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Some assorted thoughts:

For the Harbinger, I'd lean in favor of Riven Hourglass. It completes the set of all supernatural disciplines.

On the subject of 6th level caster archtypes, some (expanded) stuff from the other forum:

Alchemist. Keep the casting. Trade out bombs and poison use/resistance. Possibly tie it into the mutagen. Broken Blade (they have lots of ways to get natural attacks), Steel Serpent, and a supernatural discipline (maybe Veiled Moon).
Bard. Lose the casting. It's secondary enough to the theme that it can be dropped, and Bard still has a very solid chassis without it. Give it Scarlet Throne, Eternal Guardian, and Golden Lion. Not a lot of offense, but support coming out it's ears
Inquisitor. Keep the casting. It needs it to be distinct from the Stalker, if nothing else. I'd say drop Solo Tactics and the Domain/Inquisition.
Magus. Keep it. Drop Spel Recall, Knowledge Pool, medium + heavy armor proficiency, and maybe Spellstrike. Rewrite Spell Combat to work alongside strikes not full attacks. Scarlet Throne, Primal Fury and Cursed Razor.
Warpriest. Very much keep it. Lose Blessings and Sacred Weapon, maybe Sacred Armor.


I was going to take a tradition or trait to swap out and get Riven Hourglass anyway on my Harbinger, so I'll say Riven Hourglass as well.


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Okay, so, here it is. Please be gentle.

The Mystic. Provide feedback here or on the DSP forum! Thanks!

-X


Also have one archetype finished for it, the Anima Mystic. I split the anima mechanic off of the main class because I felt it was a really busy, potentially restrictive piece that would cause complaint, but I'm not against mashing it back into the class again as part of the base class.

-X


Only got a chance to read up to Spell Dodge before heading to class, but I'm liking how the mechanics tie to the theme so far.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

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ErrantX wrote:

Okay, so, here it is. Please be gentle.

The Mystic. Provide feedback here or on the DSP forum! Thanks!

-X

I like the revamp of the Crusader recovery mechanic! It's nice to see it dovetail so neatly with the thematic flow of the class as well :)


I always liked the crusader, but that being said, random maneuvers did sometimes bite you in the rear. Which was their major complaint IIRC.

Even with the "reshuffle" sometimes you just have bad luck and don't have what you want/need for a situation. Maybe you should implement a theme or "signature moves" that you can choose every few levels (one each of strike, boost, counter) that you always have initially and then randomly get more. That way you can always expect to have that one move you know you'll want and fate can't deal you a completely crappy hand 3 times in a row and make you spend 3 rounds resetting to get something useful.

Some "randomness" is fun and makes it feel more dynamic. Completely random class abilities are generally a very bad idea. If something bad can happen, it will at some point and probably when it will most negatively impact the player. If you can take the possibility of the player being completely screwed over out of the equation, it will only make the class more enjoyable and less obnoxious.


Know that I really like the Mystic and reading it makes me excited to play one at some point. But I'm still going to make a big list of things and gripe and nitpick about them because I want it to be even more awesome. :p

  • Under Maneuvers Readied, it says
    Maneuvers Readied wrote:
    If, at the end of your turn, you cannot be granted a maneuver because you have no withheld maneuvers remaining, you recover all expended maneuvers, and a new pair of readied maneuvers is granted to you.

    Which says that in this situation you always just get 2 maneuvers, since the clause for starting encounters with more maneuvers at higher levels says just that; it's only extra maneuvers that you start encounters with. Is this intentional? Because it seems like hitting your maneuver cap is pretty crippling for a mystic's options at higher levels.

