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So this has been brought up a few times and I’m not sure how to address it without discouraging new publishers (because I totally don’t mean to).
I LOVE seeing the inspiring and creative material 3rd party publishers produce. I’ve seen stuff I never would have thought have and things implemented in a way I never thought possible. However, I’ve noticed an issue with with relatively unproven publishers attempting large-scale, Kickstarter funded, products off the bat (or as their first product). I’ve seen a number of these fail and I feel it really weakens the position of the 3rd party industry as a whole.
This is more a public plea: produce a few smaller products before launching into your big KS funded campaign setting. You will learn SO much and as a result the quality of your dream project will be all that much better. I’d also suggest hitting up some of the veterans of a KS or two. I’m sure any of the 3rd party folks would be happy to regale you with stories of Kickstart successes and failures. Learn from them, it’s free information and it can only help you.
Once more, I want to clarify that I am not discouraging anyone from publishing. If you have someone you want to produce- go for it. I was in that place once too. I am just asking that you do a bit more research into what producing a major product requires and costs. This is as much for the publisher as for the fans. If you’ve been on these boards for a while, you've all heard the horror stories of kickstarters that ran out of money. With Kickstarters new guidelines in place for failed projects, this is more important than ever.
I wish you all the absolute best of luck and we, as a community, have some awesome Kickstarters going on right now. If anyone wants to share a story of success/failure/best practices for producing a 3rd party product on Kickstarter- I think this would be an awesome place to do that.
-Scott Gladstein (Little Red Goblin Games)
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And add 1 year to the anticipated delivery date. (No one will complain if you deliver early.)
You (or one of your major contributors) will have a personal crisis during the kickstarter - illness, illness of a loved one, job issue, printing problem, art problem, etc. Almost guaranteed.
Even with good communication, there's nothing more annoying than giving someone money for an anticipated delivery date only to have it delayed due to a personal problem. Life happens. Plan for it.
And for @#$%'s sake, do NOT start another Kickstarter if your first Kickstarter is late.
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Just some off the cuff things we’ve done:
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Here something that most DON'T do and should:
Spend three to six months BEFORE you start your Kickstarter talking about the Kickstarter and getting people excited. While three to six months will be a LONG time, it will people the time to talk about, spread and get other people interested in your Kickstarter. Often overlooked but very important.
Oh, and one more pet peeve - don't use your Kickstarter updates (when it's already late) to say anything like "I only have one more project to get out of the way before I can finally get back to getting out this Kickstarter".
I really don't care about your other projects if you are late on the Kickstarter I've paid for.
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Here something that most DON'T do and should:
Spend three to six months BEFORE you start your Kickstarter talking about the Kickstarter and getting people excited. While three to six months will be a LONG time, it will people the time to talk about, spread and get other people interested in your Kickstarter. Often overlooked but very important.
I'm a big supporter of kickstarters, but this kind of thing is likely to irritate me and mean ill support something else.
It might be a good strategy overall (who can say?) but it's not universally positive in its effect.
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Here is some more general advice:
1. Pick an update interval during the project and commit to it. At least once a month. Present a status of what's done, what's being worked on, and any obstacles or impediments. Remember, no news is BAD news to your backers.
2. For physical rewards, consider making shipping a separate payment due when the rewards are ready to ship. For projects with deliverables a long time away, shipping costs can and will increase. I've seen this affect projects where other corners get cut in trying to account for the shipping hikes.
3. Avoid project campaigns whose funding deadline coincides with times of great expense for potential backers, i.e. the end of December, the week after GenCon, etc.
4. Everyone loves stretch goals, but I've seen projects sink under the wait of too much extra work because things went TOO well during the KS campaign. It's more feasible to make "extra" stretch goals digital only, where costs are more controllable.
5. When someone uses the Contact link on the main project page, respond to it within a day or two at the latest. If you have planned away time (family commitments, planned vacation, etc.), just let backers know that there will be a delay in responding during that window of time.
By the way, SO glad people didn't take this as an attack on anyone! Good advice all around!
