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Raining Blood - The Bloodrager's Guide to Pleasing the Metal Gods


Advice

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Hey everyone; this is a project I've been working on off and on for a while now but the meat of it is finished so I figured I'd go ahead and publish it. I'll be adding in some more content as time goes on, including a few sample builds.

So, here it is. Let me know what you think.


I'm not sure if it stack but the aberrant bloodline with long arms, enlarge person and combat reflexes has a 20 or 30 foot reach depending on if it stacks, and it's probably worth a 14 Dexterity (especially since with enlarge your loosing one aoo). Otherwise looks pretty nice so far.


Dot
I'll be watching for the updates thanks arachnofiend ;P


id rate dwarves as green personally, the saves boost and a bonus to your bloodraging and bloodline stat is fully balanced with having to buy a 15 in charisma. then there is retaining speed in armor and fast movement to bring you up to 30 feet in mithral full plate.


This class is a stand out to me in the ACG, I am sure my first ACG character will be the Bloodrager.

For the arcane bloodrage powers (all of them)

a. Are the spells which are named need to be in your known spells list? I am assuming not since the selections are so specific.

Regarding the greater/true bloodrage powers spell effects

b. Does it consume spell slots of the appropriate level to apply those effects? I know for the non-bloodline power it specifies the slot is consumed. The statement of "This is in addition to arcane bloodrage, and otherwise works as that ability." makes me think the slot is consumed through the use of the bloodline power.


oh and if you a metamagic rager and have the proper ioun stone you can rage cycle your way into as much effective metamagic on a spell as you have rage rounds.
edit:with the aberrant bloodline.


Arcane Bloodrage and it's upgrades are spell-like abilities that mimic the selected spells when you enter a bloodrage. So you don't need the spell on your list and you don't spend a slot (as you're not really casting it).


Arachnofiend wrote:
Arcane Bloodrage and it's upgrades are spell-like abilities that mimic the selected spells when you enter a bloodrage. So you don't need the spell on your list and you don't spend a slot (as you're not really casting it).

Man, that's like cherry and nuts on top of the ice cream. That's an incredible amount of self-buffs to put into play. Thanks for the guide, it's off to a good start. I agree that half orc is perfect for this class, I immediately thought of 1/2 orc even from a flavor standpoint though sacred tattoo combo for the saves is sweet.

I like cross blooded a lot, but it's really hard to take that will save hit.


A good start, but you need to include the various archetypes to really do it justice.

Playing an untouchable rager, for example, is almost like playing a totally different class, as you can totally dump charisma with that archetype. Primalist brings in the aspects of various rage powers, which again, makes this class totally different than core.

Also, you didn't seem to go over traits, feats, and skills, which you usually see in most guides.


It's a bit of a nitpick (since you only really mention it in the Aberrant bloodline), but Bloodragers get a caster level equal to their class level. They lack the language that Paladins and Rangers have about getting a reduced caster level.


Nice start, you seem to have a pretty similar take on the bloodlines that I did, arcane and destined are the best, and abyssal is surprisingly bad. I think you are a little low on blood conduit. Its bad if you try and go unarmed specialist, but it combines really nicely with the shapeshifting bloodlines, especially draconic. Get feral combat training for one of your natural attacks, and specialize in those multi-touch attacks, and go to town.

I also think you are a little high on steelblood. I would have it green rather then blue, its good but not a must take, especialy in a high point-buy game where you can get a higher dex. Mainly because I think you are really high on blood deflection. I would much rather just pick up a ring of deflection rather than rely on the ability. Also, Stone Shield seems to be a pretty decent 1st level spell for a bloodrager, and honestly supersedes the need for blood deflection.


rageshaper could have its uses for abyssal and dragon bloodlines since bestial aspect also applies to bloodline nat attacks.


I resent your comments that halflings make terrible bloodragers--between the destined bloodline and their racial FCB they are some beefy mofos.

Bonus points if you crossblood in destined/arcane for free buffs while raging.