  • Why can't you use animus outside of combat? It seems very, very strange, and I can't figure out what the balance or conceptual improvement this is supposed to bring is. Sorcerous Step is usable for problem solving anyway. Sigils have short enough durations that it's not like you could easily pre-buff for combat (and even if you did, you'd still be using up a ton of your resources anyway for minor buffs with short durations, since it still takes a minute to get your animus back). Runes are only usable for fighting anyway. What's the purpose of restricting this?
  • Blade Meditation's damage dealt is weird. Since it only applies to one attack per round, it's going to scale from being fairly powerful at really low levels to being totally irrelevant later; and it gets weaker as a fight rages on and you use your energy.
  • Animus economy seems really harshly limited. A normal 15 PB blade mystic is probably starting the game with 14-16 Wis and ending it with 26-28 Wis. So, 2-3 to 8-9 animus at the start of a fight. Given that the cost of using level appropriate glyphs goes up at 8th and 15th level, and you only get a maximum of one point of animus each round from using a maneuver, it seems like you get relatively less power to throw around at higher levels, unless you burn actions on Font of Animus, which only comes into play right at the end of the game, at 19th level.
  • Quell Magic just seems useless unless for anything other than making an effect easier for someone else to dispel. By the time you get it, your Wisdom modifier will never be high enough to suspend a magical effect cast by someone who matters... and you can't use it out of combat anyway.
  • Font of Animus deals such a minor amount of damage you might as well not even waste the page space writing about it. It's like, 3% of the average health of a 19th level mystic.
  • Evasive Armor mentioning that it's usable once per encounter seems vestigial from a time where the ability might have lasted longer. It's meaningless since it'll last around 10 rounds, tops... and vanishes when used.
  • Does Flowing Blade mean ignoring concealment...?
  • Seems like Shadowmeld means concealment.
  • Incandescent Array: Guys, the game term is concealment. All of these abilities have their own slightly unique way of saying "attacks against the subject have a 20% chance of missing, similar to concealment", and should probably be standardized.


Aratrok wrote:

Know that I really like the Mystic and reading it makes me excited to play one at some point. But I'm still going to make a big list of things and gripe and nitpick about them because I want it to be even more awesome. :p

  • Under Maneuvers Readied, it says
    Maneuvers Readied wrote:
    If, at the end of your turn, you cannot be granted a maneuver because you have no withheld maneuvers remaining, you recover all expended maneuvers, and a new pair of readied maneuvers is granted to you.

    Which says that in this situation you always just get 2 maneuvers, since the clause for starting encounters with more maneuvers at higher levels says just that; it's only extra maneuvers that you start encounters with. Is this intentional? Because it seems like hitting your maneuver cap is pretty crippling for a mystic's options at higher levels.

  • Why can't you use animus outside of combat? It seems very, very strange, and I can't figure out what the balance or conceptual improvement this is supposed to bring is. Sorcerous Step is usable for problem solving anyway. Sigils have short enough durations that it's not like you could easily pre-buff for combat (and even if you did, you'd still be using up a ton of your resources anyway for minor buffs with short durations, since it still takes a minute to get your animus back). Runes are only usable for fighting anyway. What's the purpose of restricting this?
  • Blade Meditation's damage dealt is weird. Since it only applies to one attack per round, it's going to scale from being fairly powerful at really low levels to being totally irrelevant later; and it gets weaker as a fight rages on and you use your energy.
  • Animus economy seems really harshly limited. A normal 15 PB blade mystic is probably starting the game with 14-16 Wis and ending it with 26-28 Wis. So, 2-3 to 8-9 animus at the start of a fight. Given that the cost of using level appropriate glyphs goes up at 8th and 15th level, and you only get a maximum of one point of animus each
...
  • This was an erorr, I'll adjust this.
  • So that way people don't spam maneuvers outside of combat to build animus for fun and profit before they go into battle. It avoids bags of kittens and we all know how much I love those.
  • It's not supposed to be a primary damage dealer, it's supposed to be a mild to moderate deterrant for foes to attack you.
  • Use more maneuvers to build more animus, get those boosts and counters going and you'll get two per round semi-regularly. You'll also obviously start with higher animus as you advance, but it might be a plan to increase the starting animus a little.
  • If you've got an action readied for Quelling, and you reduce my caster level for that spell to the point where I can't cast it, the spell fizzles. That's not a bad thing at all. Also suppressing a magical effect can definitely help from time to time.

    I'll adjust the glyphs. Thank you for your help!

    -X


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    Spell dodge says exceptional instead of extraordinary in its text block.

    Sorcererous step could use some rewording, it makes it seem like you need a full round action of concentrating to get a swift action teleport. I assume the full round clause was for out of combat.

    Quell magic also seems a little too weak I think, maybe lower the effective spell level instead, and if the level goes below 0 its canceled. I say that because as is it will take at minimum 3 rounds to get enough animus to cancel a spell when you get the ability(assuming +7 wis modifier and using a boost and maneuver each round.), which you wouldn't be able to do again for a long time afterwards either. On top of that it's a standard action so you'll have to use a readied action to even hope for it to work, and that's a round where you aren't hitting people.

    Overall I really like the class, good work!


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    So far this is a lot of fun. I like the revitalization of the random mechanic, though I think that the "signature" maneuever idea is cool. It would help keep animus working as intended (what happens when you draw no boosts and counters?). I think 3 signature maneuvers, distributed over the levels, would be ideal.

