Yeah, I think Mr. Sutter's completely off-base. Authors don't owe their fans anything. Authors don't even owe their publishers anything except what is in the signed contract. Publishers know this and take advantage of this all the time.
I consider Barry Hughart's The Chronicles of Master Li and Number Ten Ox series to be one of the best fantasy collections ever published. We're never going to see volumes 4-7. In his words,
The Master Li books were a tightrope act and hard to write, but not, alas, very remunerative. Still, I would have continued as originally planned if I'd had a supportive publisher: seven novels ending with my heroes' deaths in the battle with the Great White Serpent, and their elevation to the Great River of Stars as minor deities guaranteed to cause the August Personage of Jade almost as much trouble as the Stone Monkey. Unfortunately I had St. Martins, which didn't even bother to send a postcard when I won the World Fantasy Award; Ballantine, which was dandy until my powerhouse editor dropped dead and her successors forgot my existence; and Doubleday, which released The Story of the Stone three months before the pub date, guaranteeing that not one copy would still be on the shelves when reviews came out, published the hardcover and the paperback of Eight Skilled Gentlemen simultaneously, and then informed me they would bring out further volumes in paperback only, meriting, of course, a considerably reduced advance.
Hughart, alas, owes me nothing. He's not dealing with me, he's dealing with publishers, and unless the publisher allows him -- encourages him -- makes it worth it -- to continue writing, it doesn't matter that "first volume of a twelve-volume series" was printed on the cover.
Well, do the fans owe it to the authors not to make parody videos of them losing races against snails turtles and glaciers?
Although I am watching and very much enjoying Games of Thrones on HBO, I haven't read any of Martin's books and don't know that I will. I'll have to consider other authors and what, if anything, they "owe" me.
I feel that if an author begins a multi-book story, he does owe his readers a conclusion. Based on the TV show and what Martin has apparently told its producers about future plot development, it sounds like it is meant to be one epic story rather than just a series novels that share a universe and some characters. I'd say Martin absolutely owes his readers a conclusion to that story, given the millions of dollars generated off their investment in it. [Sadly for fans] he isn't obliged to complete it by any particular date, but he needn't be an ass about it.
Jim Butcher may have a grand metaplot in mind for his Harry Dresden books, but that series doesn't depend on one. Despite excellent character development, it's largely episodic. He could stop at any time and not be in violation of any perceived contract with the reader.
I consider Laurell K. Hamilton to have been in contract violation with me for a number of years now, because of a major change in the focus of the Anita Blake series of books. The first several involved Blake as a supernatural investigator. She raised zombies for a living, killed vampires when necessary, and consulted with local cops on the supernatural. As the series "progressed" (if you can call this progress) it became less and less about Blake's zombie/vampire/consulting work, more and more about how many different sexual partners she could juggle per day. That's not the character I signed up for, nor the character originally presented. Hamilton turned "my" urban supernatural series into silly kink-porn. I don't appreciate the drawn out bait-and-switch.
Regarding Jim Butcher - I would have agreed with you up until a certain point. Now though, he has introduced too many continuous plots over time where the informal contract grew. If he stopped after a few books, I would have been fine. The threads hadn't been woven together yet. So for me, I guess it has a lot to do with how many and what type of unresolved things there are left in the story.
Or, only slightly more seriously, if GRRM produced 100 page books ten times as quickly as as he does 1,00 page books, would his readers owe it to him to buy the next book in the series, even if they didn't enjoy his work?
Edit: Oops that was supposed to follow BNW.
As to whether or not this is good for the industry - I would argue that it isn't good for either books or television.
Between GRRM and Firefly, I have mostly given up on consuming media unless it is finished. In fact, a growing group of people now binge watch tv, which is why Netflix stopped trying to slowly release its series in favor of releasing them all at once after examining user data. I bet you can look at finished series and see significant upticks in sales when they are done. There is a reason they package completed series together to buy all at once.
This to me says that people are less likely to consume small doses, like the first book in a series. That will mean poor sales/ratings, and a feedback loop of people not willing to trust a project will be completed.