Also bloodragers keep full CL despite getting spells at level 4, this was done on purpose by the design team to keep its offensive spells halfway viable.

For the builds section: ill toss a few fir you to check out in the morning once im actually on a computer.


AndIMustMask wrote:
I resent your comments that halflings make terrible bloodragers--between the destined bloodline and their racial FCB they are some beefy mofos.

Yeah, I made a halfling primalist steelblood rager with the Destined bloodline, based on a build you posted, and it's pretty freakin' awsome.

Sovereign Court

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I've seen an abyssal bloodrager (rageshaper) in action, I think it's better than you let on. Despite having half the same AC as my same-level paladin he takes less damage because people don't survive to get near him. Ridiculous reach combined with enlarged/raging weapon damage on polearms kills most things.

Yeah, the Aberrant might do that in an even neater way. But that doesn't make Abyssal bad, just not as good.

Sovereign Court

Also, the Rageshaper archetype isn't as bad as you think; it works with the Abyssal's claws. Meaning, at level 4 when you rage you have claws for 2d6 each. I don't think it's relevant for most other bloodlines though.


Nice to see a Bloodrager guide, thanks Arachnofiend! :) A few nitpicks:

The bloodline section needs formatting, it's exhausting to read as it is right now. Maybe take a look at the Sorcerer guides and how they presented bloodlines. If possible, an extra section about available options to build upon a bloodline's powers would be much appreciated (feats, traits, PrC's).

I would add a note to the Primalist archetype that it doesn't qualify for Extra Rage Power feats, as I've seen people make that mistake twice now.

Sovereign Court

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Primalist archetype doesn't quality for any rage feats, that was the only way to make it somewhat balanced. Which also mean, Primalist, can't take the AM iconic feat.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

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There's a lot of good stuff, but I think you value Blood Conduit too low. The big draw there is being able to pick up Improved Trip, Reposition, or Grapple without the prereqs.

If you're looking for sample builds to include, I recently put this together to abuse long reach on the Aberrant bloodline.

Mr. Tickle
Half-Elf Bloodrager (Aberrant bloodline, Blood Conduit)
18/15/14/8/8/12
FCB: +1 rage or skill
Traits: Accelerated Drinker, Elven Reflexes
Alt Racial Traits: Dual-Minded

BR1: Power Attack, staggering strike
BR2:
BR3: Combat Reflexes, blood sanctuary
BR4: +5' reach, +1 Dex, Eschew Materials
BR5: Improved Bull Rush, spell conduit
BR6: Improved Trip
BR7: Quick Bull Rush, DR 1/-
BR8: aberrant fortitude, +1 Con
BR9: Greater Bull Rush, Iron Will
BR10: DR 2/-
BR11: Raging Vitality, greater rage

In the opening round, he uses Accelerated Drinker to drink an enlarge person potion, then a spring-loaded wrist sheath with a wand of long arm, and go into rage. That gives him 20 feet of reach even without a reach weapon, and Combat Reflexes for 3 AoOs. Improved Trip keeps people away, and Improved/Quick Bull Rush pushes them back to make them go through the kill zone again.

Liberty's Edge

DOTING!


@rainydayninja: i'm surprised you didnt go for bull rush/trip/vicious stomp for maximum AoOspam

also, you could replace iron will with steadfast personality for a better will bonus (unless youre grabbing that with a bloodline bonus feat, in which case carry on)


An untouchable rager/primalist with the arcane bloodline is a super effective mage killer.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

AndIMustMask wrote:

@rainydayninja: i'm surprised you didnt go for bull rush/trip/vicious stomp for maximum AoOspam

also, you could replace iron will with steadfast personality for a better will bonus (unless youre grabbing that with a bloodline bonus feat, in which case carry on)

Vicious Stomp requires IUS, so that's another 2-feat investment or a level dip. Maybe not a bad idea for higher levels.

And yes, Iron Will is a bloodline bonus feat, so I can't switch to Steadfast Personality. The Charisma bonus is so small on this guy anyway, it wouldn't be better until at least level 10.