    As for the runes, I feel that the basic runes that grant additional energy damage can be combined into one rune that uses your active energy type. Other than that, a lot of them are very very cool.

    The Sorcerous Bloodline feat feels a little unfair to Bloodragers. Any chance you could make the requirements less steep for them? Perhaps base it off of sorcerer and bloodrager level? I think level 4 is fair, since that is when sorcerers gain 2nd level spells, but it doesn't lock Bloodragers out until 7th level (This bloodrager would have to take the feat at 7th level, but wait until 8th level to get their first Mystic level. If they took Mystic levels first, they would have to take the feat at 9th level).

    The Hone Weapon feat is very cool. Really flavorful, and a nice reward to someone who plays a battlesmith.

    I haven't gotten all the way through Elemental Flux, but I am incredibly fond of your idea to have it use active energy type. The maneuvers that I have read are very fun, especially the stances that grant variable abilities.


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    Do Warlord/Warder/Stalker/Mystic/Harbinger with Sleeping Goddess "in-class" count as a "Psionic class" for psicrystal progression and detect psionics?

    Is there a definition of "attack" for boosts in Elemental Flux? Invisibility's description has the only one I could find, and it explicitly includes "blast" spells. Do these boosts work with them?


    deuxhero wrote:

    Do Warlord/Warder/Stalker/Mystic/Harbinger with Sleeping Goddess "in-class" count as a "Psionic class" for psicrystal progression and detect psionics?

    Is there a definition of "attack" for boosts in Elemental Flux? Invisibility's description has the only one I could find, and it explicitly includes "blast" spells. Do these boosts work with them?

    1st question:

    Zealot document wrote:
    The Sleeping Goddess discipline unlocks the power of the mind, allowing its adepts to tap into their psionic talent. You gain power points equal to the highest level Sleeping Goddess maneuver you know (including stances), plus one additional power point for each Sleeping Goddess maneuver known beyond the first (including stances). If you already have a power point pool, you add those points to it. If you do not have a power point pool, you gain one as well as the psionic subtype. You do not gain bonus power points for a high initiation modifier (though you do gain bonus power points for having a high key ability score if you have levels in a manifester class, as normal).

    This is really the only line that sorta sticks out to answer this question and sadly it doesn't really help. I'm going to say that it gives you the psionic subtype, just as the bolded text says, but the psionic subtype does not a psionic class make. So no, that doesn't add. Zealot would, or a specifically psi-typed archetype, but otherwise no.

    I would define an attack as an attack action:

    http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Attack

    That said, it's something that requires you to make an attack or full attack action, making an attack roll against a target. I would say no, you cannot throw it on a scorching ray or a fireball for three reasons (in ascending importance). 1) That is totally against the spirit of what we're trying to do here as its pretty obvious what the RAI is here. 2) Spells are not attack actions, they are standard actions (or whatever they are otherwise, but not attack actions or full attack actions). 3) There are many things that are not defined in Pathfinder; Paizo inherited many of these things from WotC, who in turn inherited this stuff from TSR. We're not here to fix the system, we can't. We don't have that power. If they don't define things well, we can do our best but we can't write patch rules.

    I can only ask you follow the RAW until you hit a "this is not clearly defined" thing in the Pathfinder rules, then do your best to follow the RAI. Energy damage, for example, is not actually well defined in the Pathfinder. With all of those evocation spells out there, not well defined. At. All. This is a book of martial maneuvers, not ways to make spells better. Elemental Flux especially is a way of saying, "hey, I don't have magic but I have this!" It's not intended to work with a spell; if your DM allows it that's on them, but as the designer I'm saying No, a spell is not an attack. It's a spell.

    -X


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    deuxhero wrote:

    Do Warlord/Warder/Stalker/Mystic/Harbinger with Sleeping Goddess "in-class" count as a "Psionic class" for psicrystal progression and detect psionics?

    There are ways to gain psionic powers and a pool, that aren't related to class, so no unless it states it counts. I think even some of the psionic classes (AEGIS) have power points but don't advance or have a "normal" ML so can't take the feat psicrystal affinity.

    As for detect psionics, the default is psi/magic transparency, it is odd that they would have creatures with just a power point pool (ie someone took wild talent to get a psionic feat like deadly throw) register, yet a 20th level mage without any ongoing effects doesn't register. Peculiar to say the least.


