The Mighty Lich: Bard / Witch / Summoner?


Advice

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I've been brainstorming for ideas for my campaign's BBEG for a while now, and I've decided to go the standard lich route. I don't really feel like going the way of the wizard, sorcerer, or arcanist. How would a lich bard work out? Or a summoner, or witch? What mythic tiers could he have, if any? I'm going for the "let the minions deal with it" kind of villain, that can nevertheless put up a good fight in the final battle. If it helps, he'd be in the CR 20-22 range.

Thank you for your time.

Silver Crusade

I won't lie, I would have a hard time understanding why a Bard would look into something like Lichdom, but talk about throwing a curve ball to your players, lol.

A Bard Lich playing creepy Dirges to animate minions and using its very unsettling music to buff said minions actually sounds like a very cool idea, just make sure your Lich closely resembles Vincent Price to complete the picture ;)

As far as Mythic Tiers go, totally up to you based on where you want your players to be in terms of Mythic Tiers for that encounter.

Scarab Sages

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Use a Magus.

Dual Path: Archmage/Guardian


Norgrim: My players won't actually be Mythic themselves. I plan on having only two Mythic creatures in the game as "optional bosses", of sorts. Unless I end up giving the lich some tiers or the Mythic Lich template, of course.

Artanthos: How did I forget the magus? That's a pretty good idea.


Ok I admit the idea of a Lich Bard is AWESOME!

But if his style is gonna be to let his minions do the work, a Master Summoner Lich would fit very well and terrify the party.

Liberty's Edge

The Summoner can make a pretty good Lich, the Eidolon will soak up damage and put it out right back at them. Summon spells keep him safe after his eidolon is killed. Most importantly the Summoners HP will be based off of his Charisma rather than con for undead so a modest 30-ish will grant him +200 HP to deal with ion addition to a D8 HD and Mythic. 3/4 BAB hurts but can be done with enough abilities,

I would personally vote against the Bard for the same reason as Norgrim, Bards are not really the type to seek undead immortality. If you have a good story reason or idea the go for it because they won't see it coming.

Magus will be scary because the mythic Lich can send the paralysis through his weapon, enjoy spell strike damage and make a fortitude save or be paralyzed forever.


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I saw a Lich Bard once that was literally Michael Jackson


Norgrim Malgus wrote:
A Bard Lich playing creepy Dirges to animate minions and using its very unsettling music to buff said minions actually sounds like a very cool idea, just make sure your Lich closely resembles Vincent Price to complete the picture ;)

You mean like this?

And I could see a bard nit only wanting to learn legends, but be one instead... By any means necessary.


Awesome, sounds like some good times coming then. Have fun with whatever Lich concept you settle on, I know the stereotypical arcane type of Lich gets stale after a time :)


On that note, you could make a Lich Skald and call her cult the Drowning Doom.


Personally, I think clerics make excellent liches. I like to give them quick channel and blast out two attacks a round with spells and channels.

But you didn't ask that.

From what you asked, I like witches.

For one thing, you can get the channeling witch and do what I just said.

For another, you can give your lich the slumber hex and have plenty of minions running around to potentially coup de grace sleeping PCs.


Azten wrote:
Norgrim Malgus wrote:
A Bard Lich playing creepy Dirges to animate minions and using its very unsettling music to buff said minions actually sounds like a very cool idea, just make sure your Lich closely resembles Vincent Price to complete the picture ;)

You mean like this?

And I could see a bard nit only wanting to learn legends, but be one instead... By any means necessary.

That's pretty cool actually, and a good base to build off of to flesh out(no pun intended) the overall concept.


It's extremely unfortunate that any moral bonuses a Bard can hand out are useless on a Undead allies.


Fie to all who say that a bard cannot seek immortality through lichdom! For who is better than the bard at ferreting out the secrets of the world? No one!

