Dreamscarred Press Announces: Path of War Expanded!


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Paizo Employee Design Manager

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ErrantX wrote:

We're trying to change up some of how we do PrC's for this next book, and I'm developing some errata for the PrCs in the previous book as well. We're going with a more fighting style and aspects of disciplines that match up with that fighting style more this time.

Edit:
Also, wondering where all the traffic went on this thread? I used to get lots of posts from Paizo - did you all just stop wanting martial books over in this bend of the internet? Did we offend you? I know we can be kinda casual at times, but we try to make it so you're talking to friends and not some soulless guy. So... what's up?

-X

I know Yuengling and I were really active in the first playtest and posted a lot, but both of us have moved on to designing our own products and just haven't had as much time for this one.


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ErrantX wrote:

Okay, because I was afraid we'd offended some of our friends here and I'd be honestly sad if we had alienated some folks. I know that some of us as designers have strong opinions on where things go, citing specifically some math problems moderately recently, but I am hoping that did not quell interest in this product. Hopefully with summer coming and with Harbinger released officially and I think Mystic is slotting up next, we'll have a little more buzz on this site.

-X

I ain't scared. I just kinda stopped postibg because nobody else seems to post.

I guess I try to start discussion here more often. Also, I would say that Primal fury with the Tenebrous reach combo is worse, but its also on the slate for errata.


Ssalarn wrote:
ErrantX wrote:

We're trying to change up some of how we do PrC's for this next book, and I'm developing some errata for the PrCs in the previous book as well. We're going with a more fighting style and aspects of disciplines that match up with that fighting style more this time.

Edit:
Also, wondering where all the traffic went on this thread? I used to get lots of posts from Paizo - did you all just stop wanting martial books over in this bend of the internet? Did we offend you? I know we can be kinda casual at times, but we try to make it so you're talking to friends and not some soulless guy. So... what's up?

-X

I know Yuengling and I were really active in the first playtest and posted a lot, but both of us have moved on to designing our own products and just haven't had as much time for this one.

Was Yuengling working with you or what is he working on?

-X

Paizo Employee Design Manager

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ErrantX wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:


I know Yuengling and I were really active in the first playtest and posted a lot, but both of us have moved on to designing our own products and just haven't had as much time for this one.

Was Yuengling working with you or what is he working on?

-X

He was doing some work with... I want to say Flying Pincushion Games, but that might not be right. I believe he's moved on to writing and editing for another company (or maybe self publishing?) since then. Last I heard he was doing something with dinosaurs.


I know Tenebrous Reach got a lot of heat in the current Harbinger reviews for being pretty against the grain set by other Harby class features. I personally would like to see it replaced as a feature.


Prince of Knives wrote:


Wanted to note for ya that Broken Blade is an acknowledged problem child; we're working on errata for it.

thanks. but as said, no worries. this is in a mythic gestalt pbp with templates, so all of us are "problem childs" in this campaign anyway ;) just trying to wrap my head around those builds using stuff I did not know before as i'll be buffing/supporting/debuffing, and a basic understanding of what they are trying to achieve will be quite helpful for that.

Thanks for the fast response though.


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ErrantX wrote:

Edit:

Also, wondering where all the traffic went on this thread? I used to get lots of posts from Paizo - did you all just stop wanting martial books over in this bend of the internet? Did we offend you? I know we can be kinda casual at times, but we try to make it so you're talking to friends and not some soulless guy. So... what's up?

-X

I've stepped away from discussion of the book not because of lack of interest for the material but because Path of War came out right around the time where I started taking a break from Pathfinder. It will probably be another couple of months before I return to it, so I haven't had time to dive into all the new material. It's been Shadowrun 5e, then FATE, now Paranoia, and then it will be New World of Darkness (Hunter, probably) for a few months.

I've already started prepping for running a Legacy of Fire game after that, and I intend to use Path of War Material (and maybe some Tome of Battle, too), so I'll probably come back around, asking questions about what maneuvers/classes would make good additions to NPC and enemy stat blocks.


