Can an aasimar with Scion of Humanity not know they are an aasimar?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I was thinking about building a character (probably rogue) that was an aasimar, but I got to thinking "what if he didn't know he was an aasimar?" I am a huge fan of Scion of Humanity. I just wanted to know if anyone had ideas for how that would work?

For me, at least, the obvious issues would be the starting age (60+ years but looks like a young adult 16+) and the racial traits like darkvision and spell-like abilities. Everything else could be explained away, such as energy resistance as an attack "not being so bad" or skill bonuses as "always had a knack for..." and such.

I just wanted to get your guys' ideas and opinions on how to work this character development opportunity.


I have a PFS character that does this. He's an old man and just starting to get to the point where him not keeling over is suspicious


perfectly doable.

Anecdote: one of the guys I play with is portraying a dwarf who thinks he's an elf. If that's doable then a human looking guy thinking that he's human is easy-peasy.

and remember, between the 1000+ feats and archetypes out there, not to mention actual class abilities, having some magical gift is not that uncommon or weird. Just because you know he's a aasimar doesn't mean that he does.


LuxuriantOak wrote:
perfectly doable.

Care to elaborate?

A human child should be able to form simple sentences around 2 years old and simple conversations around 3 years old. As an Aasimar, this would be pushed back to age 11 or so. That is very, very slow development. I doubt there are special-education schools in Golarion, so what would happen to a child that suffers from such extremely slow growth and development?

By the time the aasimar is 40, the parents could both be dead from old-age. That happens sometimes with humans, but the aasimar is still about 12-years old in growth and development.

That 60+ years of life really messes things up.


cheechako wrote:
LuxuriantOak wrote:
perfectly doable.

Care to elaborate?

A human child should be able to form simple sentences around 2 years old and simple conversations around 3 years old. As an Aasimar, this would be pushed back to age 11 or so. That is very, very slow development. I doubt there are special-education schools in Golarion, so what would happen to a child that suffers from such extremely slow growth and development?

By the time the aasimar is 40, the parents could both be dead from old-age. That happens sometimes with humans, but the aasimar is still about 12-years old in growth and development.

That 60+ years of life really messes things up.

We don't know if they age at exactly the same rate the entire time or only hit maturity later (otherwise yes, elves spend 20 years in diapers)


BigNorseWolf wrote:
We don't know if they age at exactly the same rate the entire time or only hit maturity later (otherwise yes, elves spend 20 years in diapers)

True. Unlike the common races, there's no official child ages for Aasimar, Tiefling, etc.

So, if their rate of growth and maturity up to adulthood is the same, I guess the rest can be chalked up to denial or assuming other causes of the slower age. With all the magic and blood floating around in the world, being an aasimar is only one possibility.

Dark Archive

What about being brought up by people that don't know much about humans. Say you were found by a group of remote dwelling elves. They've seen humans before, maybe a couple have passed through, but they didn't really want to know about them. So they assume you're a normal human. They don't know how humans age, what abilities they have or how they normally look.


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cheechako wrote:
LuxuriantOak wrote:
perfectly doable.

Care to elaborate?

A human child should be able to form simple sentences around 2 years old and simple conversations around 3 years old. As an Aasimar, this would be pushed back to age 11 or so. That is very, very slow development. I doubt there are special-education schools in Golarion, so what would happen to a child that suffers from such extremely slow growth and development?

By the time the aasimar is 40, the parents could both be dead from old-age. That happens sometimes with humans, but the aasimar is still about 12-years old in growth and development.

That 60+ years of life really messes things up.

That is contingent on a congruous spread of growth and development, both physical and mental, as compared to that of a Human. It's simple to say, "Oh, lives twice as long as a Human so all developmental stages are also twice as long." However, realistically, it may not be so cut-and-dry. Physically, Humans have notable growth spurts; the two most important are in the first couple of years from Infant to Toddler and then again at the onset of Puberty. Secondary phases include Menopause for Women and the time at which Telemeres on your DNA strands run out (meaning those cells can no longer divide). Just because you live twice as long doesn't necessarily mean all these periods match up. For example, human children are, essentially, born premature because our big heads wouldn't pass through the birth canal if we waited to what would technically be full term for other mammals. This is why most other animals can walk within hours or even minutes of birth and are typically born open-eyed while a Human is typically born with eyes closed and takes several months to learn to walk. Consider a Galapagos Tortoise which reaches sexual maturity at 20-25 years in captivity and can live 100-170 years. About twice the lifespan of a human only about 25% longer physical maturation period.