A bard lich (especially with a quick dip into lore oracle for cha to defenses and knowledge skill checks--the latter gained via feat) will know everything about the party, their playstyles, eating habits, and what they wanted for christmas at age 4 within moments of laying eyes on them.

Astronomical charisma opens up grabbing eldritch heritage (arcane) to cherrypick goodies from the wizard list as well (animate dead springs to mind)

Combine with a versatile spell list (with some fantastic mindcontrol potential) and built-in minionmancy with buffs and you've got a dream bbeg.

Azten wrote:
It's extremely unfortunate that any moral bonuses a Bard can hand out are useless on a Undead allies.

archeologists give themselves a luck bonus if you go that route, and dirge bards can buff undead just fine.

Silver Crusade

Well, let me be clear, I would have a hard time seeing a pure Bard, not multiclassed, going down that path. That doesn't mean the idea isn't cool; the looks from the players alone would make it worth the effort to build one.

The fact that it would be such an outlier, is what intrigues me about the concept. I am envisioning a Bard who happens upon a cursed musical instrument in their travels which may have been a personal possession of another Lich. Maybe its Phylactery and there is some power preventing it from reforming? At any rate, possession of the item could become more dangerous as it subtly tries to influence the Bard to seek forbidden knowledge (very tempting for the Bard) in the rites and practices that lead to Lichdom. As the Bard searches through various ruins (former Lich's sanctum?) for this knowledge and finally manages to perform all the steps necessary, the final act in this event would be the actual 'resurrection' of the former Lich's essence transferring from the instrument and fully possessing the Bard.

If the Lich was given the Mythic Lich template, its Phylactery could even be an artifact and the act of transference to the Bard had some unforeseen side effects, such as the Lich having access to some of the Bard's class abilities.

So, storywise, very doable and for me, a reasonable approach as to why a Bard would 'seek' Lichdom.


For some reason, I picture a Summoner being a really cool one. At least just because I picture his Eidolon being some horrible other-worldly horror. Or! Or! Plot twist, make a main character that SEEMS humanoid, and speaks to the party, and perhaps even SEEMS to be helping them. Then make it turn out to be the Lich's Eidolon in disguise or shapeshifted or something.

Then again, that's just my random take on it.

A lich bard sounds kinda cool, though, to be honest.

Sovereign Court

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A lich skald if you really want to be metal.


I approve. +1 to that.

Liberty's Edge

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I think a witch would make a very cool lich. It would be cool if his familiar was undead as well ...

The problem is, I'd have a hard time saying "witch lich" out loud at the table with a straight face :)


Take a Lawful evil heavens Oracle, perhaps give him the Enlightend Philosopher Archetype to demonstrate his pursuit of knowledge.

Add a touch of insanity and he became a lich in order to not just worship the heavens/night but to become the night.

"I am the darkness, the very night responds to my commands and empowers me"

IF you wish to optimize.....

Take Lore rather than heavens for your mystery.
Pump Charisma.
Charisma instead of dex to reflex save + AC.
Noble Scion Charisma to Initiative instead of Dex.
LICH Charisma to HP instead of con.
If enlightened philospher Charisma to all saves.

Charisma is your Power stat.


Bard Lich clearly!

Haunting choirs chanting in the background, souls of the damned swirling about and the very earth being rent asunder by the song of the End!

There are plenty of ways a Bard villain can make life hard for the heroes without personally smacking them around and a human lich have plenty of spells at his fingertips with good action economy for the final showdown. Just give it some minions to hang around, and be careful to give the lich some way to deal with fear/mind immune enemies.

Shadow Lodge

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One good argument for the Summoner: Give them two Eidolons.

One would be a corrupt undead horror without pity or honor and who became the summoner's eidolon when he became an undead monstrosity.

The other, unfettered, was their eidolon as a living being; who is trapped upon this plane until he can free his former master. You play this critter as a loyal friend, insane wildcard, murderous beast or a hundred other variations.