    Okay, let's go through a run down of stuff I've quietly changed in Mystic and Flux. Lots.

    -Many Flux maneuvers got touched on based on Keledrath's review of it. I'd honestly tackle it like it was new.
    -I also added in an animus augmentation mechanic to some of the maneuvers as sort of a test it out thing. Let me know what you think.
    -Maneuvers grant you two - count 'em TWO - specifically chosen maneuvers by YOU from your readied maneuvers before randomizing the rest as granted maneuvers. When the cycle ends (i.e. no new maneuvers to grant or if you use Blade Meditation) you reset and start at square one and get TWO chosen maneuvers and the granting starts all over again.
    -I've altered starting animus to 1 + Wisdom modifier to keep it in line with the alterations to Tap Animus.
    -I've changed the damage on Blade Meditation to be significantly better and based it on your active element.
    -Changes to Sorcerous Step for use out of combat.
    -Spell Dodge replaced with Withstand Spell to make it less like Evasion+.
    -Tried to clarify Quell Magic a bit.
    -Removed silly damage to self on Font of Animus
    -Increased potency on Arcane Defense to add AC as well as saves.
    -Instant Enlightenment comes online a little earlier.
    -Made some adjustments to Hone feat and eliminated Improved Hone.
    -Made some adjustments to Tap Animus feat.
    -Added Extra Granted Maneuver feat.
    -Changed a few glyphs (Brilliant Aura, Ferrous Shell and Magnetic Blade)
    -Made some significant changes to Anima Mystic - as in it should be actually playable now. Let me know if it's still weird or if it's missing rules. I think I caught everything (how to build animas, flares, it's all Charisma now, etc).

    Yeah.

    I think that's it.

    -X


    Something that Jade has brought to my attention is that it could be misconstrued that Elemental Flux is more tied to its owning class (Mystic) than say other classes previous to it (Scarlet Throne with Warlord or Cursed Razor with Harbinger, for examples). Such is not my intent and I want to clarify my intent so we can work together to get the writing for the rules to more easily reflect this.

    Elemental Flux at a base gives you an active element mechanic and the means to change it. Meaning a stalker or a zealot could pick it up, and change up their stuff. If they took the Tap Animus feat, they could use the animus mechanics (I am totally not 100% on using these, just so we're clear, it was suggested and I'm seeing if they have traction or not).

    A Mystic's Elemental Focus allows for them to change the damage type of their maneuvers (including Flux if applicable) and have them cause damage instead as their active element (i.e. a mystic with active element of fire using a Broken Blade maneuver could do fire damage instead of say piercing damage if he was using a spear).

    This is my intent, this is what I was going for. If I've missed the mark here, then lame, let's get this writing tightened up and make sure we're all on the same page. Mystic owns Flux for sure, but it could be anyone's with a Tradition or a trait or something. I don't want you to think that your class would suck without Flux.

    -X


    (wow triple post, quiet thread)

    SURVEY TIME

    Mystic. Love or hate it, it's intent is to be a somewhat mobile martial buffer by using its maneuvers, glyphs, and whatever else to make allies better and enemies to hate them.

    How do you feel we could make Mystic a better martial buffer (and please let's not bring up the recovery mechanic! :P).

    Points of reference:

    Similar: Warlord fills a similar role with its gambits, class features, and access to Golden Lion. He's your buddy and wants you to succeed.

    Opposing: Harbinger fills an entirely opposite role, in that they are mobile controllers that inflict debuff and harm upon a foe.

    So how are we feeling? Can we make Mystic do its job better? What are we doing right, wrong, and what could we do better?

    -X


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    Ha! I will mention recovery mechanic anyway!

    I actually really think it's in a good spot right now and really like it.


    I can think of two things that elemental flux could do to assist allies:
    -Wind to increase ally movement speeds
    -Water to cushion blows/catch bullets, possibly at a range. Though it would have to be a counter higher level than 2 (since otherwise it would just be a better version of the Golden Lion counter that does similar things)


    I'm cross-posting this with the other thread(s) involved and also folding it into the main Lords of the Night document, but I am excited and pleased to announce that Unquiet Grave, an undeath-themed martial discipline, is ready for playtesting. This discipline and an associated Tradition will be featured in Lords of the Night. Have at it!


    Big lot of edits to some wording on Mystic plus a bunch of alterations to Elemental Flux's overall wording to clean up technical language and some additions to new abilities to some maneuvers and stances, PLUS a new 9th level that doesn't suck.