Secondly, physical maturation is separate from mental maturation. Humans become, essentially, physically mature around the age of 15. However, our brains don't fully "click" into full gear until about 25 years. Some cultures set the age of "adulthood" based completely on the age of physical maturation. This has been the case for a long time in real-world cultures; you are a man as soon as you can hold a spear and bow. Presently, in most civilized parts of the world, we sort of split the difference between physical and mental maturity and put adulthood in the range of 17-20 depending on the presiding government. Races like Goblins and such, you'll find, reach "adulthood" much later in life compared to their max lifespan. A Human is adult at 15 and max life span is 72-90 (81 average) meaning you are a minor for about 18.5% of your life whereas with a Goblin (adulthood @12, average max life 50) is a minor for a whopping 23.7% of its life. A Halfling is a minor for only 13% of its life while an Elf is a minor for 21%. What you need to take into consideration is the balance of physical maturity, mental maturity, and what the culture values more. An Elf at 110 doesn't necessarily physically nor mentally correspond to a Human at 15 because a 15 year old Human is just physically/sexually mature. If Elves value mental maturity far more, they may very well be physically/sexually mature at a much younger age but aren't considered "adult" until they mentally mature. Furthermore, "adulthood" may well be reached before physical maturity if mental maturity outpaces physical. It's even possible that mental maturity is reached before physical. So you could have "child mind in an adult body" as well as "adult mind in a child body" and everything in between.

Unfortunately, we have no solid guidelines as to the actual physical and mental "checkpoints" for races other than Humans so you you must really decide, as a play group, how the various races "age", mentally, physically, and socially.

For reference, I'll include an excerpt from another post I made on the subject with childhood as a percentage of max life for lower-bound, average, and upper-bound max life expectancy:

Human: adult @ 15
- /max life floor: 21%
- /max life mean: 18.5%
- /max life ceiling: 16%
Dwarf: adult @ 40
- /max life floor: 16%
- /max life mean: 11%
- /max life ceiling: 8.8%
Elf: adult @ 110
- /max life floor: 31%
- /max life mean: 21%
- /max life ceiling: 16%
Gnome: adult @ 40
- /max life floor: 20%
- /max life mean: 11%
- /max life ceiling: 8%
Half-Elf: adult @ 20
- /max life floor: 16%
- /max life mean: 13%
- /max life ceiling: 11%
Half-Orc: adult @ 14
- /max life floor: 23%
- /max life mean:
- /max life ceiling:
Halfling: adult @ 20
- /max life floor: 19%
- /max life mean: 13%
- /max life ceiling: 10%

Note particularly how a Half-Elf, despite living significantly longer than a Human, has the smallest ratio of childhood:max life of any of the core races. Also note that compared to the floor and average max life, an Elf is a child for a larger percentage of its life compared to a Human but they both reach 16% of their respective ceiling max life values. There is a lot of variance in age ratios so it cannot simply be boiled down to simple ratios of childhood years.


Blood of Angels seems to assume that childhood for aasimars is the same length as that of humans (or maybe just whatever race their parents are), and it says that some aasimar only develop aasimar features when they hit adolescence. And we're talking anything from looks to stats, spell-like abilities or the ability to understand Celestial.
The fact that these aasimars are just like other perfectly normal children (even if unusually pretty) until then indicates to me that childhood has the normal length, and then come adolescence things slow down.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

An aasimar completely without that trait can be just as or even more ignorant about their nature. Aasimars aren't generally direct offspring of celestials and can simply be born if their parents are exposed to the right energies.


cheechako wrote:
A human child should be able to form simple sentences around 2 years old and simple conversations around 3 years old. As an Aasimar, this would be pushed back to age 11 or so.