This underlies the tragedy of the summoner actually becoming a lich, especially if he had (or may still have) admirable qualities and put emapathisis on just how debased he has become.

Hope that is helpful,

Kerney


Now some tricks!

Irresistable Dance into Mythic Dirge of the Victorious Knights (via mythic shenanigans to cast in one round!) assails all three saves, exposes the party for the Lich minions and deals decent (irresistible :P) damage!

The Dirge Bard as mentioned earlier means that the Lich can use his buffs on himself - and gives him a way to easily acquire minions (Dominate other undead). In addition, you can tack on some nice necromancery spells.

Spells such as Shadow Bard and Virtuoso Performance allows the Lich to maintain multiple performances like Inspire Greatness on a living minion, Dirge of Dread for free debuff and cycle trough Deathly Performance -> Frightful Tune -> Something more fun : )

The bard kit contains plenty of teleport spells like Shadow Step and Bard's Escape as well as plenty of mind control spells for the bard to wander around and set powerful people on a collision path with the party.


Thanks for all of the suggestions so far! *furiously takes notes*


Lessah wrote:

Now some tricks!

Irresistable Dance into Mythic Dirge of the Victorious Knights (via mythic shenanigans to cast in one round!) assails all three saves, exposes the party for the Lich minions and deals decent (irresistible :P) damage!

The Dirge Bard as mentioned earlier means that the Lich can use his buffs on himself - and gives him a way to easily acquire minions (Dominate other undead). In addition, you can tack on some nice necromancery spells.

Spells such as Shadow Bard and Virtuoso Performance allows the Lich to maintain multiple performances like Inspire Greatness on a living minion, Dirge of Dread for free debuff and cycle trough Deathly Performance -> Frightful Tune -> Something more fun : )

The bard kit contains plenty of teleport spells like Shadow Step and Bard's Escape as well as plenty of mind control spells for the bard to wander around and set powerful people on a collision path with the party.

also with EH (arcane) he could grab animate dead himself! decent UMD (or my aforementioned oracle dip), a 'reliquary' weapon or shield, and some scrolls of desecrate (death knell optional) and he's raising the dead with the best of them.


No problems! Plenty of minds here at the forum eager to cook up vicious ideas it seems ^^

Now, if you decide to roll a Summoner Lich (or Cleric/Wizard) remember that Gate have no restriction on exactly WHERE on the plane one opens it - you can pick any point you like!

The moon has a beautiful grey shade and the lack of a breathable atmosphere might hamper the PCs - while the Lich merely enjoys his wordless Spell-Like abilities! ("Oh, sorry I can't hear you - I'm just going to assume you want me to gate in another Pit-Fiend* to fight!")

*At-Will Greater Dispel Magic is fun when the party rely on magic to breathe!

Give a minion Awesome Blow and send PCs into orbit!

And - for that bittersweet ending, make the phylactery the functional part of the only permanent portal away from the lair : )


Ughbash wrote:

Take a Lawful evil heavens Oracle, perhaps give him the Enlightend Philosopher Archetype to demonstrate his pursuit of knowledge.

Add a touch of insanity and he became a lich in order to not just worship the heavens/night but to become the night.

"I am the darkness, the very night responds to my commands and empowers me"

IF you wish to optimize.....

Take Lore rather than heavens for your mystery.
Pump Charisma.
Charisma instead of dex to reflex save + AC.
Noble Scion Charisma to Initiative instead of Dex.
LICH Charisma to HP instead of con.
If enlightened philospher Charisma to all saves.