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As to whether or not this is good for the industry - I would argue that it isn't good for either books or television.
Between GRRM and Firefly, I have mostly given up on consuming media unless it is finished. In fact, a growing group of people now binge watch tv, which is why Netflix stopped trying to slowly release its series in favor of releasing them all at once after examining user data. I bet you can look at finished series and see significant upticks in sales when they are done. There is a reason they package completed series together to buy all at once.
This to me says that people are less likely to consume small doses, like the first book in a series. That will mean poor sales/ratings, and a feedback loop of people not willing to trust a project will be completed.
I thought they did that because if you actually take five seconds and think about it, Orange is the New Black sucks, but people binge watch and miss that. ;-)
As to whether or not this is good for the industry - I would argue that it isn't good for either books or television.
Between GRRM and Firefly, I have mostly given up on consuming media unless it is finished. In fact, a growing group of people now binge watch tv, which ish why Netflix stopped trying to slowly release its series in favor of releasing them all at once after examining user data. I bet you can look at finished series and see significant upticks in sales when they are done. There is a reason they package completed series together to buy all at once.
This to me says that people are less likely to consume small doses, like the first book in a series. That will mean poor sales/ratings, and a feedback loop of people not willing to trust a project will be completed.
The only problem is, there still has to be a one or two book/show introduction to get people interested. It costs a lot more money to put out an entire series that nobody reads/watches than it does to start with an introduction.
In general, I agree with your point though.
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Or, only slightly more seriously, if GRRM produced 100 page books ten times as quickly as as he does 1,00 page books, would his readers owe it to him to buy the next book in the series, even if they didn't enjoy his work?At least then they'd know he was making progress and hadn't abandoned it.
Or, taking an even sillier tack, what if the next book revealed in 100 pages that all the horrible nasty stuff that's happened so far was just a dream and the Riverlands really are a happy peaceful land that's going to work together smoothly against the coming Winter?
Do readers have any right to be upset about that?
Worked for Dallas, right? ;P
These conversations always seem to use, I don't know what, legal terms like owe and right, when that's just not the sort of relationship authors and readers have. I enjoyed the hell out of Vurt by Jeff Noon, but thought Pollen sucked like a vacuum cleaner, so I didn't read the rest of the series, and I felt that was the appropriate response to my disappointment. I think Matt Ruff is an entertaining writer, and I wish he'd publish more often than once a decade (fine, he'd did better than than in the 2000s, but time will tell on the 2010s) but that enjoyment of his work doesn't contain any obligation aside from the one that I have to myself to read books that I enjoy. That is, readers are going to be upset by whatever upsets them, but I don't know how relevant that is to what the author writes.
We also forget one of the worst things about "too-long stretched out series" and thats the "stretched out" part. Wheel of Time started adding massive padding around Book7, Emberverse about the same, and GRRM is showing signs of the same issue.
As to whether or not this is good for the industry - I would argue that it isn't good for either books or television.
Between GRRM and Firefly, I have mostly given up on consuming media unless it is finished. In fact, a growing group of people now binge watch tv, which ish why Netflix stopped trying to slowly release its series in favor of releasing them all at once after examining user data. I bet you can look at finished series and see significant upticks in sales when they are done. There is a reason they package completed series together to buy all at once.
This to me says that people are less likely to consume small doses, like the first book in a series. That will mean poor sales/ratings, and a feedback loop of people not willing to trust a project will be completed.
The only problem is, there still has to be a one or two book/show introduction to get people interested. It costs a lot more money to put out an entire series that nobody reads/watches than it does to start with an introduction.
In general, I agree with your point though.
Yeah. And since enough things have started violating the social contract to finish what they start, people are getting fed up. People don't like becoming emotionally invested in things that end up being disappointments. Which is one reason why violating the social contract is a bad thing in this regard. When energetic fans are defeatist about the long term prospects of your project before it even begins, you have a problem.
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Is there an expectation on the part of the consumer that when they buy part one of a series they will have the opportunity to purchase the rest of the parts within a reasonable amount of time? Yes. Whether you personally think it unfair or not when you create a part one then people will want part two and so on. They WILL feel cheated if you decide to walk away from what you started.