EsperMagic wrote:
An untouchable rager/primalist with the arcane bloodline is a super effective mage killer.

i was toying with something similar as a dwarf (you only ever NEED 14 cha for spellcasting so the cha hit isnt super horrible) with the steel soul and combat expertise feats and grabs supserstition/witch hunter/spell sunder/strength surge via primalist

tack on a furious courageous phase-locking weapon and the step up (and strike) feats and he's crazy mean against mages.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Yes, the Fey Bloodline is weaker than many (perhaps some border on broken? Arcane, I'm looking at you!), but so thematic and cool. The Confusing Crit should last longer...ignoring obstacles while charging is awesome...blur and haste fantastic...the treestride I would swap as a Primalist...and yes, bane should not wait so long.
I guess I just love the idea of a fey blooded beautiful woman in a cold fury while tearing up badguys. So sue the romantic in me (I picture my wife in that role, BTW. :P ).


I'm really not sold on the Untouchable Rager. Enemy casters still have plenty of ways to mess with you without having to beat SR; friendly casters, however, need to beat it for any buffs or emergency healing they might wish to grant. SR isn't as good as Superstition and you don't give up nearly as much for Superstition, either.


Arachnofiend wrote:
... Enemy casters still have plenty of ways to mess with you without having to beat SR ...

My reasoning has been that unless your GM is horribly metagaming, the enemy casters won't know you have SR until they've tried to hit you at with at least 1 attack spell. By then, any proper untouchable should be in his face mashing him flat.

Even if it has other spells, most write-ups for casters have them opening combat with a fireball, enervation, confusion, charm, etc...

A few do have them starting with a pit or black tentacles to hide behind. That could be a problem. But not all those nasty direct attack spells.

I expect it to work better than some say, but I acknowledge that I haven't had a chance to try it yet.


Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
... Enemy casters still have plenty of ways to mess with you without having to beat SR ...

My reasoning has been that unless your GM is horribly metagaming, the enemy casters won't know you have SR until they've tried to hit you at with at least 1 attack spell. By then, any proper untouchable should be in his face mashing him flat.

Even if it has other spells, most write-ups for casters have them opening combat with a fireball, enervation, confusion, charm, etc...

A few do have them starting with a pit or black tentacles to hide behind. That could be a problem. But not all those nasty direct attack spells.

I expect it to work better than some say, but I acknowledge that I haven't had a chance to try it yet.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for the antagonists' organization to be interested in spying/scrying on the PCs after the PCs wreck their operations a few times. In fact it would harm immersion for the PCs to never build up any sort of reputation, or to be utterly immune to information gathering on the part of other world actors.

It isn't metagaming for an enemy to have information. They can have none, a little, some, a lot, etc, but they're all fair possibilities depending on the context of the game.


EchOne wrote:
Kydeem de'Morcaine wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
... Enemy casters still have plenty of ways to mess with you without having to beat SR ...

My reasoning has been that unless your GM is horribly metagaming, the enemy casters won't know you have SR until they've tried to hit you at with at least 1 attack spell. By then, any proper untouchable should be in his face mashing him flat.

Even if it has other spells, most write-ups for casters have them opening combat with a fireball, enervation, confusion, charm, etc...

A few do have them starting with a pit or black tentacles to hide behind. That could be a problem. But not all those nasty direct attack spells.

I expect it to work better than some say, but I acknowledge that I haven't had a chance to try it yet.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for the antagonists' organization to be interested in spying/scrying on the PCs after the PCs wreck their operations a few times. In fact it would harm immersion for the PCs to never build up any sort of reputation, or to be utterly immune to information gathering on the part of other world actors.

It isn't metagaming for an enemy to have information. They can have none, a little, some, a lot, etc, but they're all fair possibilities depending on the context of the game.

Oh, I absolutely agree that a reoccurring villain or organization, or heck even someone that knows the famous PC's are in the area will make plans to deal with them.