Charisma is your Power stat.

note that you could replace the elightened philosopher ability with the divine protection feat (i think that was the name) from the ACG, which does the same thing much earlier than 20th. or dip 2 in antipaladin if one of the mythic powers you grab is that alignment-free one.

you could also exchange enlightened philosopher for ancient lorekeeper (lore mystery) with EH arcane and effectively become a pseudo-mystic theurge who is far more SAD.

speaking of theurges:
MYSTIC THEURGE - NECROMANCER EDITION

Spoiler:

CN (or CE) Dhampir (Ru-Shi) separatist cleric (urgathoa or nethys [magic(arcane)/fate inq.]) 4 / wizard (cruoromancer thassilonian mage (gluttony [+necro, -abju/ench])) 6 / mystic theurge 10
*levels go: clr 1/wiz 5/MT 10/wiz 1/clr 3*

stats (20pb):
str 16 (-2+2r), dex 18 (5-2r), con 20 (5), int 30 (5+2r), wis 26 (7), cha 16
wis/int/int/int/int (level), +6 all (gear), +4 int/wis (book/wish)

traits: signature spell (animate dead) / gifted adept (animate dead)

feats:
1 - spell focus (necromancy)
2 - scribe scroll*, command undead*
3 - varisian tattoo (necromancy, 'touch of fatigue' 3/day)
5 - bloatmage initiate (necromancy, constant medium load)
7 - theurgy
9 - spell specialization (animate dead)
11 - persistent spell
13 - greater spell focus (necromancy)
15 - quicken spell
17 - dazing spell
19 - spell perfection (animate dead)

SPELLS: animate dead, command undead, (greater) death knell (aura), and desecrate are important
WIZARD
0 (infinite), 1th (7+2/day), 2th (7+2/day), 3th (6+2/day), 4th (6+2/day), 5th (6+2/day), 6th (6+2/day), 7th (4+2/day), 8th (3+2/day), 9th (2+2/day)
CLERIC
0 (infinite), 1th (6+1/day), 2th (6+1/day), 3th (6+1/day), 4th (6+1/day), 5th (6+1/day), 6th (6+1/day), 7th (4+1/day), 8th (3+1/day), 9th (2+1/day)

MISC:
favored class (wizard)
esoteric training (35 fame [+3 cleric, +1 wizard])
strand of prayer beads ('standard' without healing/smiting, 18,000g)
\__>bead of karma: 1/day, +4 CL for 10 minutes (!!!)
moon circlet (CL +1 waxing, +2 full, -1 waning, -2 new)
'reliquary' +5 medium fort | spell storing mithral buckler (acts as permanent alter for desecrate)

CL 17/17 wizard/cleric
CL (animate dead) 40-43 (wiz/clr) (17 base, +4 focus, +4 spec, +2 trait, +2 tattoo, +2 bloatmage, +1 FCB, +1 stone, +(-1-+2) wayfinder, +4 bead, +2 circlet +1 death knell, +1 arcane beacon, +1 theurgy (cleric-only))
CL 30-33 (control undead) (17 base, +2 focus, +1 tattoo, +1 bloatmage, +1 FCB, +1 stone, +(-1-+2) wayfinder, +4 bead, +2 circlet, +1 death knell, +1 arcane beacon)

UNDEAD BUCKETS (not counting wayfinder variance):
animate (wizard) - 205 HD (blood command), 246 HD/cast (commanding infusion + desecrate)
animate (cleric) - 210 HD (blood command), 252 HD/cast (commanding infusion + desecrate)
feat - 6 HD
control undead - [one creature], 33 days/cast (refreshed every full moon)

ADVICE:
-if you don't want to worship urgathoa for some reason, go with separatist cleric (any deity with the magic domain) for the fate inquisition.
-notice that your HD created is more than your bucket limit--animate dead lets you keep anything you animate with that one casting--any 'overflow' is taken out of PREVIOUS castings of animate dead, so you can actually surpass your 410HD total animate limit (to a whopping 498 HD) as long as you dont cast any more animate deads from either bucket.

almost 500 HD of undead without outside sources is nothing to sneeze at.


AndIMustMask wrote:
Lessah wrote:
-//-
also with EH (arcane) he could grab animate dead himself! decent UMD (or my aforementioned oracle dip), a 'reliquary' weapon or shield, and some scrolls of desecrate (death knell optional) and he's raising the dead with the best of them.