I'm pleased to show off my first Prestige Class for Path of War: Expanded, the Phoenix Champion. I'm curious to see your opinions on it.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Elricaltovilla wrote:
I'm pleased to show off my first Prestige Class for Path of War: Expanded, the Phoenix Champion. I'm curious to see your opinions on it.

With the "must be able to initiate 3rd level maneuvers" prereq already in there, is the BAB +4 requirement necessary? It creates a situation where the full BAB initiators can access the PrC faster and that seems off. Just a minor nitpick though, overall I like it.


Ssalarn wrote:
Elricaltovilla wrote:
I'm pleased to show off my first Prestige Class for Path of War: Expanded, the Phoenix Champion. I'm curious to see your opinions on it.
With the "must be able to initiate 3rd level maneuvers" prereq already in there, is the BAB +4 requirement necessary? It creates a situation where the full BAB initiators can access the PrC faster and that seems off. Just a minor nitpick though, overall I like it.

That BAB requirement was deliberate. Full BAB classes get earlier entry, 3/4 BAB classes get to advance key class features.


ErrantX wrote:

Also, wondering where all the traffic went on this thread? I used to get lots of posts from Paizo - did you all just stop wanting martial books over in this bend of the internet? Did we offend you? I know we can be kinda casual at times, but we try to make it so you're talking to friends and not some soulless guy. So... what's up?

-X

You definitely didn't offend me. My comp died last week (I seem to be having issues with the HD the OS is on, its the oldest on in there so its to be expected I guess) and I have yet to get it fully back online, using a linux live CD right now. Before that I didnt have much to post about, but was watching the thread closely. Had it in my RSS Feed reader. :)


I might end up joining a new pathfinder game soonish, and since path of war is likely to be allowed I was thinking of trying out the myrmidon fighter.

From what I heard, the game is likely to go from 6th level to 10th level or so, and with little player choice in what equipment and magic items we get.

Am I correct when I assume that the text is correct and I should use the table at the top of the archetype document for my maneuver progression? And that the table Table: The Myrmidon in the middle of the archetype is wrong?

I am thinking of combining myrmidon with lore warden and maybe martial master. Is both weapon training and maneuver mastery needed needed to keep up with CMD, or do you think being able to grab feats as I need them will be more useful? Also, what is the best way to deal with the
low AC of a lore warden? Should I just assume that I won't get attacked all that much and hope my hp is high enough due to using a polearm + combat reflexes + trip?

For disciplines, I was thinking Throne and either Solar Wind or Tempest Gale. Then I will swap in either Crane or Seraph with a tradition depending upon what will fit best with the party. I am not sure about my 4th discipline.

As for feats, I think I will invest in tripping. I kind of want to invest in dirty trick as well, but it seems to costly to go for two different maneuvers. So I guess I might pick up Improved Unarmed Strike and Cornugon Smash/Hurtful instead.

The idea is to have a plain old fighting man, who took a level in badass. Also, go human fighter with 7 + int skill points per level.

Edit: Also, why did you choose to demand a feat tax in the form of weapon focus/discipline focus into the grit recovery rules?


Lirya wrote:

I might end up joining a new pathfinder game soonish, and since path of war is likely to be allowed I was thinking of trying out the myrmidon fighter.

From what I heard, the game is likely to go from 6th level to 10th level or so, and with little player choice in what equipment and magic items we get.

Am I correct when I assume that the text is correct and I should use the table at the top of the archetype document for my maneuver progression? And that the table Table: The Myrmidon in the middle of the archetype is wrong?

I did not realize that table was still there. Use the table at the top of the document, I'm going to check and see if the myrmidon is special or not.

EDIT: Ignore what I said above. The myrmidon is supposed to have its own maneuver progression table. Use the one in the myrmidon section.