Most of our opponents don't fit in those categories. At least not in the last 2 of 3 campaigns. (In the 3rd the whole campaign is against 1 particular organization.)

I also often play PFS where I don't think it would often be reasonable to say this particular villain knows that of all the potential pathfinders that particular guy is coming after him and oh by the way he has really high SR.


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i must admit that bloodrager didn't get my interest early on. but looking him more carefully i start to like him more and more.

what i was thinkng would be really awesome later on would be something like:

crossblooded aberrant/undead:
bloodline powers:
1: frightful charger
4: reach
8: fortitude
12: frightful strikes

feats:
1: whatever
3: whatever
5: arcane strike
6: combat reflexes
7: blooded arcane strike
9: riving strike
9: imp init
11: whatever (rage casting?)
12: iron will (toughness?)

get a fortuitus (cruel) reach weapon and go to town:

enter rage (cast enlarge)
activate arcane strike (free)
activate frightful strikes (swift)
and charge opponent at 25(30?) feet reach.

opponent becomes shaken due to frightful charger (no saving throw)
opponent takes -2 to sv throws vs spells+spell-like (riving, no saving throw)
opponent becomes frightened due to frightful strikes (no saving throw)
opponent becomes sickened due to cruel weapon (no saving throw)

opponents turn: he tries to run away:
attack of oportunity
attack of opportunity at -5 (fortuitus)

Next round:
rage cycle to use frightful strike again, charge opponent, rinse repeat.

If there are multiple opponents just don't use your fortuitus on the one you have already frighten. Keep it to do 2 attacks of opportunity towards someone coming at you so that you can frighten him too (and avoid all of his attacks as well as gain some extra aoo while he too turns tail and runs)

basically, anyone who tries to move within your 20-30ft reach is prone to instantly become frightened without a sv throw, and whomever you attack is also getting frightened without a saving throw. All of them are also sickened, and all of them get an additional -2to sv throws from riving...

You can do a multitude of things more, like p.e. picking up the trip feat line and trip them when they try to run. Or pick a ring of bloody vengeance which is bloody cheap and allows you to cast save or suck, without wasting an action (apart from the aoo) at opponents who have -6 at sv throws (riving, cruel, frightened)
or etc

another neat trick is to just pick up rage casting and after the initial baragge:
move enough so target is within reach.
cast a save or suck at +4dc while the opponent still has the -6 on his saving throws. Even with a 14 starting cha and a +4 head band, that would mean that you would effectivly have something like 24+spelllevel dc which is up there with specialized casters. (although you wont have a swift to enable frightful strike this round)

The real problem is against creatures immune to fear though, but meh, you still have your rest of the arsenal for that. Maybe picking up staggering strike instead of frightful charge will help here, but i don't really like to rely on luck (although you could have a 1/4 chance to crit with a 18-20reach weapon which isn't bad at all)

edit:edited the feat line a bit


shroudb wrote:
*neato undead/aberrant build*

if you're human you could grab EWP (fauchard) at 1st level, letting you have an 18-20 reach weapon.

i think the naginata is the same as well?


shroudb wrote:


feats:
1:arcane strike
3: riving strike
5: whatever
6: combat reflexes
7: whatever
9: whatever
11: whatever

Bloodrager does not qualify for arcane strike until he can cast spells (level 4), so it could be your 5th level feat, then riving strike at 7. I like blooded arcane strike at 7 to save your swift action for something else though.


KnotAguru wrote:
shroudb wrote:


feats:
1:arcane strike
3: riving strike
5: whatever
6: combat reflexes
7: whatever
9: whatever
11: whatever

Bloodrager does not qualify for arcane strike until he can cast spells (level 4), so it could be your 5th level feat, then riving strike at 7. I like blooded arcane strike at 7 to save your swift action for something else though.

yeah messed up the feat progression but edit it.

i already assumed blooded because i use swift action for the frightful strike, i just forgot to write it, check the edited feats


Ascalaphus wrote:
Also, the Rageshaper archetype isn't as bad as you think; it works with the Abyssal's claws. Meaning, at level 4 when you rage you have claws for 2d6 each. I don't think it's relevant for most other bloodlines though.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't, actually. The ability only works with natural attacks gained through the use of a polymorph spell; the Abyssal and Draconic claws are both supernatural abilities.