    -X


    I read up on the latest verson of flux and the mystic and... damn.... totally worth the wait. Although as a whole the class seems a bit unpolished the core idea is rock solid. I do admit that with all the little moving parts it'll require some more read throughs to get a complete understanding of the workings of this class. Nonetheless, these are my remarks so far:

    - The class as a whole seems a tad underpowered compared to other PoW classes or pathfinder classes as a whole. The randomness of withheld maneuvers begs for either maneuvers performed by the mystic to be stronger or for the mystic to have something else to do in addition to maneuvers. The first is only partially accomplished. Only Elemental Flux can be boosted and then not always in quite a meaninful way. Perhaps the bossting of maneuvers could be 'baked into' the mystic instead of Flux? This way you are not forced to take flux to use your class feature. On the latter, I fear the glyphs are of questionable value in combat, but I'll have to read them a few more times before I get a clearer picture.

    - I like the Anima archetype and, like many over on GitP, I too would like this ability merged again with the base class (perhaps at the cost of something else). This could solve the underpowered comment I made earlier (although playtesting would be required of course). The archetype could stay with an even greater focus on or a greater version of anima (it really feels like some kind of wild mage or something which is awesome). However, if the archetype is to stay in one form or the other, I would refrain from switching to charisma as the main stat. By switching it up you force the entire character in another role (mainly face) for no reason, with much less support for that kind of character. It would, for example, hurt things like multiclassing with monk.

    - On Flux; I really like the latest version! I do however miss some of the more fun abilities (or they come at very high levels). For example: more ranged attacks (Energy strike and Torrent are nice but where are the others? For example one that allows you to make all attacks at range), more area attacks (Lance of Power and the Ring are great but where are the beefier version of Lance or lesser version of Ring? While the upgraded torrent is nice, some fireball-esque power would be great too!), Master of the Elements is supercool, but where is the lesser version for people who don't play so high level?

    Uhoh this went on longer than I expected. I will conclude that I thus far greatly appreciate the Mystic. Good job!


    Scorpioni wrote:

    I read up on the latest verson of flux and the mystic and... damn.... totally worth the wait. Although as a whole the class seems a bit unpolished the core idea is rock solid. I do admit that with all the little moving parts it'll require some more read throughs to get a complete understanding of the workings of this class. Nonetheless, these are my remarks so far:

    *SNIP*

    - On Flux; I really like the latest version! I do however miss some of the more fun abilities (or they come at very high levels). For example: more ranged attacks (Energy strike and Torrent are nice but where are the others? For example one that allows you to make all attacks at range), more area attacks (Lance of Power and the Ring are great but where are the beefier version of Lance or lesser version of Ring? While the upgraded torrent is nice, some fireball-esque power would be great too!), Master of the Elements is supercool, but where is the lesser version for people who don't play so high level?

    Hmm, I'm going to mull over on this one and cross post this to GitP as well. I welcome you to join us over there to continue the discussion as well, and I will respond with results here. I want to get some more opinions on your statements.

    I will address Flux stuff though.

    Flux needs to straddle the line between spells and martial arts, first and foremost. Almost all of its maneuvers can be used at range with a ranged weapon. I included a line-attack (Lance of Power) because the energy emanates from you, same with the Ring. I didn't do a fireball-esque because it doesn't emanate from you in its full form unlike the others. So Flux is actually VERY ranged friendly, just not solely energy ray friendly (though it has some of that too). As far as Master of the Elements? Well, I don't want lesser versions of the same stance because stances aren't exchangeable; that's why many stances of 1st level in the Path of War line actually have a scaling benefit.

    -X


    I'll be honest and say that I'm eyeing a lot of Path of War from the perspective of a melee build (weapon and/or unarmed) as opposed to ranged. In that light, indeed a lot of the maneuvers are useable at range, like an arcane archer on steroids.

    To return to my Flux comments; Is there some design goal/principle preventing you from allowing long ranges or wide areas? If not, perhaps Lance of Power could allow animus to upgrade range in addition to damage (for example use 1 animus to increase to range X, then an extra 2 animus for +4d6 damage). This way you don't need a lot of different versions of the same power as each power is highly customisable (uniquely to the mystic). Similar things could be done to other maneuvers.

    For Master of the Elements, since duplicate stances are a no go, would it be possible to move the stance to a lower level with a decreased effect (Elemental Body I) then allow it to gradually scale (perhaps even to Elemental Body IV at Initiator Level 17)

    I'll try to make an account on GitP and join the discussion there.