Lirya wrote:

I am thinking of combining myrmidon with lore warden and maybe martial master. Is both weapon training and maneuver mastery needed needed to keep up with CMD, or do you think being able to grab feats as I need them will be more useful? Also, what is the best way to deal with the

low AC of a lore warden? Should I just assume that I won't get attacked all that much and hope my hp is high enough due to using a polearm + combat reflexes + trip?

I personally love combining myrmidon with lore warden and martial master. If you focus more on dexterity than strength, you'll have less to worry about from the lorewarden's low AC. Piercing Thunder Style, Weapon Finesse and Deadly Agility should set you up nicely for DEX focus.

Lirya wrote:
For disciplines, I was thinking Throne and either Solar Wind or Tempest Gale. Then I will swap in either Crane or Seraph with a tradition depending upon what will fit best with the party. I am not sure about my 4th discipline.

Why Solar Wind or Tempest Gale? You're not building an archer, so why invest in them? I'd recommend focusing on Piercing Thunder (since you're using a polearm) and Scarlet Throne, with whichever of Silver Crane or Black Seraph you want later. You won't really have room to focus on all 4 disciplines, so focus on the ones that actually fit best with your combat style (polearms).

Lirya wrote:

As for feats, I think I will invest in tripping. I kind of want to invest in dirty trick as well, but it seems to costly to go for two different maneuvers. So I guess I might pick up Improved Unarmed Strike and Cornugon Smash/Hurtful instead.

The idea is to have a plain old fighting man, who took a level in badass. Also, go human fighter with 7 + int skill points per level.

Tripping is a good combat maneuver, but there are a lot of creatures highly resistant or outright immune to trip. Dirty Trick is much more versatile, less easily resisted, and still offers great control options. You might still be able to squeeze in two combat maneuver chains depending on feat selection, and at upper levels, martial master will give you plenty of feats to play with as the combat changes.


The important part is to be effective at levels 6-10 or so. I would be very surprised if the game goes on past level 12. So martial master is never going to give more than 2 feats at a time.

The problem with a dex build is that the three feat tax is basically a full combat maneuver feat chain (improved/greater trip + fury's fall, or improved/greater dirty trick + quick dirty trick). Also, I believe I would need agile maneuvers if I were to use Dirty Trick? I would certainly need it if I were to martial master myself into the grapple feats.

I like having a ranged discipline with a stance + maybe a boost or a strike for times when it makes sense to pick up a bow to shoot down a kiting flyer or other faraway target.

Level 1: Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, (open)
Level 2: Combat Expertise
Level 3: Improved Trip/Dirty Trick
Level 4: (open)
Level 5: (open)
Level 6: No feat due to myrmidon

One of those open feats should probably be Improved Unarmed Strike, as from the sound of it we are likely to start naked breaking out of prison. We are unlikely to ever get a lot of magic items, and having something to threaten adjacent squares with is useful. It also makes it much easier to pick up Grapple using martial master.

I would also like to fit in feats like Lunge and Pushing Assault when I think about it. As attacking from 15 ft. away. And then tripping and pushing enemies on the aoo makes for classic polearm tactics.

I also really like Cornugon Smash + Hurtful to lay down the hurt as a swift action. Though I guess on a myrmidon I can get enough good immediate and swift actions for it not to be needed.

Once we reach 7th level, I can grab Greater (maneuver).

I know that a lot is immune to trip, but trip has the advantage of a better action economy (I can use it on an aoo), and it is easier to boost CMB with it. Between 2h power attack, and martial maneuvers I should probably have enough options to deal well with things immune to trip. Then again, dirty trick is super awesome and works against pretty much everything.

As you can see, finding feat space for a dex build isn't easy. And grit will likely be limited to wis mod per day, plus any the GM gives me for being awesome. As weapon focus or discipline focus just isn't going to fit.

By the way there is an error here then. As the table and the later entries both say a myrmidon begins her career with knowledge of four martial maneuvers.

myrmidon wrote:
Maneuvers Known (Ex): A myrmidon begins her career with knowledge of three martial maneuvers.