To add further to this - the Lich can qualify for Mythic Eldritch Heirtage rather easily, which lets you basically steal an entire bloodline. I'm sure you can do something fun with that ^^


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If you're going the bard route, how about a disco lich? No? Well, then, have a bard lich, then a magus lich ...

A Love as Old as Time:

An elven bard deeply in love with a human woman a thousand years ago. He used a wish to ensure that her soul would not go beyond the mortal world. As a result, she was placed in a cycle of reincarnation. As an elf, the bard was long-lived, so he knew he would meet her again. He did find her next incarnation, but she did not recognize him. And then meddling heroes came, drove the bard away, and "rescued" the woman.

The bard, though an elf, realized he might not find his love again and educate her in her next life before he died. So ... he turned to lichdom. His agents comb the world for evidence of his long-dead lover. When his minions find a woman resembles her, they bring her to his lair, and he looks deep in her for love. But always ... disappointment. So much disappointment, even with so much beauty. As he sits on his throne and waits, he composes haunting melodies about his long-lost love.

His lair should be a long haul, filled with painted portraits of the same beautiful women. Beneath each is a single skull. For these women, you see, rebuffed him when he wooed them. So, he executed them, knowing that his love's soul would return again and again.

Style: His minions rove throughout the world, kidnapping likely young ladies and bringing them back to him. When he is not wooing a lady, he roams his chambers, restlessly painting portraits, playing his harpischord.

I realize I just cribbed the plot from Love at First Bite, but it works. Really, it works!

For the crunchy bits, I'd give him the court bard archetype, but redirect his heraldic expertise bonuses to other knowledge skills, and reflavor his debuffs as creepy bardic effects rather than jokey bardic effects. For added creepiness, I'd give him bard-type minions, living dead-eyed musicians who have come to study at the feet of an otherwise obscure, forgotten master of the craft.

Or ...

The Five Flames General:

The Five Flames General's true name is lost to time. It is said that he was the greatest soldier of his time, indeed of any generation, and a crafter of many cunning devices. When he was active, he commanded both spell and blade, and the lords he served were feared. Indeed, it was said that when a warlord retained the Five Flames General, other warlords would surrender rather than face his armies at war.

But then a great evil came: A great company of warriors, the Knights of the Eternal Sun, swept through the land. Like the Five Flames General, they were great warriors and leaders of men, commanders of both spell and sword. But the Knights of the Eternal Sun did not seek eternal war. Rather, they sought treaties and accords with the warlords, forging a thousand tiny kingdoms into the Empire of the Great Star.

As peace descended, the Five Flames General found his services were unwanted. He withdrew from the Empire of the Great Star, and the Five Flames General prayed to the gods of war. The gods of war assured the Five Flames General that peace was but temporary, and that war, that blessed state, would once again come. For did not fire always burn again, given enough fuel?

But the Five Flames General, now an old man, petitioned the gods of war once again. When would this time of war come? And would the Five Flames General see it again? The gods of war looked upon their servant with favor. They bade him seek out secrets of the darkest sorcery, that he might preserve his body and spirit for a day when sword and spell were once again needed, and when the world might once again know the name of the Five Flames General.

The Five Flames General followed the gods' instruction, and constructed a mighty magic. He sealed his soul within a golden star, and his body changed from living to undead. The Five Flames General bade his soldiers build a great work in the mountains. Then, once they were done, he slew the last of his soldiers, and bound their souls to the work in a dark spell. Then, he concealed this work, and made it his tomb.

For a thousand years, the Five Flames General has remained in his tomb. He has thought on the cunning devices, little mechanisms and clockworks he once created as a hobby, and he has spent his thousand years turning his hobby to war. Guarded by the angered spirits of his former soldiers and with a thousand clockwork soldiers ready to fight, the Five Flames General awaits.

