MURI MURI MURI MURI MURI MURI! - Help me flesh this build out.


Advice


Ok, so combining Maneuver Master Monk plus Monk of the Four Winds, you get one sick combo.

MMM has an extraordinary ability that allows you perform two combat maneuvers as a standard action.

MotFW has a supernatural ability that allows you to spend 6 ki to perform three standard actions in a turn, which can be movement, skill check, attack, or an extraordinary ability. With this movement not provoking

Dirty Trick Master says that if you successfully perform a Dirty Trick maneuver twice on a subject, you get an improved condition (pinned, dazed, nauseated, frightened). A nauseated and dazed enemy is helpless, a pinned enemy is severely crippled.

MMM also has an extraordinary ability that allows them to add Wisdom to CMB.

To boot, once an hour after level 17, the MotFW can charge moving 10 times its speed as a pounce.

Ok, so I think it's pretty clear where I'm getting at:

1. Find a Balor.
2. Dimentional Agility Abudant Step -regained through Qingqong- onto the Balor (move action).
3. Add Wis to CMB.
5. Get the Balor nauseated with two dirty tricks on it as a standard action.
6. Prevent it from leaving your range with its movement.
7. Slow time.
8. Get four dirty tricks on it, rendering it helpless.
9. Medusa's Wrath his face off, or alternatively, Coup de Grace it to a pulp to regain ki from Ki Leech to do it over again.

How would you go about building this bad dude? Could she take on every single Beastmass monster?


Cool idea!

I do think it's questionable whether combat maneuvers are considered "melee attacks", and therefore whether you can use them with Slow Time. I don't know if there has been any clarification on this, but several times in various places the rules talk about "a melee attack or combat maneuver", which implies to me that "melee attack" refers to a normal damage-dealing attack and not a combat maneuver. (Sidenote: this ruling would also affect whether you could use Opportune Parry and Riposte against all combat maneuvers.) So, ask your GM whether or not he considers combat maneuvers to count as "melee attacks".


Just as a side note, this isn't available until level 15 (at least for the Dirty Trick part).

Balor's also have a CMD of 54. Which while not impossible by any means, is not a push over. I would really need to see what you CMD was at the appropriate level to attempt this.

In any event, this is a neat trick, but doesn't become available at all until 12th level. And I think before that time is going to be incredibly unsatisfying to play.

Also, how do you plant to prevent it from leaving your range with it's movement?

And also how big is your ki pool? I think at best you might be able to do this twice per day. Or you will have to work hard to refill your ki pool using ki leech, and I doubt you will critical enough times to completely restore what you use against a single enemy.

I will admit this is clever though.


RumpinRufus wrote:

Cool idea!

I do think it's questionable whether combat maneuvers are considered "melee attacks", and therefore whether you can use them with Slow Time. I don't know if there has been any clarification on this, but several times in various places the rules talk about "a melee attack or combat maneuver", which implies to me that "melee attack" refers to a normal damage-dealing attack and not a combat maneuver. (Sidenote: this ruling would also affect whether you could use Opportune Parry and Riposte against all combat maneuvers.) So, ask your GM whether or not he considers combat maneuvers to count as "melee attacks".

No one says they are melee attacks. They are an extraordinary ability granted by the Maneuver Master Monk - Sweeping Maneuvers.

What I'd like to know is whether I can replace an attack of opportunity for a Dirty Trick... that would be totes malotes sweet.

Claxon wrote:

Just as a side note, this isn't available until level 15 (at least for the Dirty Trick part).

Balor's also have a CMD of 54. Which while not impossible by any means, is not a push over. I would really need to see what you CMD was at the appropriate level to attempt this.

In any event, this is a neat trick, but doesn't become available at all until 12th level. And I think before that time is going to be incredibly unsatisfying to play.

Also, how do you plant to prevent it from leaving your range with it's movement?

And also how big is your ki pool? I think at best you might be able to do this twice per day. Or you will have to work hard to refill your ki pool using ki leech, and I doubt you will critical enough times to completely restore what you use against a single enemy.

I will admit this is clever though.

I think early game will be fine. I'd go full Dex and pick up Agile Maneuvers, Improved Dirty Trick and Weapon Finesse on level one, then transition into a bodyguard for the rest of the early game.

It sadly doesn't come online until level 15 (I need BAB +11), but double dirty trick on the same guy is not a bad call at any point, it basically takes them out of the battle.

How to get Balor not to move? Stand Still! If he does move, I can always Abundant Step onto him and daze him, but I need sure-fire CMB.

Here's a sample build I just threw around.