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Here something that most DON'T do and should:
Spend three to six months BEFORE you start your Kickstarter talking about the Kickstarter and getting people excited. While three to six months will be a LONG time, it will people the time to talk about, spread and get other people interested in your Kickstarter. Often overlooked but very important.
I'm a big supporter of kickstarters, but this kind of thing is likely to irritate me and mean ill support something else.
It might be a good strategy overall (who can say?) but it's not universally positive in its effect.
Totally agree with you here Steve. I've been burned by a few Kickstarters -- some of which got a lot of press.
I understand that this might be important from a publisher's standpoint. However, Scott and DaveMage's initial posts make me, as a KS backer, more inclined to support those publisher's who follow those guidelines.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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For Legendary Games, we made sure our first Kickstarter was tight and focused, mostly involving compiling, editing, and reconfiguring 17 horror-themed smaller products into a single hardback Gothic Campaign Compendium, which allowed us to turn the book around within 6 months from when we launched the Kickstarter to getting books shipped to backers.
Getting the logistics of a smaller Kickstarter under our belt was good preparation for our second, much larger Mythic Mania Kickstarter. Having somebody on staff who has helped run successful Kickstarters before is also a good bit of advice, as we did in bringing Rachel Ventura on board, who had managed several KS with Frog God Games before coming to work for us.
Finish the writing for the project before launching a Kickstarter for it. Use the Kickstarter moneey for art, layout, etc.
For Legendary Games, we made sure our first Kickstarter was tight and focused, mostly involving compiling, editing, and reconfiguring 17 horror-themed smaller products into a single hardback Gothic Campaign Compendium, which allowed us to turn the book around within 6 months from when we launched the Kickstarter to getting books shipped to backers.
Getting the logistics of a smaller Kickstarter under our belt was good preparation for our second, much larger Mythic Mania Kickstarter. Having somebody on staff who has helped run successful Kickstarters before is also a good bit of advice, as we did in bringing Rachel Ventura on board, who had managed several KS with Frog God Games before coming to work for us.
Yeah, "hire Rachel" is another bit of good advice for 3PPs. :)
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We use kickstarter with some frequency these days, and you guys are all absolutely correct.
Here's some more tips I've learned the hard way:
Promise less, deliver more. The more you promise, the more you have to deliver. You can always surprise people with that extra cool thing, but don't let it grind your efforts to a halt or break your bank because of unanticipated costs.
Come to the table with 95% of your work done. Don't dream of something and then put it on kickstarter. Do it, and then use kickstarter to help fund it to a larger audience or improve it.
Keep your funding goals low. You can always use stretch goals to encourage more funding. $9000 is better than a $10,000 goal that goes unfunded.
Be in contact frequently with other business partners. You might find yourself making promises you can't keep because another business sells to new owners, no longer manufactures your desired product or just plain forgets.
Here something that most DON'T do and should:
Spend three to six months BEFORE you start your Kickstarter talking about the Kickstarter and getting people excited. While three to six months will be a LONG time, it will people the time to talk about, spread and get other people interested in your Kickstarter. Often overlooked but very important.
I'm a big supporter of kickstarters, but this kind of thing is likely to irritate me and mean ill support something else.
It might be a good strategy overall (who can say?) but it's not universally positive in its effect.
I'll second Steve. I really don't care for anything that will happen in 3-6 months. People forget about things in 3-6 months. About a month is generally good.
And directly to LPJ, I avoid your threads because of your aggressive and teaser heavy advertising. That approach is probably good for some huge industry like music or movies, something that caters to general population, but not something as limited as 3rd party publishers for Pathfinder RPG. IMO, anyway.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is a very interesting topic to me, mostly as I am planning on starting my kickstarter next month.
I agree with most of what is said here and would love some feedback.
What I have done so far.
1.) Project writing is complete. I am on the second editorial pass right now, this is of course with an editor not simply reviewing myself.
2.) Layout and trade dress are complete.
3.) Art is 60% complete, I am being slightly picky.
4.) Product is small sized 40-45 pages depending on my decision on some splash page art.
