhudrew wrote:
From looking at it, it seems like the person in question may genuinely believe the (mis)information he is posting is correct. He appears unable to cite any references, but his comments suggest he somehow got the dhampir, gunslinger, and summoner information from the comics.

They're French, and citing comics?

The plot gets wierder.

I wonder if they're mixing it up with a completely unrelated series?

I got an invite last month, from Pat (Nemesis the Warlock/Slaine/FLESH!/Judge Dredd) Mills, to check out his French-language title 'Requiem: Vampire Knight', which had an albino, long-haired villain/antihero on the cover.

Then there's 'The Witcher', another white-haired bad-boy, but is that Polish?

Elric of Melnibone? Plenty of summoning, but no guns I recall. But I haven't read 'The Dream-Thief's Daughter', which (I believe) has him dragged into the 20th century...

Hmm. Given that this recurring wiki entry refers to at least three options (dhamphir, gunslinger and summoner) that have proven to be divisive 'Not in MY fantasy game!' elements, my money's still on this being an attempt to bamboozle their GM, and slide them into the campaign through the catflap of 'official canon'.


Snorter wrote:
Cthulhudrew wrote:
From looking at it, it seems like the person in question may genuinely believe the (mis)information he is posting is correct. He appears unable to cite any references, but his comments suggest he somehow got the dhampir, gunslinger, and summoner information from the comics.

They're French, and citing comics?

The plot gets wierder.

I wonder if they're mixing it up with a completely unrelated series?

I got an invite last month, from Pat (Nemesis the Warlock/Slaine/FLESH!/Judge Dredd) Mills, to check out his French-language title 'Requiem: Vampire Knight', which had an albino, long-haired villain/antihero on the cover.

Then there's 'The Witcher', another white-haired bad-boy, but is that Polish?

Elric of Melnibone? Plenty of summoning, but no guns I recall. But I haven't read 'The Dream-Thief's Daughter', which (I believe) has him dragged into the 20th century...

Hmm. Given that this recurring wiki entry refers to at least three options (dhamphir, gunslinger and summoner) that have proven to be divisive 'Not in MY fantasy game!' elements, my money's still on this being an attempt to bamboozle their GM, and slide them into the campaign through the catflap of 'official canon'.

sot he master plan is to play a dhaampir gunslinger summoner, because the FRENCH wiki says…. wow… weak plan


he worships the contractor ,,,,, ah new there was a reason why I didn't like him. Generally I dislike gnomes, but I like the gnomish druid more that Seltyiel.


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I found Seltyiel's write up in Second Darkness and Council of Thieves. As was pointed out upthread, this is the EK version. Haven't seen any stats for the Magus version. I want to do a comparison, at least at the levels I've got (1st lvl - fighter 1; 4th lvl - fighter 1/evoker 3; 7th lvl - fighter 1/evoker 5/eldritch knight 1; 10th lvl - fighter 1/evoker 5/eldritch knight 4; 13th lvl - fighter 1/evoker 5/eldritch knight 7; 16th lvl - fighter 1/evoker 5/eldritch knight 10) between the EK version and the magus version ( so Magus 1/4/7/10/13/16), just for curiosity's sake. I suppose if I can't find official write ups for magus Seltyiel I'll have to make those levels up. :-)


Is he one of the PFS pregens? That may be the only place you'll find an official magus-Seltyiel.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Joana wrote:
Is he one of the PFS pregens? That may be the only place you'll find an official magus-Seltyiel.

No he is not.

Keep in mind folks that some of the material here, i.e. Second Darkness predates the Pathfinder game itself and reflects a somewhat different Golarion than the present world setting.


Pathfinder LO Special Edition, Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

Is that necessarily true? I did notice that the Second Darkness Seltyiel seems to have some skills that aren't in the current game's list, and doesn't have some that are.

I did notice that there are small differences between the 10th lvl Seltyiel in Second Darkness and the one in Council of Thieves. And the lvl 1 Magus Seltyiel seems a bit weaker than the lvl 1 Fighter Seltyiel (that's as far as I've looked so far). Hopefully that will even out a bit as they level up.

It's only curiosity. Doesn't really matter if I get it figured out or not.


Ed Reppert wrote:
Is that necessarily true? I did notice that the Second Darkness Seltyiel seems to have some skills that aren't in the current game's list, and doesn't have some that are.

There were some minor changes to the setting between the publication of the original world guide and the current one, but nothing major that I can think of.

Seltyiel's mechanics would have changed slightly; there is the skill difference you note; between the publication of Second Darkness and Council of Thieves, Concentration was no longer a skill, Gather Information was folded into either Diplomacy or Knowledge (local) (possibly both, I don't recall offhand), Listen, Spot, and Search were folded into Perception. They also changed Seltyiel's wizard specialty from Evocation to Conjuration.

I'm not sure there ever has been an official statted up version of Seltyiel as a Magus, though, even a 1st level one.


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Cthulhudrew wrote:
I'm not sure there ever has been an official statted up version of Seltyiel as a Magus, though, even a 1st level one.

Neither am I. :-)


Note: I'm not Pendagast.

"Second Darkness" was written for OGL/3.5.

"Council of Thieves" was the first AP written for the brand-new PFRPG. At the time, the only Pathfinder RPG hardcovers in print were the Core Rulebook and Bestiary.

Back when Paizo used to provide iconic character pregens in their modules, there was usually some variation between the builds in the various publications-- even between different versions of the character at the same level. My understanding is that these were never meant to be "official" in-game representations of the same character. The characters were simply pregens for the module, and their builds regularly got tweaked specifically for the module they were supporting.


Carrion Hill also comes with a pre-gen Seltyiel - fighter 1/evoker 4 IIRC.

Serpent's Skull was the last AP to have pre-gens. Seltyiel as a magus doesn't appear in an AP until Skull & Shackles, I believe.

Odds are really good we won't see an updated Seltyiel stat block until NPC Codex 2 happens.


Or until the rest of the pregens for Pathfinder Society come out. Seytiel would presumably show up there - although wasn't he evil in his initial writeup?


SteelDraco wrote:
Or until the rest of the pregens for Pathfinder Society come out. Seytiel would presumably show up there - although wasn't he evil in his initial writeup?

He still is. The only evil iconic.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cthulhudrew wrote:
SteelDraco wrote:
Or until the rest of the pregens for Pathfinder Society come out. Seytiel would presumably show up there - although wasn't he evil in his initial writeup?
He still is. The only evil iconic.

Which is why he will never be a legal pre-gen for PFS.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It is said in whispered corners that Seltyiel the iconic Eldritch Knight heard about this upstart version of himself, and sent a challenge to a fair duel.

It is also said that this doppelganger slipped in invisible and stabbed him in the back, while electrocuting him as reply.

It is also said that this story be best repeated only in whispered corners.

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