Edit: I looked up Piercing Lance Style, and that requires a stance as well. If I were to choose Silver Crane I would be using Silver Crane Waltz as my main stance. And as a Seraph I would probably take Black Seraph's Glare and use that instead of Cornugon Smash to trigger Hurtful. This means I only have one 1st level stance left as a utility stance until I reach 10th level, and I do not see what Piercing Lance can give me there that I want.


So I've started to tweak the NPCs and enemies in Legacy of Fire. Mostly just an extra level of warrior here, some redone feats and equipment there. I've started to assign some maneuvers to characters. I've given the Caravan Guards some Iron Tortoise and Golden Lion Maneuvers for example. I've also redone Major Domo Garavel as a longsword & board Warder.

I'm also looking at giving some of the mooks' sargeants some maneuvers to make them unique. Any suggestions on what would be some good low-level maneuvers to make characters better at strengthening their underlings? I personally prefer my enemies to be focused on defense/area control to help prevent rocket tag, and so that they're less likely to one shot a PC.


Guess nobody have PoW1 thread in RSS any more?

Does Steelfist Commando's Bonus Feat replace Warlord's Bonus Feat, or it's additional class feature? If it's the latter, wording is really awkward. In Ultimate release, it probably deserves another name or should directly state it's an addition, should give bonus feats at 6 14 and 18, and Unarmed Combat and Powerful Pugilist shouldn't replace anything.


Its a modification of their bonus feat class feature. Unarmed Combat and Powerful Pugilist then replace bonus feats from the modified bonus feat class feature. The Steelfist Commando does not have more feats than a vanilla warlord.


I started a thread in the 3rd party Rules Questions messageboard with some questions about different maneuvers and the Warlord, and I've gotten most of them answered. That said, I'm still puzzled by the Unbreakable Gambit, specifically:

Quote:

Risk: The warlord attempts to succeed on a Fortitude or Will save against an extraordinary ability, maneuver, power, spell, or spell-like or supernatural ability. The effect in question must be a harmless effect on a failed saving throw.

(...)

Reward: The warlord is emboldened by his ability to resist his opponent’s attack. (...)

Why would an opponent attack the warlord with an effect that offers a fortitude or will save and is harmless on a failed saving throw?


Kudaku wrote:

I started a thread in the 3rd party Rules Questions messageboard with some questions about different maneuvers and the Warlord, and I've gotten most of them answered. That said, I'm still puzzled by the Unbreakable Gambit, specifically:

Quote:

Risk: The warlord attempts to succeed on a Fortitude or Will save against an extraordinary ability, maneuver, power, spell, or spell-like or supernatural ability. The effect in question must be a harmless effect on a failed saving throw.

(...)

Reward: The warlord is emboldened by his ability to resist his opponent’s attack. (...)

Why would an opponent attack the warlord with an effect that offers a fortitude or will save and is harmless on a failed saving throw?

Hold Person, bestow curse, suggestion ect


Insain Dragoon wrote:
Kudaku wrote:

I started a thread in the 3rd party Rules Questions messageboard with some questions about different maneuvers and the Warlord, and I've gotten most of them answered. That said, I'm still puzzled by the Unbreakable Gambit, specifically:

Quote:

Risk: The warlord attempts to succeed on a Fortitude or Will save against an extraordinary ability, maneuver, power, spell, or spell-like or supernatural ability. The effect in question must be a harmless effect on a failed saving throw.

(...)

Reward: The warlord is emboldened by his ability to resist his opponent’s attack. (...)

Why would an opponent attack the warlord with an effect that offers a fortitude or will save and is harmless on a failed saving throw?
Hold Person, bestow curse, suggestion ect

That's the thing, I'm having a hard time seeing how being Cursed or Paralyzed is harmless?


Oh, looks like a typo. They must've meant harmless on a successful save.