5.) Filed for an LLC in my new companies name. This is what I am waiting for so as to kickstart, I need to get my filing return and then publish my newspaper announcements.
6.) Pricing is complete.
7.) I have Kickstarter rewards mapped out.
8.) I have chosen a printer, however a test print is a good idea.
9.) I have some stretch goals planned but honestly I expect this to be a smaller but successful project.
Things I need to do:
A.) Begin drumming up interest, I was thinking 2 weeks before launch.
B.) Make my Kickstarter video. This is my largest hurdle as I see it.
C.) Get a Test print.
D.) As the product is going to be finished in the next week or so, I was planning on having delivery dates for the holidays in December 2014 for PDF's and in February/march 2015 for physical rewards. From what I am hearing though it seems like it might be a better idea to set all goals for mid-2015 to late 2015?
Anyway just thought I would share my experience.
If anyone has any advice I am always very receptive and appreciative.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games
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Making a video doesn't need to be a challenge. You can make an elaborate one if you like, with costumes and a detailed script, or with fades and wipes and screencaps from your stuff, but most people just fire up the webcam on their computer or smartphone and talk into the camera.
Keep it short and sweet, about 3-4 minutes should be all you need. If you can tinker around with iMovie or something similar and include some art from your product, that would definitely help, but you don't have to go crazy with it.
Be clear, direct, and enthusiastic. If you want them to be excited for your product, YOU should be excited for your product. Don't be fake, but show that you are gung-ho to get this thing done and that it's gonna be awesome.
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I'd also suggest making some sort of limited preview available, either from the project or from previously released material. This will help get prospective backers a good feel for the style of the writing and how the product will look.
Edit: I'll also say that I may watch the video for publishers I don't know. I rarely ever watch them for publishers I am familiar with. The information is the important thing (esp. any mock-ups you may have, along with a disclaimer that it's not in its final form). I wouldn't sweat any production extras to make the video look more exciting. Short and sweet is the way to go.
I totally would always suggest having a preview of the product.
Lessons I've learned:
1. Decide in advance if the Kickstarter is to justify your time spent in development, or to capitalize on time already spent. Every decision you make going forward should reflect your goals, from your delivery dates to how you spend your time while the Kickstarter is running to what kind of updates you should put out. And especially...
2. Think carefully about additional development you are promising, above what you are already doing, and especially modest stretch goals.
3. You can't say nothing. Some people may not want to hear about other stuff going on ("I have another project to get out of the way") but you can't wait forever to post something because you have another project to get out of the way.
4. Long-term projects require long-term planning.
5. Kickstarters are crazy. Even if try to ignore it till the end, when you finally come back to it, all the comments, all the money, and all the commitments you made are going to change how you see the project. Take a deep breath and take care of practical matters first. It's hard but you're going to have to...
6. Worry about what other people think second. Your first commitment is to protect your integrity by following through on what you promised. There will be heat, but if carry forward with honesty, good intentions, and integrity, people are going to stick with you.
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3. You can't say nothing. Some people may not want to hear about other stuff going on ("I have another project to get out of the way") but you can't wait forever to post something because you have another project to get out of the way.
Here's the thing about this one, though. If you have other projects, get them done BEFORE YOU DO THE KICKSTARTER!!!! If you can't make the Kickstarter your priority, you are not ready to do the Kickstarter.
One of the Kickstarters I have supported is over a year late and up until a month ago still had updates from the creator that he has to finish another project first. So, so infuriating....
This is a very interesting topic to me, mostly as I am planning on starting my kickstarter next month.
I agree with most of what is said here and would love some feedback.
What I have done so far.
1.) Project writing is complete. I am on the second editorial pass right now, this is of course with an editor not simply reviewing myself.
2.) Layout and trade dress are complete.
3.) Art is 60% complete, I am being slightly picky.
4.) Product is small sized 40-45 pages depending on my decision on some splash page art.
5.) Filed for an LLC in my new companies name. This is what I am waiting for so as to kickstart, I need to get my filing return and then publish my newspaper announcements.
6.) Pricing is complete.