The Five Flames General has sworn an oath to the gods of war. The first lord who can enter his tomb, defeat the dark souls that guard him, and find the Find Flames General will earn his loyalty. He will once gain take up spell and sword, and sweep across the land in the name of his new lord.

OK, the crunch.

The Five Flames General is a magus who has the Craft Constructs feat. He used to have untold wealth, but he has used most of it to construct a giant army of clockwork men and beasts. These creatures, at his command, will fight in the service of any lord the Five Flames General deems worthy. If such a lord turns to peace, then the Five Flames General will renounce him and return to his tomb to await a worthier liege.

The Five Flames General leads an army of clockworks, not undead. However, a variety of undead, haunt his tomb and cannot leave it. The Five Flames General bound them to his tomb a spell that played on their loyalty. If players seek to challenge the Five Flames General in his lair, they must pass through these undead.

The Five Flames General takes to the field himself only for great battles. Otherwise, he commands from his tomb. The Five Flames General also have a familiar, a simple bird named Blue Raven. Blue Raven will observe battles, and report their progress to the Five Flames General through their connection. Using the Sensory Link archmage ability, the Five Flames General can speak through his familiar, and even cast spells to aid in battle.

For a great battle, the Five Flames General will take to the field himself, wearing nigh-impenetrable armor and wielding a great polearm. It is said that the Five Flames General can only be killed if at least five descendants of the Knights of the Eternal Sun best him in battle.


i find magus is better suited to graveknight than lich--craps damage everywhere, loads of free undead+free desecrate+altar effect (that affects himself as well)


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OK, some shorter lich ideas:

The Socialite: This guy is a baron or something in a place like Geb or Ustalav. He's the lord of a small city. In this city, most of the grunt work is taken care of by mindless animated undead like zombies and skeletons. The other nobility in the city are intelligent undead -- wights, wraiths, vampires, and so on -- who exist in harmony with the Socialite. The "commoners" are the living, in two classes: servants, slaves, and freedmen. The servants are upper-crust servants to the intelligent undead -- butlers, maids guards, and so forth, attached to an undead lord's estate. The slaves are chattel -- living folk who are kept around only to appease the undead lords' appetites. Freedmen have it worst of all, oddly enough. Ostensibly, they conduct business with the undead lords and with the outside world, and are free to come and go as they please. In reality, they are bit players in the Socialite's favorite game. The Socialite constantly loves to hold parties. He invites all of the Undead Lords and plenty of freedmen to come to these soirees. Surrounded by death and decay, the Socialite chats amiably with all around him. It is incumbent on the freedmen to behave completely normally, to act as if it is a great honor to be invited to hobnob with nobility. If anybody breaks this masquerade, the Socialite accuses him of treason (or some made-up offense) and has them summarily executed.

The Fey Lord. Have you browsed through the list of fey critters? A lot of them could be truly fearsome if given class levels and turned into liches. How about a jumped-up redcap turned alchemist turned lich. This little bugger completely revels in carnage, and he's likely to have a whole troupe of debased fey minions to bring him blood sacrifices. A vivisectionist bogeyman may also be an option.

The Investigator. This class offers some potential. It's got spells (well, alchemical formulae), so could conceivably be a lich. I really like the idea of a witty, urbane investigator who hires the players early on to retrieve something for him ... and then they find out he's an evil lich!! A mastermind could also be an intriguing foe. From first level onward, he can use his catspaws to make Diplomacy checks on his behalf. And his 10th level immunity to diviniation spells could make dealing with him truly awful ... particularly if he is a powerful politician or underworld figure. Especially if he maintains alternate identities.

Finally, the shaman looks appealing, but I don't know what I'd do with it.


AndIMustMask wrote:
i find magus is better suited to graveknight than lich--craps damage everywhere, loads of free undead+free desecrate+altar effect (that affects himself as well)

Indeed. I was thinking that the Five Flames General would be more suited to grave knight after I wrote the above.


So many good ideas! You guys rock. Seriously.