Insain Dragoon wrote:
Oh, looks like a typo. They must've meant harmless on a successful save.

That's what I'm thinking, but I've asked about the Unbreakable Gambit in two threads and gotten two wildly different answers. It'd be really nice to have a clarification if possible. :)


Kudaku wrote:
Insain Dragoon wrote:
Oh, looks like a typo. They must've meant harmless on a successful save.
That's what I'm thinking, but I've asked about the Unbreakable Gambit in two threads and gotten two wildly different answers. It'd be really nice to have a clarification if possible. :)

Offensive spells are save or negate, so it doesn't work assuming a "typo".

Spells that don't inflict damage (aka harmless) are what they were trying to get at I believe.


I'ma quote self from other thread:

Quote:

Oooookay folks. I just double-checked with Chris, here to resolve the debate:

Unbreakable Gambit has a pretty severe set of typos in it. It's supposed to exclude harmless effects, so that you cannot recover maneuvers by saving easily against low-level buffs slung at you by allies or provided through potions or items. It's on the list for formal errata, and I appreciate it being brought to our attention. Sorry for the time lag in getting it answered.

Other questions will be addressed Soon(tm); this one seemed important to get handled up front.


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Quote:

Unbreakable Gambit

Risk: The warlord attempts to succeed on a Fortitude or Will save against an extraordinary ability, maneuver, power, spell, or spell-like or supernatural ability. This gambit is used on effects where the result of a successful saving throw either negates the effect or results in partial or halved effect. This gambit may not be used on effects where the result includes the (harmless) result. Unlike other gambits, this one can be attempted as an immediate action instead of a swift action.

This is on the errata list - that will be tackled when we're in the fine tuning stage of PoW:Expanded and Knives and I can split attention between the new content and actually fixing the old.

Use the above changes (I bolded it to make it a bit easier to see it).

-X


Whoops, posted in wrong thread

Sounds good!

By the way, as a dev what part of Path of War would you like feedback on most? I've stated my opinion on a lot of the stuff that really popped out at me, so it's less obvious where I should focus for now.


Insain Dragoon wrote:

Whoops, posted in wrong thread

Sounds good!

By the way, as a dev what part of Path of War would you like feedback on most? I've stated my opinion on a lot of the stuff that really popped out at me, so it's less obvious where I should focus for now.

Right now? Archetypes and PrCs. They're the biggest hurdle right now and I want them perfect before they touch real paper.


Reprinting a sidebar explaining the Path of War definition of combat may be useful considering all the abilities in the book that use combat to turn on abilities.

Primal Disciple:
I like it

Rubato:

Quote:
The rubato may expend a round of her bardic performance as a free action up to once per turn to generate 2 tempo, or vice versa.

So the Rubato can convert 1 Tempo into 2 rounds of performance? I'm not opposed to unlimited performance mechanics, but this does seem an uneven trade and this essentially lets the Rubato bypass feats like Lingering Performance.

I like the performances themselves and love how they actually seem useful compared to Inspire Courage.

Quote:
She may initiate two bardic performances with the same standard action and pays any associated costs for each separately.

By this point Bards can begin performance as a swift action. Depending on your intent I suggest these rewrites for the bolded section

"The same action"
"as a standard action"

Is it intended that Martial Performer replaces Versatile Performance and not Bardic Knowledge since I usually see archetypes replace Like with Like.

Myrmidon:
It's Fighter+, but that's not a bad thing. I'm making an exception to my hatred of Archetype+ because Fighter deserves every inch he can get. I still don't think it matches up to a Warlord, but it does a good job of shoring up several of the Fighters problems. Warriors determination and several Grit features are god sends. I like it, but it's probably gonna have some crazy DPR since it keeps Weapon Training. I don't care enough to run a comparison though.

The Omen Rider:
Accursed Will+Maneuvers+Mounted combat= Way too much damage for the intended purpose of the class. It's already a problem that Maneuvers work on Mounted charges and this is compounded in the Omen Rider.