7.) I have Kickstarter rewards mapped out.
8.) I have chosen a printer, however a test print is a good idea.
9.) I have some stretch goals planned but honestly I expect this to be a smaller but successful project.
Things I need to do:
A.) Begin drumming up interest, I was thinking 2 weeks before launch.
B.) Make my Kickstarter video. This is my largest hurdle as I see it.
C.) Get a Test print.
D.) As the product is going to be finished in the next week or so, I was planning on having delivery dates for the holidays in December 2014 for PDF's and in February/march 2015 for physical rewards. From what I am hearing though it seems like it might be a better idea to set all goals for mid-2015 to late 2015?
Anyway just thought I would share my experience.
If anyone has any advice I am always very receptive and appreciative.
Sounds good to me. Looking forward to the announcement. :)
With regard to videos, I personally don't watch them. I think they're obviously important (based on comments from other backers) but please make sure the information is available on the kickstarter page directly (or possibly via a link to your homepage).
As a broader comment, I've seen several businesses inadvertently restrict access to their information ("oh it's all on Facebook" is one of my pet peeves). Getting the essential information into as many different venues as possible can't be a bad thing.
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Looking forward to the announcement. :)
Thanks! It has been a long road, but I have received some wonderful advice and help from the amazing people her on the boards.
Another thing I'd suggest as a potential backer is to give your list of rewards/addons/stretch goals to someone before launch who has no idea what the project is about.
It's obviously a difficult thing to balance against flexibility and broad appeal, but a massive list of backer levels and addons can be intimidating to parse. I've definitely passed on some projects based on the reward structure being too incomprehensible to an outsider.
3. You can't say nothing. Some people may not want to hear about other stuff going on ("I have another project to get out of the way") but you can't wait forever to post something because you have another project to get out of the way.
Here's the thing about this one, though. If you have other projects, get them done BEFORE YOU DO THE KICKSTARTER!!!! If you can't make the Kickstarter your priority, you are not ready to do the Kickstarter.
One of the Kickstarters I have supported is over a year late and up until a month ago still had updates from the creator that he has to finish another project first. So, so infuriating....
I get that and I feel your frustration.
But I will tell you right now it would be financially impossible for me to finish up all my ongoing projects, devote a month to just doing one Kickstarter, then working fulltime on nothing but that Kickstarter money until the project is completed. When I'm talking about "other projects" I don't mean a series of pie-in-the-sky Kickstarter projects, I mean other small projects and freelancer gigs that are putting food on my table.
And the OTHER thing people don't seem to like is a second round of crowd-funding.
There is a writing side of things, and a development side of things, and a business side of things, and if you're doing them all at once, it's pretty much a given that you have more than one project going at a time. It's also the case that in creative endeavors, sometimes things just take long longer. It doesn't serve anyone's purposes for me to sit around waiting for inspiration to strike. I think a lot of times, when people say, "What is going on? It seemed to be going so well and then they dropped off the face of the Earth," I often suspect that the project leader did exactly that. Eventually, they ran out of money before they found the solutions they were looking for.
And then there's writer's block. Generally speaking, it's more productive overall to have several things going. Problems completing any given project are usually more psychological than actual.
Big projects are big. I'm not going to drop everything and work full-time on a year-long project unless the Kickstarter raised a year-long salary.
So I get your frustration. But when someone says, "How dare you work on other projects?" I just don't know how to answer that. If you are part of a Kickstarter and the creator is NOT occasionally announcing they are getting other stuff out of the way, it's not that they don't have other projects, it's just that you happen to be on the one they are prioritizing at the time.
I've run a couple of Kickstarters that did not make. In both cases I was out hundreds of dollars in development. In one situation, I plowed that development into a new version of the project. In another, it's just money spent. If I wrote 2/3 of a book, plowed $1000 to $2000 in development in it, then cleared my schedule to work on that book, ran a Kickstarter, and it didn't fund... I could end up homeless on the street with my kids, I guess. Or maybe I'd just be on my own after my partner divorced me. :)
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For me I don't expect you to do nothing but the kickstarter. I do expect you to schedule some time towards it as an ongoing thing though - not put it on the backburner while something else gets done first.