Spoiler:
Muri
Male Human monk 20 Archetypes Maneuver Master, Monk of the Four Winds, Qinggong Monk (Diamond Soul), Qinggong Monk (Tongue of the Sun and Moon), Qinggong Monk (Wholeness of Body),
LE Medium humanoid (human)
Init +18, Senses darkvision (120 ft.); Perception +31
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DEFENSE
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AC 50, touch 42, flat-footed 37 (+8 armor, +5 deflection, +12 Dex, +1 dodge, )
hp 202 ((20d8)+100)
Fort +24, Ref +29, Will +26
Defensive Abilities improved evasion,
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OFFENSE
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Speed 90 ft., Empty Body, Fast Movement, High Jump
Melee flurry of maneuvers +29/+24/+19 (2d10+16) +34/+33/+27 (maneuvers)
Special Attacks Ki Leech, Ki Pool, Slow Fall,

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STATISTICS
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Str 16, Dex 34, Con 20, Int 7, Wis 26, Cha 7,
Base Atk +15; CMB +32 (+36 dirty trick and grapple); CMD 60 (62 vs dirty trick and grapple)
Feats Agile Maneuvers, Bestow Luck, Combat Reflexes, Death from Above, Defiant Luck, Dirty Trick Master, Dodge, Elemental Fist, Greater Dirty Trick, Greater Grapple, Great Fortitude, Improved Dirty Trick, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Inexplicable Luck, Medusa's Wrath, Stand Still, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +35, Perception +31, Sense Motive +31,
Traits Indomitable Faith, Reactionary,
Languages Common
SQ ac bonus, aspect master, aspect of the tiger, barkskin, bonus feat, bonus feat, bonus ki (16x), empty body, fast movement, flurry of maneuvers, high jump, immortality, maneuver defense, maneuver training, meditative maneuver, reliable maneuver, skilled, slow time, sweeping maneuver, weapon and armor proficiency, whirlwind maneuver,
Combat Gear Boots of Speed (10 charges),
Other Gear headband of inspired wisdom +6, jingasa of the fortunate soldier, eyes of the dragon, amulet of mighty fists +4 (agile), bracers of armor +8, ring of protection +5, belt of physical perfection +6, cloak of resistance +5, monk's robe, boots of speed, manual of quickness of action (+4), flurry of blows, 1000.0 gp
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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AC Bonus (Ex) When unarmored and unencumbered, you add +13 to your AC and your CMD. These bonuses apply even against touch attacks or when you are flat-footed. You lose these bonuses when you are immobilized or helpless, when you wear any armor, when you carry a shield, or when you carry a medium or heavy load.

Aspect Master (Su) At 17th level, a monk of the four winds must choose an aspect of one of the great spirits of the world. Once made, this choice cannot be changed. This spirit grants the monk a new appearance and new abilities, as well as changing or augmenting the monk's personality in some way. Once this choice is made, it cannot be changed. The monk must abide by the alignment restrictions of the aspect. If the monk ever changes his alignment to something outside the aspect's alignment restrictions, he loses this ability and cannot regain it unless his alignment later changes again to match that of the aspect. This ability replaces timeless body.

Aspect of the Tiger Dark stripes appear on the monk's skin, and his face becomes more feline. His eyes become catlike, with vertical pupils, and his canines enlarge. Once per hour, the monk can move at 10 times his normal land speed when he makes a charge and is treated as if he had the pounce ability. The tiger is swift, fierce, and deadly - a monk of any alignment can take on the aspect of the tiger.

Barkskin (Sp) Spend 1 ki point to use barkskin (self-only) as a spell-like ability (caster level 20).

Bonus Feat Humans select one extra feat at 1st level.

Bonus Feat In addition to normal monk bonus feats, a maneuver master may select any Improved combat maneuver feat (such as Improved Overrun) as a bonus feat. At 6th level and above, he may select any Greater combat maneuver feat (such as Greater Grapple) as a bonus feat. At 10th level and above, he may select any maneuver Strike feat (such as Tripping Strike) as a bonus feat.

Bonus Ki (16x) Add +1/4 to the monk's ki pool.

Empty Body (Su) You can assume an ethereal state for 1 minute as though using the spell Etherealness. Using this ability is a move action that consumes 3 points for your Ki pool. This ability only affects you and cannot be used to make other creatures ethereal.

Evasion

Fast Movement (Ex) You gain a +60 feet enhancement bonus to your land speed. If you wear armor or carry a medium or heavy load, you lose this extra speed.

Flurry of Maneuvers (Ex) At 1st level, as part of a full attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a -2 penalty when using a flurry. At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional -3 penalty on combat maneuver checks. At 15th level, a maneuver master may attempt a third additional combat maneuver, with an additional -7 penalty on combat maneuver checks. This ability replaces flurry of blows.

High Jump (Ex) You can add +20 to all Acrobatics checks made to jump, both for vertical jumps and horizontal jumps. In addition, you always count as having a running start when making jump checks using Acrobatics. By spending 1 point from your ki pool as a swift action, you gain a +20 bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for 1 round.

Immortality (Su) At 20th level, a monk of the four winds no longer ages. He remains in his current age category forever. Even if the monk comes to a violent end, he spontaneously reincarnates (as the spell) 24 hours later in a place of his choosing within 20 miles of the place he died. The monk must have visited the place in which he returns back to life at least once. This ability replaces perfect self.