    I have a question about the Harbinger.

    Accursed Will when it applies damage. Is the insight bonus a flat or does it fluctuate like the strength bonus in regards to two-weapon fighting and wielding two handed weapons.


    Oliver Veyrac wrote:

    I have a question about the Harbinger.

    Accursed Will when it applies damage. Is the insight bonus a flat or does it fluctuate like the strength bonus in regards to two-weapon fighting and wielding two handed weapons.

    Flat, my friend.


    I like this one.

    Quote:


    Headstone Breaking Strike
    Unquiet Grave (Strike)
    Level: 2
    Prerequisites: None
    Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: Creature struck
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You mimic the savage fury of the undying, breaking the bodies of your foes. Make a melee attack. If it hits, it deals weapon damage as normal, plus an additional 4 points of damage to a physical ability score of your choice (Fortitude save half). This ability damage ignores the normal immunity to physical ability damage enjoyed by undead creatures, including their immunity to effects that require a Fortitude save, though they still cannot suffer Constitution damage.

    I would also allow this to harm constructs, seeing how it bypasses fortitude saves and there isn't much in terms of offensive attacks on constructs.


    Also noticed still not much love for the Mithral Current. I kind of like it on the Mystic more so then the Veiled Moon.

    Veiled Moon is indeed nice for mobility, however Mithral Current makes me think of a lot of water based abilities.


    ErrantX wrote:

    Okay, so, here it is. Please be gentle.

    The Mystic. Provide feedback here or on the DSP forum! Thanks!

    -X

    I like the Mystic, especially the Anima's, I am also glad that you used wisdom instead of charisma. Wisdom is for the most part emotions, and the ability to read them (Sense Motive).

    I am not too fond of the Veiled Moon or the Broken Blade(These are more or less stalker types) with this one. I would actually add the Mithral Current as it has the elemental feel that the class has. Solar Wind is heavy fire damage so I like it with it, more so then any other class. I actually am building a Mystic with a focus on Solar Wind and the Riven Hourglass (Magus from Chronotrigger anyone, instead of using a scythe using a bow).


    So, I skimmed the document and I really REALLY like 75% about the Mystic. It needs some editing here and there to clarify some stuff and there are typos, but the idea is excellent. I love the runes and the idea of a scaling pool that goes up as you do stuff is the kind of genius that got ErrantX leading this project. It's all very cool.

    The 25% I don't like though... I really don't like it. And it's the recovery mechanic. I can't see myself ever playing a Mystic with that mechanic, specially with the maneuvers in PoW being a lot more diverse than they were in ToB. You are forced to either specialize your maneuver selection to make sure you can do what you are supposed to do (giving up on outlier maneuvers that are cool but more situational) or take those maneuvers and risk being a lot less useful plenty of times. I don't know, I just don't like it.


    Note: The Stalker, Warlord, and Warder all have 5 or less disciplines while the Mystic has 6.

    Just noticed Mystic has Broken Blade.... I'm probably not the only one less than thrilled to see that. Broken Blade is the strongest early level discipline and maintains ridiculous levels of pwnage throughout. Can we get a different discipline to replace it or just knock it off so the Mystic has 5 disciplines?

    Also, once again noting I love the card draw recovery mechanic.


    If I were to do the Mystic I would allow it to have the following :
    Mithral Current, Elemental Flux, Riven Hourglass, Shattered Mirror, and Solar Wind

    But that's just me :) I agree with Insain Dragoon and that is because Broken Blade should be the number one for a stalker. That's just me being biased I suppose.

    I think that if that were the case it would be phenomenal.

    Also I think it's skills should be change to something like this:
    Autohypnosis (Wis), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all) (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magical Device (Cha).

    Less focus on the physical skills because the Mystic isn't so much a melee class, but more of a mage-esque class. The 4+int modifier is good seeing how the class is wisdom based and not int based like a wizard is.

    I love the glyphs and the animas' I am a huge fan of the class and will be playing one here shortly. Thanks to our rebuild rules I think it will be well worth my characters 25k gp investment to change his levels. :)


    one last thing for the mystic, if I recall it should be Sorcerous and not sorcererous for the step ability >.>


    First I want to say thank you to everyone who's reading this class over and participating in the open beta. Your feedback is incredibly valuable, as are your suggestions and ideas on how to make the class better. While I may not reply individually to everyone, your comments are being read and processed and if I see trends, I address them.