I don't think any of us remember anything from before we could speak, so according to your example an aasimar wouldn't remember anything from the first 11 years of their life. However, BoA tells us this:

Blood of Angels wrote:
Most aasimars recall happy childhoods until around age five or six

To remember this very early part of their lives before age five or six in their adulthood, they would have to be further developed than a one or two-year-old child, which does not at all line up with placing them as 2-3 years old at age 11.


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I seem to remember that the starting age for aasimars listed in the book was a mistake. The developers stated that they have normal human lifespan. I am not sure where this was, but I think it was by James Jacob who stated this.


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JJ has certainly said that about tieflings, so it wouldn't surprise me if he said the same about aasimars and other planetouched races. BoA also suggests this somewhat at one point where it says that it's not so much that aasimars have very long lives, but rather that they visually seem to never age as much as humans in old age.


I always assumed that unless stated otherwise that the half humans who lived longer enjoyed longer periods of able bodied years delaying old age. Also I tend to make things more mysterious in my games or my view of the world. So just because aasimars exist doesn't mean they are easily identified. If the human parent is aware they are hooking up with an angel then there is an easy explination when your little bundle of joy has marks or special powers. However if the mysterious stranger never tells or dies before he or she breaks the news then the little offspring is unique that does not mean everyone instantly knows they are an aasimar, such things are not unheard of but not so common as to jump to mind by any one.

Currently I am playing a Kitsune in one of my PBP. I was adopted by a human couple who found me as an infant. I have lived most of my life as a human only occaisionally taking my alternate form. I wrote the history of my character that no one in his family that knows his secret knows what a Kitsune is. He believes that it is some sort of blessing from Erastil.


I've actually been planning an assimar character around this concept too (have a cert, so I'm legal). I thought about doing something like amnesia or some such thing (like implanted memories), but haven't fully developed the idea.

Then again, I like the idea for an android character as well. Haven't checked to see if they are PFS-legal or if you need a cert.


Im sorry, but you have suffered a major concussion from a blow to the back of your head.

Whats your name son? Where do you live? Who are your parents?

You don't remember anything do you young man. Well I know the old lady who runs the orphanage here. And if anyone comes looking for you, well we know where to send them.

Edit:: Argh vvincent ninja'd me. Sorta.


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
I seem to remember that the starting age for aasimars listed in the book was a mistake. The developers stated that they have normal human lifespan. I am not sure where this was, but I think it was by James Jacob who stated this.

I pretty sure this is correct. When I get home I'll check the "Blood of ..." books. I think it is in there. Something about how despite their special circumstances, the universe balances this out by giving them a limited lifespan.


Regarding the OP, I think it would be hard to not know you have darkvision and a spell-like ability. I guess you could just never use the SLA. Or maybe you'd think you were feytouched or something.


Oath wrote:

Regarding the OP, I think it would be hard to not know you have darkvision and a spell-like ability. I guess you could just never use the SLA. Or maybe you'd think you were feytouched or something.

Knowing or realizing you are different is not the same thing as being able to classify yourself as an aasimar. The idea of realizing your an aasimar means that either you were able to gain the knoweldge or that aasimars are so common that it is a likely possibility.


James Jacobs has stated repeatedly that the aasimar age categories on ARG were a mistake and should not apply to Golarion, since at least one official storyline (one central NPC in Rise of the Runelords) depends on them having human lifespans. The same thing has been said about tieflings (albeit considering a different Adventure Path).

He has announced it will be corrected in the future, but Golarion DMs are encouraged to just use human age categories.


Pheoran Armiez wrote:

I was thinking about building a character (probably rogue) that was an aasimar, but I got to thinking "what if he didn't know he was an aasimar?" I am a huge fan of Scion of Humanity. I just wanted to know if anyone had ideas for how that would work?

For me, at least, the obvious issues would be the starting age (60+ years but looks like a young adult 16+) and the racial traits like darkvision and spell-like abilities. Everything else could be explained away, such as energy resistance as an attack "not being so bad" or skill bonuses as "always had a knack for..." and such.