Do you OWE the readers a new installment? Nope. But if you want to keep them as fans of your work it would be very wise to keep them supplied with your efforts. There IS a point where a fan will give up and walk away from a creator and since the consumers literally pay the creator then the smart creator will keep a clear line of some sort of content to keep his fan base growing and eager for more. Am I right?
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I'm emotionally invested in my wife, my children, and my friends. My entertainment? Not so much. If something starts to suck, I say "ok, this sucks now" and find something else to occupy my time.
Let me use this as an example. I like Paizo as a company, but I don't really care for the direction they're taking their game, so I went back to 1e. I'm not MAD at Paizo, they're just going in creative directions that I don't care to follow. They didn't "break a contract" with me.
I think the 4e Realms stuff put that in perspective for me. I realized "wait, I don't even PLAY 4e, why should I care?" and dropped it. Then I realized that caring that much about some truly insignificant stuff really wastes a lot of energy best used elsewhere.
So, basically, this "social construct" y'all are discussing sounds a whole lot like misplaced entitlement to me. This isn't clean water and air, this isn't whether or not you can feed your family tomorrow, it's how you spend some discretionary income.
And, really, if some writer or director or whatever doesn't want to do something any more, or doesn't do it in the way you "approve" of, who is anyone to say that person did anything wrong?
Get over it, you'll feel better about a whole lot of stuff. Trust me.
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The whole concept of anyone "owing" anyone anything outside of basic courtesy (or an actual debt) is foreign to me. An author owes us NOTHING. Nor do we owe then anything.
Just the thought of the idea that someone "owes" someone something just because they were lucky enough to create something people like reveals to me the level of entitlement in our society has reached idiotic levels.
Here's the thing, they wouldn't have been "lucky" enough to make something popular if people hadn't bought it. And people bought it with the understanding that there would be more, in the case of a series that was set to be a series from the start.
You could just as easily say it's "entitled" of the author to expect the audience to still be around when he takes 5 years to write the next book in the series.
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The whole concept of anyone "owing" anyone anything outside of basic courtesy (or an actual debt) is foreign to me. An author owes us NOTHING. Nor do we owe then anything.
Just the thought of the idea that someone "owes" someone something just because they were lucky enough to create something people like reveals to me the level of entitlement in our society has reached idiotic levels.
Here's the thing, they wouldn't have been "lucky" enough to make something popular if people hadn't bought it. And people bought it with the understanding that there would be more, in the case of a series that was set to be a series from the start.
You could just as easily say it's "entitled" of the author to expect the audience to still be around when he takes 5 years to write the next book in the series.
Which is why some of us keep saying that the author doesn't owe his audience a story and his audience doesn't owe him their patronage.
A social contract is not a real thing so no parties are on the hook to provide anything for anyone. Sure it's smart for the author to keep working if he wants money and fans, but it isn’t required for him to do so.
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The whole concept of anyone "owing" anyone anything outside of basic courtesy (or an actual debt) is foreign to me. An author owes us NOTHING. Nor do we owe then anything.
Just the thought of the idea that someone "owes" someone something just because they were lucky enough to create something people like reveals to me the level of entitlement in our society has reached idiotic levels.
Here's the thing, they wouldn't have been "lucky" enough to make something popular if people hadn't bought it. And people bought it with the understanding that there would be more, in the case of a series that was set to be a series from the start.
You could just as easily say it's "entitled" of the author to expect the audience to still be around when he takes 5 years to write the next book in the series.
I don't see a bunch of AUTHORS on here whining. ;-)
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I would say Elaine Cunningham's Forgotten Realms books are a decent example. Sort of. She wrote Elfshadow, Elfsong and Silver Shadows, three books that did tie together in various ways, and were among the better offerings of FR novels. After this, she added Dream Spheres, Thornhold and Evermeet: Island of the Elves, all worthy books. After that, she had planned to write a seventh book, tentatively called, I think, Redemption, which was to follow up a few things in Evermeet. However, she was pretty hard hit by depression, and when she would eventually get back to it, it was nine years later and she felt that was too long. Now, if she had written that novel, I would have bought it without hesitation, and many others would as well. It would likely have sold well, even after that time. However, she chose not to, instead explaining her reasons in a discussion about it. That is a respectable thing to do if you can't finish something. Heck, you are likely going to be quite a different person after nine years. Perhaps your fans would be better served by something the new person you are would write, rather than a continuation of stuff thought up by a much younger and less experienced person?