So bloodrager lich is a thing i want to do now.


christos gurd wrote:
So bloodrager lich is a thing i want to do now.

That does sound like a really neat concept, but I don't think liches get benefits from morale bonuses.


Shub-Niggurath's cousin Al wrote:
christos gurd wrote:
So bloodrager lich is a thing i want to do now.
That does sound like a really neat concept, but I don't think liches get benefits from morale bonuses.

i can make a feat for that.


There's some precedent for it; there's an Android feat now that allows the race to obtain morale bonuses.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

An interesting variation/twist on the summoner might be to have the eidolon actually be the BBEG that pushed his "boss" into lichdom, the summoner proper was much too frail (low Con?) to keep up with the immortal Eidolon. You could have a duo interaction going somewhat resembling Scarface/the Ventrilquist (form Batman.)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

(For that matter, a magus with a Black Blade that pushed him into lichdom might be fun too.)


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grave fury:
Grave fury
Even the life has long left you, you feel the stirrings of former passion and fury.
Prerequisite
Must be undead
Benefit
You gain the benefits of morale bonuses granted by class features you possess. You are immune to morale bonuses from other sources as normal.
special
if you possess the undead bloodline and gain the benefit from a morale bonus to your constitution score, you may instead gain the morale bonus to your charisma score.

added some special love for the undead bloodlines since they lose out a bit for going undead.


If you do a lich bard, make sure their instrument is a creepy pipe organ.

made of bones and organs


Tirisfal wrote:

If you do a lich bard, make sure their instrument is a creepy pipe organ.

made of bones and organs

Bagpipes.


If you're going bard lich, I was about to suggest an undead halfling jester who tells knock-knock jokes. Then I remembered the best model for a powerful undead clown ... Pennywise.


To the OP:
Please look at 100% Crunch: Liches. It has 42 liches of many different classes!


pennywit wrote:
The Five Flames General..

This concept is screaming for a Terracota Army


pennywit wrote:
Tirisfal wrote:

If you do a lich bard, make sure their instrument is a creepy pipe organ.

made of bones and organs

Bagpipes.

No no no. The lich bard's instrument and phylactery must be a magically hardened adamantine vuvuzela.


If the party isn't going to mythic tread with caution. Mythic is a very powerful mechanic. My group and i agree that one tier is worth +1CR not the +1/2. All the paths have options to take two double standard actions a round. So you will have a high level caster, the lich template, powerful mythic abilities the party cant touch, and lots of time to prepare for the party.

Oh and some of the ideas on this thread are brilliant.


Every time I check back to this thread, I weep with joy at the great ideas. I think I'm going with the bard, but I'm unsure about what I want to do with it. I'm thinking either Dirge Bard, Arcane Duelist, or Magician. I'm also considering going Dragon Disciple, because who would expect an undead dragon-bard switch-hitter?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Another neat thing to consider is that with the ruling that spell-like abilities count for caster level prerequisites and stuff is that you could potentially have liches with no class levels at all- with their spell like abilities, fiends and other outsiders seem like naturals. Consider that, although mortality would not seem to be a factor with these timeless entities, they are more mortal than mortals in that once they die (by violence, etc.), that's it, they're done. No raising or resurrection. Many outsiders are freaky powerful- facing a close brush with death (and thus a challenge to their assumed immortality) might convince one to consider going down the dark road that would normally not be possible for them. A potentially fun twist might be to have a (fallen) celestial as a lich. It's not that hard for me to imagine that a particularly ardent celestial might see his holy mission compromised sometime and in the process of losing be left badly beaten, bloodied, and scarred. (Both physically and emotionally.) So for this celestial, lichdom would be a good "back up option" in case he fell in the war on evil. He'll do anything to advance the cause, after all.


ericthecleric wrote:

To the OP:

Please look at 100% Crunch: Liches. It has 42 liches of many different classes!

YOOOOOOOOOOOO

does this have gravknight version?

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