I've played in a campaign where I was a Ranger riding a Hippogryph doing Mounted Lance Charges and at level 10 the Omen Rider can easily outdamage that character by just using a Boost from Piercing Thunder. Add in a Strike and it's even higher.

Additionally due to Ride By Attack+flight it's very easy to get into a situation where you can Mounted Charge every round and activate Ethereal Rider for a mostly-permanent 50% miss chance while ignoring AoOs from the primary charge Target.

Earlier I remember Prince of Knives talking about how the Hit an Run Tactics of a Harbinger diminish once enemies get big and have huge natural reach, but such concerns become irrelevant when you ignore their Threatened area completely on charges then sail right on past them. Unless they have pounce you will always win that damage race, especially with a 50% miss chance that seems to bypass true seeing?

Areas of Concern: 3xInt on Mounted Charges. Maneuvers+mounted Charges. Huge Safety that far exceeds the original Harbinger's. Capable of damage on par with full BAB damage focused classes while simultaneously unleashing Harbinger's powerful debuffs.

It's a cool archetype, but it's too much of a monster.

I'll go over more later.


Insain Dragoon wrote:


Myrmidon:
It's Fighter+, but that's not a bad thing. I'm making an exception to my hatred of Archetype+ because Fighter deserves every inch he can get. I still don't think it matches up to a Warlord, but it does a good job of shoring up several of the Fighters problems. Warriors determination and several Grit features are god sends. I like it, but it's probably gonna have some crazy DPR since it keeps Weapon Training. I don't care enough to run a comparison though.

It will have some high damage numbers but it will need those to stay competitive with full initiators. The numbers are more static than an initiator but don't get as high. Higher average damage - lower ceiling.

Insain Dragoon wrote:


The Omen Rider:
Accursed Will+Maneuvers+Mounted combat= Way too much damage for the intended purpose of the class. It's already a problem that Maneuvers work on Mounted charges and this is compounded in the Omen Rider.

I've played in a campaign where I was a Ranger riding a Hippogryph doing Mounted Lance Charges and at level 10 the Omen Rider can easily outdamage that...

I'll look into it and run some checks of my own. Honestly - mounted combat of any kind with maneuvers runs into this problem because mounted combat's blanket multipliers. Thanks!

-X


My biggest concern is Ride By Attack proccing Ethereal Rider and having a higher uptime than expected on small Harbingers and even medium harbingers.

Oftentimes it's overlooked how dangerous a small mounted charger is, but they're able to be used in smaller and more enclosed spaces than medium sized ones. Depending on room or hallway size it's very easy to get at least 20 ft of movement per round via the Ride By Attack+Mounted charge combo while using a flying Pony.

The other concern for mounted charges is more a problem with the system in general and I know it's on your list. Though Accursed Will granting intX3 to damage on mounted charges may be a bit too much free damage for what's supposed to be a "support."

Base Harby generally has to devote maneuvers known and readied in order to contribute to the damage race meeningfully, but the Omen Rider doesn't need a single Primal Fury or Piercing thunder maneuver to outdamage a lot of Harbingers.


Myrmidon wrote:
Maneuvers Known (Ex): A myrmidon begins her career with knowledge of three martial maneuvers. At level 1 she can ready all three of her starting maneuvers, but as she advances in level she will have to choose which maneuvers she readies (see maneuvers readied).

This does not match with the table, as the table says you start with 4 maneuvers known.

Also, why does the Myrmidon get new maneuvers known on even levels, when it is also even levels they are allowed to retrain maneuvers? In addition, they get access to higher level maneuvers on odd levels, but no new maneuvers or ability to retrain so that they can use this better access.


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So...

We're doing an AMA.

Questions will start being answered in an hour or two.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Prince of Knives wrote:

So...

We're doing an AMA.

Questions will start being answered in an hour or two.