Now, just to clarify, my point is that Elaine explained the situation to her fans, thereby fulfilling much of what she "owed" them. I never heard a bad word about the situation, either. I doubt anyone thinks she's a bad writer for it. So, yes, a writer DOES owe something to his/her fans, but it doesn't take all that much to opt out in a decent fashion.
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As far as I'm concerned, the "social contract" thing resulted in the last two books of the Gunslinger series being total crap. I'm sure King just mailed the last two in, seeing as his "fans" couldn't stop annoying the living hell out if him while he was recovering from being hit by a van, since they apparently felt "entitled" to the end of the series.
Seriously, I will never understand why anyone would actually want fans, seeing as this thread highlights how impossible to please many can be.
I don't see a bunch of AUTHORS on here whining. ;-)The whole concept of anyone "owing" anyone anything outside of basic courtesy (or an actual debt) is foreign to me. An author owes us NOTHING. Nor do we owe then anything.
Just the thought of the idea that someone "owes" someone something just because they were lucky enough to create something people like reveals to me the level of entitlement in our society has reached idiotic levels.
Here's the thing, they wouldn't have been "lucky" enough to make something popular if people hadn't bought it. And people bought it with the understanding that there would be more, in the case of a series that was set to be a series from the start.
You could just as easily say it's "entitled" of the author to expect the audience to still be around when he takes 5 years to write the next book in the series.
You do know our very own James Sutter is a darn good fantasy author, right? True, he's not "whining".
(I am also a little known author).
Do the fans owe the author? If the author is obligated to keep writing then is the fan obligated to keep buying?
A fan WILL buy. Obligation or no.
A fan WILL buy. Obligation or no.
Even if they DON'T have the money?
ESPECIALLY if they don't have the money.
*Looks sadly at flat wallet*
A fan WILL buy. Obligation or no.
That's an interesting conjecture, but not necessarily true.
Hee. I am with Rynjin here. Especially if they don't have the money.
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[Fingers his library card]
[Edited for Rynjin]
[Fingers his library card]
I love it when you talk dirty.
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Yeah. And since enough things have started violating the social contract to finish what they start, people are getting fed up. People don't like becoming emotionally invested in things that end up being disappointments.
"Started"?
Am I the only one here who remembers Star Trek's "five year mission"? Or Ralph Bakshi's Lord of the Rings?
The publisher won't put out one more volume than he thinks will deliver a sufficient ROI, and has no qualms about screwing over the author/director/writer/cast in doing so. The author should equally have no qualms about not putting up with whiny editors/publishers/fans making unreasonable demands.
The author should equally have no qualms about not putting up with whiny editors/publishers/fans making unreasonable demands.Fans making unreasonable demands like "Finish the series you started and we'll throw money at you!!"
That's certainly one of them, yes.
The tradition of fans hassling authors for more material goes way back. Look at Conan Doyle and Reichenbach Falls. But for a particularly poignant example, look at Stephen King's Misery, and ask yourself why you want to be Annie Wilkes.
Good luck finding a process server. :)I suppose not dying halfway through a series is a bit too much to ask.
Douglas Adams, and Frank Herbert I am looking at both of you.
Hey don't discourage him. If he can find a way to speak with the dead the world will get a LOT wiser.
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[Library use.][library card]
As a side note, in several countries, authors get royalties whenever their books are checked out of libraries (not sure how this plays out with e-book lending; everything I read suggests it's complicated and something authors need to look for in their contracts). Sadly, this isn't the case in the US—there's just a one-shot royalty payment when the book is acquired.
Unreasonable demands like "how dare you have a life!!! Get back to writing my book b&*$@!"
And unfortunately you do see things along those lines pop up from a rabid fan base.