I just wanted to get your guys' ideas and opinions on how to work this character development opportunity.

Darkvision should immediately clue in the character that there's something different about them. When you've been able to see in pitch black lighting for your entire life when all your family can't? Yeah, that's something you'll pick up on. From there anyone with even the tiniest bit of curiosity or trepidation about their true identify should be able to find some schmuck who can pass the low Knowledge(religion) check to go, "Oh hey, you got outsider blood in you" (assuming the character themselves couldn't do it).

Only one alternate racial trait replaces darkvision for an aasimar and that's the halo. I'm going to hazard a guess that this would be a significantly less subtle distinction in the majority of circumstances for a character growing up.


Just, wow... I really appreciate all of this feedback.

The two biggest things I've heard involve the aasimar age being more in line with human age (although I really like Kazaan's breakdown of aging, and personally feel the longest part of aging would be around adolescence for long-lived races) and spell-like abilities.

The group I usually play with go mostly with "If you are from a long-lived race, the majority of your childhood is spent in adolescence as opposed to an incredibly long infant, toddler, early childhood, or middle childhood stage of development." That being the case, I was going to try to find a background that would make the passage of time sort of difficult to remember, such as being raised by fey or other long-lived races in a secluded area (sort of like what Shin Biliruben suggested).

Otherwise, I could try to talk to my DM and see about using a human lifespan instead (although I sort of like having a character who is of a long-lived people :P).

With darkvision/spell-like abilities, I suppose if the character was raised by non-humans or creatures with similar abilities it wouldn't seem so strange.


JJ has indeed stated several times that Golarion aasimar are meant to mature as humans - I want to say they still keep the longer overall lifespan and the aging "slows down" once they're fully grown, but I'm not 100% sure on that.


Aasimars are like the Dunedain in Lord of the Rings. They grow up like humans, but they say "20" for MUCH longer.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Oath wrote:

Regarding the OP, I think it would be hard to not know you have darkvision and a spell-like ability. I guess you could just never use the SLA. Or maybe you'd think you were feytouched or something.

Hard as it may seem for you to believe, among the racial perks of the planetouched that are not included... the rulebook pages that explain what you are. Aasimars are typically born to mortal parents whose celestial heritage may be so far back in their ancestry that it's been forgotten. Or it may be the whim of a dieity who infused a gestating child with celestial energy. Typically these children discover aspects of themselves the hard way, by stress or accident.


If you have dark vision do you know its not how other people see? And considering the other races that do have dark vision is Aasimar really the one that is going to jump out first.


Gnomezrule wrote:
If you have dark vision do you know its not how other people see? And considering the other races that do have dark vision is Aasimar really the one that is going to jump out first.

Well, it's one of the few where your parents won't share the trait, so that helps.

Though an aasimar character who rejects his parents and uses his differences as "proof" that they aren't his real parents would be an interesting concept.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Keep in mind that most people will assume that their own capabilities are normal until it becomes very obvious that they are otherwise. How often would an aasimar kid sit in total darkness with his normal human sibling and compare what they can and cannot see?

Also, it is possible that the aasimar has the Halo alternate racial trait but has never manifested it. Such an aasimar would have no darkvision.


Gnomezrule wrote:
If you have dark vision do you know its not how other people see? And considering the other races that do have dark vision is Aasimar really the one that is going to jump out first.

they won't know until they see a reflection of themselves at night. Or until family members remark upon it.


David knott 242 wrote:

Keep in mind that most people will assume that their own capabilities are normal until it becomes very obvious that they are otherwise. How often would an aasimar kid sit in total darkness with his normal human sibling and compare what they can and cannot see?

Also, it is possible that the aasimar has the Halo alternate racial trait but has never manifested it. Such an aasimar would have no darkvision.

darkvision eyes glow.


Rogar Stonebow wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

Keep in mind that most people will assume that their own capabilities are normal until it becomes very obvious that they are otherwise. How often would an aasimar kid sit in total darkness with his normal human sibling and compare what they can and cannot see?