Saw a few people asked about Akashic Mysteries, guess that means I'm up for an AMA next. Might be fun.... Or crushingly disappointing when no one shows up ;P


You just need a hype man Ssalarn!


Ssalarn wrote:
Saw a few people asked about Akashic Mysteries, guess that means I'm up for an AMA next. Might be fun.... Or crushingly disappointing when no one shows up ;P

Sounds like I'll need to get a reddit account.

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Milo v3 wrote:
Ssalarn wrote:
Saw a few people asked about Akashic Mysteries, guess that means I'm up for an AMA next. Might be fun.... Or crushingly disappointing when no one shows up ;P
Sounds like I'll need to get a reddit account.

I'm looking into setting it up right now, planning on maybe doing next Friday, the 5th, at 6pm PST.


Hey, all. First let me say I love the work you've done on all the Path of War products so far.

I'm building a Gunsmoke Mystic at level 7, currently as a proof of concept, but it may get used in a one-shot campaign soon. Seems pretty reasonable so far, although Mystic Artifice worries my friends and I - bypassing spell requirements with a skill check on the skill you're already using to craft seems silly. It doesn't take much work at this level to practically guarantee success on the Mystic Artifice check.

Also, since ErrantX shut down the version 1 Mystic, I can't see any of the new feats that were on that document. I'd be especially interested in a feat that could speed up my Animus production to 2/round; I must have about 8 different class features that use it before I even take Elemental Flux maneuvers, usually as part of an attack action.

Oh, and please tell me that "Magic Bullet Theory" is just the playtest name for that class feature. It's a good joke, but...


Does ammo from Magic Bullet Theory persist after encounter is over and mystic no longer have animus? Does it work with revolvers and modern firearms with clips?


avatarjk137 wrote:

Hey, all. First let me say I love the work you've done on all the Path of War products so far.

I'm building a Gunsmoke Mystic at level 7, currently as a proof of concept, but it may get used in a one-shot campaign soon. Seems pretty reasonable so far, although Mystic Artifice worries my friends and I - bypassing spell requirements with a skill check on the skill you're already using to craft seems silly. It doesn't take much work at this level to practically guarantee success on the Mystic Artifice check.

Also, since ErrantX shut down the version 1 Mystic, I can't see any of the new feats that were on that document. I'd be especially interested in a feat that could speed up my Animus production to 2/round; I must have about 8 different class features that use it before I even take Elemental Flux maneuvers, usually as part of an attack action.

Oh, and please tell me that "Magic Bullet Theory" is just the playtest name for that class feature. It's a good joke, but...

Any spellcaster can make an item with the right Item Creation feat and a skill check. That's always been the case. Mystic Artifice lets you fake being a caster so you can take the Item Creation feat in the first place.

I shut down the original mystic because it's redundant and no longer relevant. The feats in that doc were moved into the main feat document - those that were relevant anyway. Increasing animus production means using maneuvers! But that's a possible. This is the first time anyone's mentioned to me that they're running out of animus to the point where they need to produce more free animus per round.

Who doesn't like a good pun?

Nyaa wrote:
Does ammo from Magic Bullet Theory persist after encounter is over and mystic no longer have animus? Does it work with revolvers and modern firearms with clips?

No it doesn't, and I cleared up the wording from multiple barrels to barrels and chambers. One in the same in this case. It works with all of the above - just one animus per bullet. It's not necessarily supposed to be a "every shot every time" ability, but more of a "I don't have time to reload or am out of ammo" ability.

-X


Yes! Myrmidon's table looks much better now. Thank you.

Dark Archive

Is there a class that has access to Black Seraph and Silver Cane yet?

If not, I was thinking it could have a yin and yang style or a dual nature to justify having both Disciplines. I was thinking that it should have either the Warder or Warlord's progression for Maneuvers known and readied. I guess it would depend on the other class features to help decide which one to use. Combing this with abilities similar to the Magus, Warpriest, Paladin, Aegis, or Soulknife weapon and/or armor enhancing techniques would make for a fun class. Maybe make those the only to Disciplines the class gets maneuvers from and make it reliant on and able to use more Stances.