Arachnofiend wrote:
Ascalaphus wrote:
Also, the Rageshaper archetype isn't as bad as you think; it works with the Abyssal's claws. Meaning, at level 4 when you rage you have claws for 2d6 each. I don't think it's relevant for most other bloodlines though.
I'm pretty sure it doesn't, actually. The ability only works with natural attacks gained through the use of a polymorph spell; the Abyssal and Draconic claws are both supernatural abilities.
Quote:
At 4th level, whenever a rageshaper gains a natural attack through the use of a polymorph spell, he can increase the damage done by that attack by one die. If the spell grants multiple natural attacks, the rageshaper must choose one kind of natural attack for the ability to enhance. At 9th level, if the rageshaper's altered form grants him a new mode of movement, that movement's base speed increases by 10 feet. This is an enhancement bonus. If the rageshaper's bloodrage powers already grant natural attacks or alternate modes of movement, then the bonuses granted by bestial aspect also apply to these bloodrage powers.

emphasis mine


...I read that ability several times over to see if there was something I was missing.

Okay, yeah that's pretty good. I can definitely see a Half-Orc Draconic Bloodrager or a Tiefling Abyssal get some use out of this archetype.


Arachnofiend wrote:

...I read that ability several times over to see if there was something I was missing.

Okay, yeah that's pretty good. I can definitely see a Half-Orc Draconic Bloodrager or a Tiefling Abyssal get some use out of this archetype.

at lvl 8 you can have your claws dealing 3d6 damage and count as magic.

but still, i don't find that to be THAT powerful. flavorful? yeah, but not having your strikes count as silver/cold iron/adamantine/alignment/etc outside the extremely expensive aomf seems weak.

i believe that the powers that grant you claws should instead of them counting as magic it should make them count as something else (alignment? coldiron/silver?) because bloodrager already has easy access to always on arcane strike that already makes his attacks count as magic...


What's kind of lame is that the Bloodrager doesn't get Strong Jaw... I know it's just been a nature spell so far but it would have been very flavorful and mechanically strong for a natural attack Bloodrager.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

A +1 furious bodywrap of mighty strikes would make the natural attacks cold iron/silver and "only" cost 12k, (okay you can only use it once per round until level 6, then twice until level 11) and using a holy amulet of might fists (16k) to deal with those pesky demons/devil/daemons etc while keeping a swarmbane clasp at hand for when you run into swarms and a golembane scarab for dealing with golems.

Just keep an adamantine earthbreaker or so as backup for when you really need to get past hardness.


AndIMustMask wrote:
EsperMagic wrote:
An untouchable rager/primalist with the arcane bloodline is a super effective mage killer.

i was toying with something similar as a dwarf (you only ever NEED 14 cha for spellcasting so the cha hit isnt super horrible) with the steel soul and combat expertise feats and grabs supserstition/witch hunter/spell sunder/strength surge via primalist

tack on a furious courageous phase-locking weapon and the step up (and strike) feats and he's crazy mean against mages.

I did this. I find dwarf to be very viable, especially if going cross-blooded or untouchable. I don't think the Cha hit is that bad, Con and Wis aren't that bad of stats to get bumps on. Steel Soul alone is a gem of a feat.

Sovereign Court

You should listen to Damanta... he's the bloodrager I saw in action, and it works in practice. So you better make sure it also works in theory :P

I think the part you can easily overlook is just how powerful it is to enlarge whenever you rage. The sudden increase in threatened area has been really effective. Also, just being BIG has been a big help now and then; he saved us in Weapon in the Rift by first tossing the half-orc bard up to the balcony, then letting my paladin use him as a climbing fixture get up to that balcony. Also, I think it had real intimidation value during Technic Siege in the shop scene.