Its hard to imagine a life that conflicts with half a page a day worth of writing.
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Its hard to imagine a life that conflicts with half a page a day worth of writing.Unreasonable demands like "how dare you have a life!!! Get back to writing my book b&*$@!"
And unfortunately you do see things along those lines pop up from a rabid fan base.
You do this successfully enough frequently enough to craft something lots of people love? That's kind of amazing!
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You do this successfully enough frequently enough to craft something lots of people love? That's kind of amazing!
Thwap.
I don't think that the page would sell no matter how long I spent on it, conversely I don't think martins talent would be diminished if he upped it to two pages a day.
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Talent? No, certainly not.
Drive, focus, ability, thought-process, and over-all good product? Most certainly.
I am a writer. Not an author - certainly not published and, due to my own inherent instabilities and weaknesses (part of which is self-doubt, part of which is laziness, part of which is attention deficit, and part of which is perfectionism, probably among others) I likely never will be.
However, here is what I know about writing: it is very easy, and very hard.
For example, let's look at my posting history.
I have (as of writing this) "6,490 posts (7,878 including aliases)."
That, sir, is a lot of writing.
I mean, even presuming five words a post , that's 32,450 words: about two children's books, or half the median length of all books (according to Google).
But... how are my posts received?
Of my 7,878 posts, I have "865" that have received favorites. Huh. Slightly more than 1%.
But, of those that are favorited, you've got to take in other considerations. Some people favorite posts as a form of "Hey, you, I like this." or "I find this funny." or "I disagree, but this is well-spoken." I use all of these things. Hence, I have favorited "27,732" posts.
Others find that I favorite posts, and this generates positive feelings, and "return the favor" to various things that I post as well. This, unfortunately, tends to distort the perspective of "how much is my writing really liked and generally accepted" by way of favorites. (Oh, and also, I've favorited a few of my posts, way back when I was actually trying to use that to, you know, keep track of things I'd written that I like. Man, I wish that favorites had a unique search function. Alas.)
While it's true that there are some posts that are favorited by many, there are many more that are favorited by few - and a few that are favorited only by me!
Hence, I'd posit that, of the people that read what I put out there:
- it's appeal is present
- but it's appeal is limited
- it's apparent appeal is artificially inflated by active individuals
- hence, it's probably over-rated
Now, granted, this is all based entirely off a forum and communication and post-favoriting and stuff. All very informal.
But the fact is that, for as much as I write - and it's a lot - I'm not tremendously well-received. There are posts that I've created that I was certain were game-winners that were completely ignored by everyone. There are other posts that I've been certain were terrible, that received, like, half-a-dozen favorites.
Clearly, despite my effort to put a lot of thought into what I'm writing, I fail to understand the people that I'm writing to... because I don't take enough time (or, conversely, because I'm in an argument and disagree with them, but, as I said, Forum).
Obviously, my talent is up there with the greats. I don't expect it to be, and don't mind that.
But I always feel like if I had more time (which I always seem to be lacking), I could make a post better, or revisit it, or alter it, or make it cleaner or clearer, or do something.
As it is, I'm always - always* - ninja'd. That's because I usually take my time and try to build complete thoughts**.
In this way, posting is similar to writing: you need to be meticulous, cautious, and conscientious of what you're doing.
This is far, far easier said than done.
What's even more difficult is the mounting pressure when something is popular. If you create something that someone enjoys, you (well, I) want to do that again. I like it when I make people happy, or feel good, or enjoy something. I like making them smile.
... but it can be stressful and can generate pressure.
This is true, whether you're designing a game, writing a book, or playing a musical piece. You have a ton of fans who are - right or wrong - expecting something from you, and, in general, you want to give it to them. You have a story, a game, and idea that you want to share and, because others were liked, you really hope this one is... but that means you have to make it good, or, in many cases, better just equal the acceptance of the first.