Also, it is possible that the aasimar has the Halo alternate racial trait but has never manifested it. Such an aasimar would have no darkvision.

darkvision eyes glow.

I was not aware of that.

Still having glowing eyes and having better night vision is a case you are different. Its the leap from I am not the same as everyone else to perfectly classifying yourself as another species. I suppose if Aasimar are common knowledge and every village as one every few years. Then sure that must be what it is. But if its one every hundred years and never before in this village. Is it more likely that the person would assume they have an affliction or were more like a half orc or half elf or some how "blessed by the gods."

Written in the rule book does not automatically mean common character knowledge. Even when featured or uncommon races are allowed they are usually at least I understood drastically less common than the core races.


Interesting part about the eyes for darkvision. I suppose the character could have the Halo alternative racial trait, but that might make things a little more obvious.

I've been flushing out the character concept and decided to go with archaeologist (bard archetype) instead of rogue. In this way, the spell-like ability tends to be subsumed into the normal spellcasting abilities. This also makes the character more versatile, less focused on sneak attack, and a more welcomed (eventually) member of the party.

That being said, I've decided to play the character as "ignorant to magic" (no ranks in Knowledge (arcana), Spellcraft, or Use Magic Device). Obviously, he understands HE is the source of the spells he casts but, much like everything else in his vagabond life, he doesn't worry about the details and just goes with the flow. Also, he has Profession (gambler) and would be working towards Deadly Dealer. This is more thematic than mechanical since his damage output will not be very high. However, by picking up Card Sharp (for Deadly Dealer) and Papercraft Tools (so as not needing to be obvious about the character's skill set) as rogue talents, I hope to make the character fun to play and useful in the party.

Since he is a charming scoundrel who, for the most part, skates through life on smiles (Bluff, Diplomacy) and guile (Profession (gambler), Sleight of Hand), he wouldn't "put down roots" in any one place for too long for fear of "rolling the die too many times" or "pushing his luck". This means those formative and lengthy adolescent years don't have to be meticulously tracked.

I see him as true Neutral (focused on himself or things he cares about) with the occasional good tenancy (random acts of kindness he plays off as "whims" or "for show").


Rogar Stonebow wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

Keep in mind that most people will assume that their own capabilities are normal until it becomes very obvious that they are otherwise. How often would an aasimar kid sit in total darkness with his normal human sibling and compare what they can and cannot see?

Also, it is possible that the aasimar has the Halo alternate racial trait but has never manifested it. Such an aasimar would have no darkvision.

darkvision eyes glow.

Any proof of that ? I havn't found it in the rules.


For traits, I want to go with three traits and a drawback. The traits I am going for are: Carefully Hidden (+1 Will saves, +2 on saves verse divination), Fate's Favored (increase luck bonuses by 1), and Two-World Magic (add a cantrip from another spell list to bard list).

I'm not married to the third trait, but the first two are right on for the character concept.

For the drawback, I have it narrowed down to four, each one providing its own hook: Hedonistic (since he is a self-serving character, it would make sense), Mark of Slavery (perhaps his lost years were spent enslaved and his self-serving nature/hedonistic tendencies are a coping mechanism), Shadow-Scarred (could use Halo instead of darkvision and turn his light/daylight abilities into coping mechanisms against his fear of darkness), and Superstitious (not only is he ignorant of magic, he downright doesn't trust it, except for his... his is cool).


Oath wrote:

Regarding the OP, I think it would be hard to not know you have darkvision and a spell-like ability. I guess you could just never use the SLA. Or maybe you'd think you were feytouched or something.

Blood of Angels page 12.

They only live slightly longer than their base race, but t seems much linger because they keep their vitality and youthful glow for decades.


Gnomezrule wrote:
Oath wrote:

Regarding the OP, I think it would be hard to not know you have darkvision and a spell-like ability. I guess you could just never use the SLA. Or maybe you'd think you were feytouched or something.

Knowing or realizing you are different is not the same thing as being able to classify yourself as an aasimar. The idea of realizing your an aasimar means that either you were able to gain the knoweldge or that aasimars are so common that it is a likely possibility.