    Secondly, some new Mystic changes: Skills have changed some. Mystics can not cast a glyph as part of the initiating of a martial strike (any target within close range) or as a swift action as before. Also, the mystic now generates a point of animus per combat round, initiating maneuvers still of course also grants you a point of animus. I've decided to take some advice and remove Broken Blade and added Mithral Current to their list of disciplines. Add some more animus augments to Flux, and attempted to clean up some of the wording on glyphs.

    -X


    Oliver Veyrac wrote:

    I like this one.

    Quote:


    Headstone Breaking Strike
    Unquiet Grave (Strike)
    Level: 2
    Prerequisites: None
    Initiation Action: 1 Standard action
    Range: Melee attack
    Target: Creature struck
    Duration: Instantaneous

    You mimic the savage fury of the undying, breaking the bodies of your foes. Make a melee attack. If it hits, it deals weapon damage as normal, plus an additional 4 points of damage to a physical ability score of your choice (Fortitude save half). This ability damage ignores the normal immunity to physical ability damage enjoyed by undead creatures, including their immunity to effects that require a Fortitude save, though they still cannot suffer Constitution damage.

    I would also allow this to harm constructs, seeing how it bypasses fortitude saves and there isn't much in terms of offensive attacks on constructs.

    I've mulled this over for a bit, but ultimately this strike is probably going to see some nerfs because it's a bit overtuned at the moment, and adding more utility is just gonna raise flags. I appreciate the suggestion, though!


    I did some format changes to the Class templates doc, and Piercing Thunder is updated there as well.

    Also, some changes to Anima Mystic in how it's combat works, as well as its proficiencies. Everyone wanted an unarmed combat thing, so I said, "Eh, why not?" so Anima Mystic is the unarmed combat Mystic, and normal Mystic is better with weapons.

    Working next on Psi-Mystic and the fighter archetype that I am pretty sure I finished is around here somewhere....

    -X


    Good to see you so active, ErrantX ^^

    Can we expect an archetype with a non-random recovery mechanic for the mystic? Please? Pretty please? With a cherry on top? :)


    true_shinken wrote:

    Good to see you so active, ErrantX ^^

    Can we expect an archetype with a non-random recovery mechanic for the mystic? Please? Pretty please? With a cherry on top? :)

    Has there been an archetype that replaced the recovery mechanic on the other classes?

    Recovery mechanics seem to be part and parcel to what the class is, a defining characteristic. You can swap out the disciplines as wanted, being able to cherry pick your choice of recovery would be a bit much.


    Glad to be active again!

    As far as swapping recovery methods, we experimented with it some with stalker, and it had mixed reception to my understanding. Some preferred the little bundle of murder approach of the standard stalker, and then there are the harbinger fans that loved the soul claiming of the soul hunter.

    The results were varied. I'll talk to Jade about other replacements and we'll decide together if that's a thing we want to work on, but for now I think recovery replacement mechanics will be less common.

    -X


    I mentioned it specifically because I'm a huge fan of the soul hunter.

    But if that isn't possible, any feats or archetypes that grant an anima pool would be the next best thing.


    Feedback for new piercing lance

    Spoiler:

    -Stance of Piercing Thunder: Woah, just about best first level stance in the game. AC bonus of the dodge variety, can be used while two handing, adds damage, scales, and gives you farther reach. This is like Scarlet Throne's first level stance on steroids. I think this is too much for a single stance accessible at level one. If I were to rewrite it, it would just give farther reach.

    -Phalanx Lancer: Seems to do the same thing as Piercing Lance Style feat and it's kinda sad to lock something as cool as wielding a polearm in one hand to a specific stance. Also it overall does less than Stance of Piercing Thunder. Considering that the 3rd level stance is usually the big money for an initiator, maybe this one should be reworked to be as generally awesome as the other 3rd level stances?

    -In general a lot of the bonus dice for this discipline are inflated compared to other disciplines with the same role. Especially Iron Lancer's Edge and similar boosts.

    -Overall I'm sad to see that this discipline focuses almost entirely on damage, which is something martials never lacked. This discipline exists to boost the damage capacity of two of the strongest forms of melee fighting (reach and mounted) to ridiculous levels. I have similar complaints over other disciplines, but didn't have much opportunity to leave feedback for PoW1. As it is, Piercing Lance does not live up to the promise of "making martial combat more interesting" unless your idea of more interesting is rolling more dice and making bigger numbers.

    TL;DR: It still has the same problems as before.