Consciously or not, this can create tremendous pressure... which can greatly slow down the response. Mental pressure is a real thing, and people can have great difficulty dealing with it. The brain tends to seek easy-outs, and shortcuts... something that doesn't usually exist when making solid well-crafted products... which causes the brain to go, "Nope, I ain't doin' it" and switch to another idea. You can force yourself, of course - as every schoolchild knows - but (also as every school child knows) it's a choresome, frustrating, painful experience that sours you on what you're doing and is never your best presentation. Even if you still like the subject or general idea, the actual experience of writing something coherent through the pressure-induced block is very difficult.
And the other negative side of that: the problem with head-canon.
See, when you write something, even if you don't plan on using it, it can get... stuck in your head. It's like a bad repetitive song: it plays over and over and no matter how many times you try to think about another song, the blasted lousy music creeps in and suddenly you're thinking of that song again, and you hateitwhywon'titdieargblarglakjglakjdflajkfd!
... uh, sorry. >.> *ahem*
But the fact is, the idea was not just thought of (which can be hard enough to shed, all inception-style), but that it was written down. And it can be incredibly difficult to remove something from your brain once you've put it to paper (or digital storage, as the case may be).
When you try to create a story, and have it play out one way, but then later are forced to retcon that, it can play havoc with your thought process. And that can wreck huge swaths of the rest of your plot.
"Wait, did she take the red pill? No, no, I erased that, instead he decided to explore the forests alone. Arg, no, wait, I forgot: the other guy was in those same forests in the same place... dang it, I have to add him in... unless I cut his arc... but then what do I do with the Queen? That relied on him to..."
... and so on.
And then, of course, is the way I think. I can't speak for Martin, but I can speak for myself.
The other day - maybe Monday? - I finished an older conversation I'd had with my wife that we'd simply drifted away from to a new topic. Seven years ago.
No, I'm not joking. Seven years later, and I finally came up with a snappy rejoinder.
I'M INELLIGENT, EVERYBODY! :d
... wait...
And this is neither unique nor rare.
The fact is, I just think... weirdly. My mind goes from rail to rail, wrecking car after car, until I have a train by default, because too many cars are randomly stuck together, and they're more-or-less all going in the same direction... down hill.
My wife and I refer to it as "cows in tornadoes". The idea is that there's a cliff ledge that I stand on, and a swirling batch of Tornadoes, each of which has a bunch of cows. A given cow will be chewing cud (ideas that I've previously had that they've swallowed), spit it into my hands in-passing, and the next cow will eat the stuff, as it's sucked on by - at least parts of it, leaving some for the next cow and so on. And, of course, a given tornado (and hence, any cows it may have within it) may or may not be present anywhere near the cliff that I'm standing on - there's a lot of room in the eternal plane of my mind***.
Okay, so, you know, that's gross and weird, but it works fairly well for how I think and what comes to mind. It makes sense! Sh-shut up! You don't know!
The fact is, I'm... slow. In the literal sense. My mind moves slowly, ponderously, and methodically... partially because of all the anarchy that constantly pervades it.
Point is: there are a lot of reasons why it might go slowly.
Incidentally, the first post I have on my record is Jun 31, 2011. It's funny, as I thought I'd posted before that post, but apparently not.
Anyway, the point of bringing that up is, in the last three years, I've posted a tremendous amount of stuff.
Most of it's crap.
Some of it's decent.
It's probably enough to build a book or two.
It's not enough to build anything resembling a good read.
And, frankly, I couldn't imagine trying to post more than I do or spending more time on my posts than I do. It's weird.
But if I really wanted to, I could... but the post value would go downhill. Fast. Because I'd be rushing beyond my own mental capabilities.
I might be annoyed or frustrated - I like my instant gratification, dang-it! - but if a man can't produce faster, he can't produce faster. Or at least nothing resembling good work.
* It is a stupendously rare and glorious day when I ninja someone else. I feel like a super-star. Seriously. It's so silly and weird. I get kind of giddy.
** My success varies, widely.
*** Yes, I'm aware of the jokes that can come with this. In fact, I'm opening this up! Feel free to put your best zingers out there! (Preferably behind spoilers, 'cause otherwise this whole thread can get derailed... like my mind... a lot.)
I think it depends on the author.
Mentioned Frank Herbert. I think his series had a good ending, it's just if you wanted more.