The sheer speed of enlargement seems to be the key. Instead of taking a full-round casting or even just a potion-drinking Move+Standard (provokes twice), this is just a free action. That's very powerful in actual play.

Consider this: an enemy is at 20ft. You take a 5ft. step, then rage and enlarge, expanding forward. Now your enemy is within the reach of your 10ft claw attacks, and you can make a full attack. Basically, even aside from the reach, enlarge is a secret free additional 5ft. move. And this is a free action.

---

I'm not denying the power of the other bloodlines. But Abyssal and Aberrant have their own little game going on with Reach. It's a separate style of builds, and it's powerful.


Hmm, has anyone considered destined Primal Steelblood with a falchion, some critical feats, and the accuracy rage powers? Might be an interesting critical build.


EsperMagic wrote:
An untouchable rager/primalist with the arcane bloodline is a super effective mage killer.

Have a build to share EsperMagic? I was thinking of something like this for my RoTRL replacement character. I really like the idea of being anti-caster focused as a niche

Also, the untouchable archetype makes dwarf as viable as anything else, you don't actually need CHA for casting since you don't get spells.


I was wondering what most of you would think a good array for a Human/Half-elf/Half-Orc Bloodrager with a 15 point buy limitation would be.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
evilash wrote:
Yeah, I made a halfling primalist steelblood rager with the Destined bloodline, based on a build you posted, and it's pretty freakin' awsome.

Do you remember in the late days of 3.5e when people would talk about their half-noble-drow-half-undead-dragon-demon-ranger/prestigeclassprestigeclass/ prestigeclass builds? You just reminded me of that era. <Grin>

Grand Lodge

Is there going to be a feats section? Im aware of the following core feats:
Power attack, raging vitality, arcane strike.

Are there more advanced feats that work crazy well?

Perhaps after feats section get in a equipment section?
Things like spellstoring, furious, ext ext.

Shadow Lodge

Anguish wrote:
evilash wrote:
Yeah, I made a halfling primalist steelblood rager with the Destined bloodline, based on a build you posted, and it's pretty freakin' awsome.
Do you remember in the late days of 3.5e when people would talk about their half-noble-drow-half-undead-dragon-demon-ranger/prestigeclassprestigeclass/ prestigeclass builds? You just reminded me of that era. <Grin>

How about the Middle-aged 1/2Gnome Aasimar Flowing Monk of the Sacred Mountain of the Four Winds/Hospitaler/Crusader/Champion of Irori builds?


TLaughingMan wrote:
I was wondering what most of you would think a good array for a Human/Half-elf/Half-Orc Bloodrager with a 15 point buy limitation would be.

I think 16 STR/12 DEX/12 CON/8 INT/12 WIS/11 CHA is workable. You'll need to put your level up stat bonuses into charisma in order to keep pace with your spellcasting.


EvilPaladin wrote:
Anguish wrote:
evilash wrote:
Yeah, I made a halfling primalist steelblood rager with the Destined bloodline, based on a build you posted, and it's pretty freakin' awsome.
Do you remember in the late days of 3.5e when people would talk about their half-noble-drow-half-undead-dragon-demon-ranger/prestigeclassprestigeclass/ prestigeclass builds? You just reminded me of that era. <Grin>
How about the Middle-aged 1/2Gnome Aasimar Flowing Monk of the Sacred Mountain of the Four Winds/Hospitaler/Crusader/Champion of Irori builds?

or Elf tattooed crossblooded black dragon/primal earth sorcerer 1/scrollmaster thassilonian sin magic wrath admixture subschool wizard 15


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Is there going to be a feats section? Im aware of the following core feats:

Power attack, raging vitality, arcane strike.

Are there more advanced feats that work crazy well?

Perhaps after feats section get in a equipment section?
Things like spellstoring, furious, ext ext.

blooded arcane strike is a stupid good feat for damage boosting.

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