    I'm currently in the middle of beating Piercing Thunder with a stick until it dies, borrowing some of Knives' hate and discontent and using that to defibrillate the ever lovin' #@$#@ out of it until it acts right and behaves as a reasonable discipline.

    This is my attempt at comedy while simultaneously saying I'm reworking Thunder as we speak.

    Also, MAJOR changes to mystic archetypes (There are two now, Aurora Fist and Mandala Adept), adjustments to Mystic and Flux as well. Working on Fighter archetype!

    -X


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    Aurora fist sounds pretty cool honestly. So at 17th level they would full attack with 12/12/12/7/2 and with 2 weapon fighting tree 10/10/10/5/2+off hand 10/5/2? With Broken Blade Stance add another full BAB punch and +2 damage. With initiator modifier to damage this guy is gonna drill people lol!

    Almost makes me not want to ask this question. Are there any plans in the magic item section to give unarmed characters an option besides amulet of the mighty fists? Particularly if they simply want to enchant one of their fists and not both?

    Also glad to hear that about Piercing Thunder!


    I've always houseruled enchanted linen hand-wraps or studded leather gloves, etc that count as magic weapons for enhancement purposes (read as: CHEAPER) that also allowed you to use your unarmed strike stuff as a monk. Another house rule I've done was to allow a monk (or similar, such as Aurora Fist mystic) to stack their unarmed combat stuff onto monk weapons to basically get weapon damage + enhancements + unarmed strike dice per hit to reflect their ability to kick some serious tail. Helped them out to be able to compete better in my games, at least on the combat end. Maybe we'll come up with some stuff like that.

    -X


    I would be 100% for magic hand wraps actually and I always allowed the same in my games.

    I'd be a bit iffy on the dmg die to weapons since I always viewed the damage die increase as the trade off for crit range and weapon properties. Though I'm not a designer and it's just as possible I'm missing something in that equation.

    Also I would like to say that Aurora Fist with Broken Blade would, in fact, be able to say "you're already dead" after a beat down.


    Broken Blade and Primal Fury's damage caps got a bit out control and it's getting an over all damage cap reduction in the forthcoming errata we're putting together. Make it more in line with Dragon or Throne.

    -X


    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    That's pretty great news to my ears actually! In my home game the Warlord focused on Scarlet Throne+Golden Lion, which I was thankful for. These disciplines had interesting combat options compared to Primal Fury and the damage he dealt was in line with his level. If he had gone Primal Fury it wouldn't have been pretty for the monsters or for the Barbarian in the group who liked being "the smasher."


    ErrantX wrote:
    Make it more in line with Dragon or Throne.

    18 base STR, greatsword, power attack

    Note that first three calculations use only Scarlet Throne maneuvers, and no stances.

    Level 3, Regal Blade, Rising Zenith Strike. Average monster HP - 30.
    damage (7 weapon + 6 str + 3 PA + 4.5 boost)*2 strike = 41

    Level 9, Noble Blade, Ruby Zenith Strike. +2 weapon, +4 str belt. Average monster HP - 115.
    damage (9 weapon + 10 str + 9 PA + 9 boost)*3 strike = 111
    Thanks to Discipline Mastery it's nigh-impossible to miss AC now.

    Level 15, Royal Blade, Descending Sunset Strike, +5 weapon, +6 str belt. Average monster HP - 220.
    damage (12 weapon + 12 str + 12 PA + 22.5 boost)*4 strike = 234

    Level 20, Black Seraph Wrath, Descending Sunset Strike, Iron Hide Stance, +5 weapon, +6 str belt, +5 str wishes, +10 Intimidate item. Average monster HP - 370.
    damage (12 weapon + 36 str + 18 PA + 43 boost)*4 strike = 436


    If I remember correct extra damage dice aren't multiplied? So we'd see something more like

    3: (~7+6+3)*2+4.5= 37.5

    For the other calculations the numbers are a bit confusing? Where is the weapon damage increasing from? Discipline Focus? That explains 9, but not 12. The damage dice from the boosts don't get multiplied, so that's lowering your calculations.

    9: (9+10+9)*3+9= 93

    15: (9+12+12)*4+22.5= 154.5

    That's still pretty impressive damage though!

    I'd think the Zenith Strike line should have the multiplier reduced by 1 across the board though since *4 damage on a super accurate attack is pretty intense and better than most full attacks since you don't have to deal with wimpy iteratives.


    The only multiplication rule I've found is that dice from strikes are not multiplied on crits.
    Weapon damage is increased by +++ weapons.

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