If you did, well, his son added onto that and gave a fuller ending (with what I think were some of his own additions).
Robert Jordan also felt his fans deserved the final portions of his series.
Some authors will have a way for their series to continue, even beyond reasonable regard (death), while others have other ideas of how deeply devoted they are to their fans.
I think part of it is how devoted they are to the series to begin with, and that is directly reflected on how devoted they are to the fans that want them to finish it.
As a side note, in several countries, authors get royalties whenever their books are checked out of libraries (not sure how this plays out with e-book lending; everything I read suggests it's complicated and something authors need to look for in their contracts). Sadly, this isn't the case in the US—there's just a one-shot royalty payment when the book is acquired.[Library use.][library card]
If they don't have it at the library, I look at Goodwill.
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Two things that I don't know are clear in my previous post. (EDIT: and to comment on one thing that GreyWolfLord said.)
One:
I think it depends on the author.
... is entirely correct. EDIT: and a large part of what I was trying to get at.
In the end, it very heavily depends on a given author and their personal style of thinking, production, and in general their ability to focus, concentrate, and create now. Some people have a much better talent for that than others.
As I said: I get ninja'd all the time. Often because someone writes a shorter post than I do. Just as often, it's because I'll open a post in a new tab, click the reply button, and then take care of about a dozen other things - fixing lunch, vacuuming, push-ups, suddenly get up from the computer and walk away in a daze*...
The point is that I often do a lot of writing, whether for stories that I create, or for posts on the forums, in my head, in advance, and subtly, usually while doing anything other than writing. This ties back to what I was saying about picking up a conversation seven years** after we were finished with it (with the words, "So, anyway, like we were saying before..." - which really confused her for a few minutes, considering we hadn't been saying anything like that 'before'***).
But I'm not every poster. Many posters can create, do so quickly and concisely, and do so fast. There are some that can craft rather *ahem* "epic" works, but can do so far more rapidly than I. (There are some that are slower and less coherent, too, but I'd peg those as fewer and much farther between.)
Two:
While I don't think it's obvious, I was not trying to make myself sound popular or important on these forums. My point with citing myself is that there are several numbers we can just go: "Okay, cool." and roll with it, and neither hurt anyone's feelings, or call them out on anything in particular.
I mean, I'm arrogant, sure, but not that arrogant.
Speaking of:
Obviously, my talent is up there with the greats. I don't expect it to be, and don't mind that.
Okay, self-important windbag that I am, this... this is not what I'd intended to write.
Obviously, my talent is not up there with the greats. I don't expect it to be, and don't mind that.
Sigh. Fixed that for me.
** I wish to clarify: I keep returning to this example because this is the one that I can think of right now. It's common enough that most of the time we don't bother to remember when we were last having this conversation thread. As another example? It's really hard for me not to necro a thread from a year ago - a very contentious thread full of harsh feelings and strong words - because I finally, about six months back, finally parsed everything one poster was attempting to say to me. And, the guy was so incredibly incorrect, it's kind of amazing. And, I mean, really, who can leave things hanging like that?^
*** I think she was expecting some sort of joke to come up. Like saying, "So, casual change of topic" in conversation, it's clearly a set-up for a punchline. The punchline? Her husband's slow! :D
^ It's probably at least in part due to the fact that I constantly obsess over ever conversation I've ever had. I always go, "What if I said things this way: would it have been more persuasive? Or at least clear? If I'd said them that way, could I have made my point but left everyone happy? What about this other wording?" and things like that. I mean, removing the swear words, I live this sometimes (like how I said "You too" in response to the guy in the window of Chick-fil-A two days ago... who'd said "You too" to me, after I'd wished him a good day - man that was a bone-headed call, amirite?! :D
I think part of it is how devoted they are to the series to begin with, and that is directly reflected on how devoted they are to the fans that want them to finish it.
I think this is partially correct, at least for some. For others, I would suggest that the potential reasons and motivations go substantially beyond anything worth guessing at. And for some, they simply go to far, or become too devoted.
It's kind of cool as a fan, but it's also not the healthiest.