Agreed. They'd know they are different, but knowing why they are different would depend on a lot of factors.

Sovereign Court

If you use the "non-human aasimar", it gets interesting as well. For instance, my first PFS character was born a dwarf (Adopted trait to represent this), grew up in a dwarven town, and wasn't THAT different from dwarves (I dropped Cha to 7) except for being a good bowman...and hair that looks feathery. When the wings sprout, it'll be a bit more obvious...


Thanael wrote:
Rogar Stonebow wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

Keep in mind that most people will assume that their own capabilities are normal until it becomes very obvious that they are otherwise. How often would an aasimar kid sit in total darkness with his normal human sibling and compare what they can and cannot see?

Also, it is possible that the aasimar has the Halo alternate racial trait but has never manifested it. Such an aasimar would have no darkvision.

darkvision eyes glow.
Any proof of that ? I havn't found it in the rules.

Absolutely none!! However in all of the forgotten realms books of old, those with darkvision had glowing eyes when they were "activated" when their regular vision failed.

Silver Crusade

It would be very odd if "darkvision" eyes glow... y'see, that would mean that everyone without darkvision would still be able to notice and target all those critters with darkvision, in complete darkness, by the gleam of their eyes...


Rogar Stonebow wrote:
Thanael wrote:
Rogar Stonebow wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

Keep in mind that most people will assume that their own capabilities are normal until it becomes very obvious that they are otherwise. How often would an aasimar kid sit in total darkness with his normal human sibling and compare what they can and cannot see?

Also, it is possible that the aasimar has the Halo alternate racial trait but has never manifested it. Such an aasimar would have no darkvision.

darkvision eyes glow.
Any proof of that ? I havn't found it in the rules.
Absolutely none!! However in all of the forgotten realms books of old, those with darkvision had glowing eyes when they were "activated" when their regular vision failed.

Might that be a carry-over from 2E and earlier when the actual name of the term was 'infravision'? I don't remember how infravision worked either, just thought I'd toss that out there anyways.


Finn Kveldulfr wrote:
It would be very odd if "darkvision" eyes glow... y'see, that would mean that everyone without darkvision would still be able to notice and target all those critters with darkvision, in complete darkness, by the gleam of their eyes...

Target... but still take 50% miss chance from concealment.


Honestly don't know.

It's a faint glow than can only be seen when within 4 feet. So no Combat disadvantages.


PFSRD wrote:

Darkvision

Darkvision is the extraordinary ability to see with no light source at all, out to a range specified for the creature. Darkvision is black-and-white only (colors cannot be discerned). It does not allow characters to see anything that they could not see otherwise—invisible objects are still invisible, and illusions are still visible as what they seem to be. Likewise, darkvision subjects a creature to gaze attacks normally. The presence of light does not spoil darkvision.

Not seeing anything there that indicates the eyes glow a little.

I think, like others have mentioned, you've got a holdover from 2nd edition infravision there... but that's not necessarily a bad thing. :)


Rogar Stonebow wrote:

Honestly don't know.

It's a faint glow than can only be seen when within 4 feet. So no Combat disadvantages.

Im being fluffy


Guys. This game is yours. It belongs to you, not them. It doesn't belong to James Jacobs or anyone else except the GM and the players at a particular table. That's the point of pen and paper RPGs. Aasimars are whatever the hell you say they are in your game.

At one table they can live normal human life spans and at another they can live for 5,000 years. At the same table, one aasimar can age hyper rapidly as some kind of side effect of their celestial blood, while another ages super slowly. With regards to this kind of stuff, in every case you should do whatever best serves the aesthetic, thematic and plot demands of the story you are telling. You should do whatever is most interesting to the people in the campaign.

The debate might be thornier when it comes to crunchy mechanical rules, but for stuff like this it's clear: all the charts and "rules" about age ranges and the like should be treated as guidelines at best. It's frankly absurd to get dogmatic about things like this.

Obviously, this issue changes when it comes to organized play, but this thread is under general discussion so I approached the answer from a higher altitude.

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