Is there any way to draw cards as weapons faster than a move action without using Quick Draw?


Advice


Can you tell I hate the Quick Draw feat?

Let's say a character has Deadly Dealer and a BaB of 6 or higher (or has Rapid Shot). The character can treat the deck as a single ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition for the purposes of enchanting the deck, but I don't think you get to treat cards as ammo for the purpose of drawing them.

Is there any way to draw cards faster than a move action without needing Quick Draw?


Funny definitely an interesting topic will keep an eye on this as I was wanting to make a ninja who fought with magic cards to make a reference to Sheena Fujibayashi. Slightly off topic but can you use these cards as a melee weapon as well?

Scarab Sages

noble peasant wrote:
Slightly off topic but can you use these cards as a melee weapon as well?

They are treated as darts only when using the deadly dealer feat, so no.


I believe you would, since it says that the deck is a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition. Since the cards are ammunition, and the deck is the weapon you have "equipped" I would treat the deck as a bow for all intents and purposes. You do not need Quick Draw to nock an arrow, why would you need it to draw a card?

This is of course, all under the assumption that the deck itself counts as a single ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition. If you just had 54 darts you would need quickdraw, but because the deck is a single weapon with ammunition I believe you do not need Quick Draw.

I am, however, no expert. So get this verified by someone else.


I don't believe you need quickdraw, I believe its built into deadly dealer.

The Harrow Handbook wrote:
You can throw a card as though it were a dart, with the same damage, range, and other features.

and darts are classifies as ammunition, and:

Core Rulebook wrote:
When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action; crossbows and slings require an action for reloading (as noted in their descriptions).

Now, it only says bow, then it goes on to say reloading (but not drawing) ammunition is an action for crossbows and slings. I therefor interpret RAI to be drawing ammunition is a free action. Most GM's I know interpret it that way too, though you may have slight table variations if its for PFS, it should be rare though.

Edit: Plus found this:

Paizo PRD wrote:
Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action.

so it is official, drawing a dart is a free action.


darts are only ammunition for the ones used in blowguns.


Ammunition never takes an action to draw.


Feral gnasher has the ability to pick up objects as a free action.


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Logic here guys.

If you are using a deck two-handed, that is, using one hand to hold the deck and the other to take the cards and throw them, you don't need Quick Draw since you have the deck at hand - although it's a problem for spells with a somatic component if you need to hold a card in the other hand.

If you are shooting single cards with the deck stashed, ala Twisted Fate or Gambit, you need Quick Draw.


Darts are thrown weapons and in no way ammo. The type of darts that are ammo have the name of the weapon that uses it in the name like Blowgun dart, Kestros dart or Atlatl dart. When listed as JUST dart, it's a simple thrown weapon. It's all in the PRD. http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateEquipment/armsAndArmor/weapons.h tml#dart You'll also note that they are listed under the thrown weapons group.

As to "the deck is a ranged weapon with 54 pieces of ammunition", that's only for enchanting. For combat, it's used "as though it were a dart". That's a thrown simple weapon.

To ohako, you're stuck with the quickdraw feat unless you're ok with only throwing 1 per round with a move action to draw and a standard to throw.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

On the other hand, the Ranged Tactics Toolbox will be coming out in a few months. There may be more options to your liking in there.


Doh! Graystone is correct, you need quickdraw. Thrown weapons get hosed again.


Irnk, Dead-Eye's Prodigal wrote:
On the other hand, the Ranged Tactics Toolbox will be coming out in a few months. There may be more options to your liking in there.

that's different...

I guess I hope that book tells me how to throw bear traps or poisonous snakes.

Scarab Sages

ohako wrote:


I guess I hope that book tells me how to throw bear traps or poisonous snakes.

You can already do that with ranger traps. :)


Imbicatus wrote:
ohako wrote:


I guess I hope that book tells me how to throw bear traps or poisonous snakes.
You can already do that with ranger traps. :)

Is it too much to ask for a repeating snake launcher?

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