Question about Hold Person spell


Rules Questions


I was building myself an oracle and noticed that Hold Person has been seriously nerfed (target may attempt will save on every turn). When did they do this?

Also, I noticed that Magic Missile damage die got nerfed from d6 to d4! Why? How? When? And why's the game called Pathfinder anyways? Can I timetravel back now please?


3.5 i think added the save every round. and magic missile has been d4+1 since I started playing many many moons ago...

(original AD&D - red robed wizard/blue background on the PHB if you're interested)


Is this a serious post? Damn... I think I just got trolled.


hargoyle wrote:

I was building myself an oracle and noticed that Hold Person has been seriously nerfed (target may attempt will save on every turn). When did they do this?

Also, I noticed that Magic Missile damage die got nerfed from d6 to d4! Why? How? When? And why's the game called Pathfinder anyways? Can I timetravel back now please?

These two spells have always been like this, but they did nerf some of the other spells, mainly the SoD spells. Instead of insta-death they do hit point damage.


@BigDTBone

The first question is a serious one. Don't how I've missed the text change. Maybe because I've never used it since 3.0.


hargoyle wrote:

@BigDTBone

The first question is a serious one. Don't how I've missed the text change. Maybe because I've never used it since 3.0.

Well then, to answer the serious question. It isn't a pathfinder specific change and is completely reasonable nerf for an "I win" mechanic available to Devine casters as a 2nd level spell.


I'm not sure they nerfed it enough, personally.


Zhayne wrote:
I'm not sure they nerfed it enough, personally.

I agree with that, it should be language-dependent and 3rd level.


I was thinking more like 3rd level and requires concentration, or some condition that doesn't enable CdGs.

Sovereign Court

I literally ended a boss encounter with that spell. The king of arena challenged us...I cast hold person. He failed his save...me and my party literally full attacked him, coup de grace for 2 rounds,he couldn't pass the save.

A save every round doesn't matter if you put your dc high enough to be a problem with creatures with low will save.


Yeah, save or die/save or lose spells/effects outright suck giant turkey ass.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Zhayne wrote:
Yeah, save or die/save or lose spells/effects outright suck giant turkey ass.

Honestly, if the DM is prepared for them they aren't that bad. You just don't give crappy saves to boss monsters. Hold Person has been pretty clutch for me at stopping escaping soldiers or ending combat without bloodshed, but I don't even bother with it when I'm fighting someone that seems like they have a good will save. Save or Dies that remove a single enemy out of a group of four are more can be a little obnoxious, but they aren't always better than every option in the caster toolbox. A haste or a black tentacles that hits an entire crowd and doesn't bother with saves can be more unbalancing. They are a little less binary though, which can be nice.

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