Improved Evasion (Ex) You can avoid damage from many area-effect attacks. If you make a successful Reflex save against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, you instead take no damage, and even on a failed saving throw you take only half damage. If you are helpless, you do not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Improved Evasion

Indomitable Faith You were born in a region where your faith was not popular, yet you never abandoned it. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Will saves as a result.

Ki Leech (Sp) Spend 0 ki points to use ki leech as a spell-like ability (caster level 20).

Ki Pool (Su) You have a pool of 18 ki points, supernatural energy you can use to accomplish amazing feats. As long as you have at least 1 point in your ki pool, you can make a ki strike. Ki strike allows your unarmed attacks to be treated as magic, cold iron, silver, lawful, and adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and bypassing hardness. By spending 1 point from your ki pool, you can make one additional attack at your highest attack bonus when making a Flurry of Blows attack. In addition, you can spend 1 point to increase your speed by 20 feet for 1 round. Finally, you can spend 1 point from your ki pool to give yourself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. Each use of these powers is activated as a swift action. The ki pool is replenished after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive.

Maneuver Defense (Ex) At 3rd level, if a maneuver master has an Improved combat maneuver feat, any creature attempting that maneuver against the maneuver master provokes an attack of opportunity, even if it would not normally do so. This ability replaces still mind.

Maneuver Training (Ex) A monk uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus when calculating his combat maneuver bonus. Base attack bonuses granted from other classes are unaffected and are added normally.

Meditative Maneuver (Ex) At 5th level, as a swift action, a maneuver master can add his Wisdom modifier on any combat maneuver check he makes before the beginning of his next turn. He must choose which combat maneuver check to grant the bonus to before making the combat maneuver check. This ability replaces purity of body.

Reactionary You were bullied often as a child, but never quite developed an offensive response. Instead, you became adept at anticipating sudden attacks and reacting to danger quickly. You gain a +2 trait bonus on Initiative checks.

Reliable Maneuver (Ex) At 4th level, as a swift action, a maneuver master may spend 1 point from his ki pool before attempting a combat maneuver. He can roll his combat maneuver check for that maneuver twice and use the better result. This ability replaces slow fall.

Skilled Humans gain an additional skill rank at first level and one additional rank whenever they gain a level.

Slow Fall Spend 0 ki points to use slow fall as the monk ability.

Slow Time (Su) At 12th level, a monk of the four winds can use his ki to slow time or quicken his movements, depending on the observer. As a swift action, the monk can expend 6 ki points to gain three standard actions during his turn instead of just one. The monk can use these actions to do the following: take a melee attack action, use a skill, use an extraordinary ability, or take a move action. The monk cannot use these actions to cast spells or use spell-like abilities, and cannot combine them to take full-attack actions. Any move actions the monk makes this turn do not provoke attacks of opportunity. This ability replaces abundant step.

Sweeping Maneuver (Ex) At 11th level, a maneuver master can make two combat maneuvers as a standard action, as long as neither maneuver requires the maneuver master to move. He may perform two identical maneuvers against two adjacent enemies, or he may perform two different combat maneuvers against the same target. This ability replaces diamond body.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency Monks are proficient with club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling. Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.

Whirlwind Maneuver (Ex) At 15th level, once per day as a full-round action, a maneuver master can attempt a single combat maneuver against every opponent he threatens, as long as the combat maneuver does not require movement. He makes a single combat maneuver check, and it applies to all targets. This ability replaces quivering palm.

What you do:

- GO TIGER FORM! And do a LEAPING charge towards your prey, a yummy Balor.
- Swift action to gain Wisdom to CMB.
- While in mid-air slow-falling, do a flurry of maneuvers. You are looking at 42 CMB + 5 from Death from Above and +4 from Amulet of Mighty Fists and you can also add +1 from Haste, for a total of 52 CMB. If you think the Death from Above thing is cheesy, then you can just use Bestow Luck to make sure one hits. On a 1, reroll with Defiant Luck! Stack those dirty tricks for funtimes.
- You got a pinned Balor in front of you! He can't do s@#&. Alternatively, nauseate it if you want to play with it a bit.
- Now that the Balor lost its Dex bonus, he's easy to burst down with negative conditions and Medusa's Wrath, not to mention Coups de Grace.


No thoughts on the build?

Perhaps ideas on a non-WF alternative? I honestly think that the two feats it costs to get WF and Agile Maneuvers are worth the low damage early on, since there isn't much I'd rather spend feats on.

My only concern with the build posted above is that it should need Stunning Fist to deal with a Tor Linnorm...

Shadow Lodge

Keep in mind that you can't actually get Abundant Step back with Qinggong, according to the FAQ that lets it stack with multiple archetypes.

Also, you could Dirty Trick him 3 times in a row to get him Panicked(as the Dirty Trick to Shaken doesn't say it doesn't stack with itself).


Nice! Still, the question is to know how to reliably hit with four Dirty Tricks.

Optimizing CMB is the priority here...

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