I fully expect you to have some projects beginning, some finishing up and others at various stages of completion throughout whilst fulfilling the kickstarter I helped fund. What I find irritating is when it appears that nothing is happening with the kickstarter project (that has already received money) while the project creator focuses on something else that hasn't yet been paid for. It makes me feel like I'm paying for you to work on someone else's stuff, rather than mine.
I suspect it's often about communication though - that the project hasn't really stalled but just looks like it to us backers. That goes back to the oft-repeated plea for regular, post-funding updates, even if they're a pain in the bum. I think dreamscarred press should be the model here. They're quite late, but I'm totally one with it because I've been kept in the loop all the way along.
I think that's right, Steve, and that's why I listed it as a lesson learned on my part. Bad updates are bad, but no updates are worse.
Ok, to clarify, (and what I should have said) it's not so much the working on other projects, it's the working on other projects when your Kickstarter is *late*.
So, if you have other projects that may cause your Kickstarter to be late, then choose one:
1. Don't do a Kickstarter
2. Make sure you include in your Kickstarter "challenges" section that you have other projects that could delay this Kickstarter delivery - perhaps up to 2 years or even longer. (That way, I know to stay the hell away from your Kickstarter. :) )
Not that I'm bitter or anything... :)
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I don't have any issues with other products being worked on while a Kickstarter is still being worked on (and late), it's more starting Kickstarter #2 which backers of the first project can see as a lack of commitment on the first project. That being said, if the first project has good communication despite being late, it's much less of an issue. People can understand that if the first project is waiting on shipments from China, that it's not an imposition to run KS #2 since there really is no overlap of effort.
Nope, I would not say that DaveMage. In fact I agree with your general sentiment. I tire of companies kiting kickstarters and then not completing what they started.
Making a video doesn't need to be a challenge. You can make an elaborate one if you like, with costumes and a detailed script, or with fades and wipes and screencaps from your stuff, but most people just fire up the webcam on their computer or smartphone and talk into the camera.
Keep it short and sweet, about 3-4 minutes should be all you need. If you can tinker around with iMovie or something similar and include some art from your product, that would definitely help, but you don't have to go crazy with it.
Be clear, direct, and enthusiastic. If you want them to be excited for your product, YOU should be excited for your product. Don't be fake, but show that you are gung-ho to get this thing done and that it's gonna be awesome.
"Hello. I'm John Videogames." : D
In all seriousness, I usually judge a Kickstarter by the quality of the creators' work. If the creator is new to the scene, I'm much less likely to invest unless there is clear evidence of the creator's talent and motivation on the page. If I'm already familiar with the creators, this isn't quite as important, but after the Godus fiasco even a name with a solid history of stellar products isn't going to be enough all on its own--I need to see enough meat on the bone to convince me that the product will be both complete and awesome. As for the video (if any), it doesn't have to be a big production; just explain the product and show as much as you can of the good stuff.
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Having somebody on staff who has helped run successful Kickstarters before is also a good bit of advice, as we did in bringing Rachel Ventura on board, who had managed several KS with Frog God Games before coming to work for us.
This. Bookmark this. Getting someone with experience should be Job One. Rachel certainly knows a lot about Kickstarters. Not to be forward, but she would be a resource for people to consider.
SG
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All good ideas. I think we should compile this into a doc or something.
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I have stopped supporting Kickstarters where the authors don't have the majority of the writing already done. If they have had past kickstarters that failed in a way that resulted in backers losing money, I won't support them, either.
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I can't stress updates enough. Take a look at Ultimate Psioncs. It's almost 2 years to the day since it was funded. The main book is done, and quite a few of the other rewards are done, but there was simply so much to do because the project received so much funding that there's still a good chunk left.
Am I upset? Nope. There's been 140 updates with playtesting for practically every step of the way, art previews, production updates, etc.
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Came across this Kickstarter retrospective today, which has some good relevance to this thread despite being for a boardgame.