Then again, maybe I just need to go to bed.

Dark Archive

Well, Discordant Crusader Zealot is currently the only Initiator that gets both natively, and it even has a mechanic that lets you use either the Silver Crane stuff as an Evil character or the Black Seraph stuff as a Good character without fear of having your alignment change on you, so it's probably the most solid bet for that kind of character.

In theory you can Martial Tradition/Unorthodox Method to get one or both.

Dark Archive

Seranov wrote:

Well, Discordant Crusader Zealot is currently the only Initiator that gets both natively, and it even has a mechanic that lets you use either the Silver Crane stuff as an Evil character or the Black Seraph stuff as a Good character without fear of having your alignment change on you, so it's probably the most solid bet for that kind of character.

In theory you can Martial Tradition/Unorthodox Method to get one or both.

Where can I find the Discordant Crusader Zealot? I only have The Path of War pdf and the only classes in there are Stalker, Warder, and Warlord.


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DragoDorn wrote:
Seranov wrote:

Well, Discordant Crusader Zealot is currently the only Initiator that gets both natively, and it even has a mechanic that lets you use either the Silver Crane stuff as an Evil character or the Black Seraph stuff as a Good character without fear of having your alignment change on you, so it's probably the most solid bet for that kind of character.

In theory you can Martial Tradition/Unorthodox Method to get one or both.

Where can I find the Discordant Crusader Zealot? I only have The Path of War pdf and the only classes in there are Stalker, Warder, and Warlord.

It's currently a bit, ah, offline. Zealot is in playtesting, or it was - it's being reworked, top to bottom, and its archetypes need to be adjusted to remain compatible.


Quote:

Distorted Clock

Riven Hourglass (Stance)
Level: 1
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance

Magic is a fickle thing, influenced by time, and wanes in power as the sands glitter through the hourglass of existence. You halt this progression within yourself, sustaining abilities that would normally only last a few minutes, or rending a harmful effect to mere moments. While in this stance, you receive a +2 bonus to saving throws vs all non-instantaneous effects. This stance effects the durations of psionic powers, psi-like abilities, spells, and spell-like abilities on you. This stance possesses two modes with which it distorts time - either stretching it or compressing it. You may only be in one mode at a time, and you choose which mode you are in when initiating this stance (changing modes requires reassuming the stance). Changing stances automatically ends its effects on you. In stretch distortion mode, you make a save each round against the effect with an increasing +2 bonus every round; until you fail the save or voluntarily end the effect, the duration does not expire or decrease while you maintain this stance. In compressed distortion mode, you make a save each round against the effect with an increasing -2 penalty every round for negative effects upon you, each successful save reducing the effect's duration by 1 additional round. If you fail in either case, the duration resumes as normal from there and the stance's effect on it ends.

Possible wording fix and nerf on Distorted Clock.

Discuss!

-X


What is the DC of the saving throws?


Lirya wrote:
What is the DC of the saving throws?

The DC is the DC of the effect. Even spells like Haste and Bull's Strength have a saving throw on them, it's just harmless. You'd have to make that saving throw.

Alternately, I was thinking of assigning a DC 20 + level of the effect Autohypnosis check in place of using saving throws. Opinion on that?

-X


If you are playing a gish, then your personal buffs (like Shield) don't have any saving throws.

It is also interesting that if your Wizard has high int/selects feats like spell focus, will make it more difficult for you to keep his buffs up.

Making saving throws to keep/get rid of spells will keep the effect closer to the middle of the RNG every level. While a skill check will be difficult to make at 1st level, but can easily be boosted by a +15 item to be auto made every round at higher levels (assuming you care to invest in the effect).

Currently, I think I would ignore Autohypnosis (place 0 ranks in it) if I swapped in Riven Hourglass using a trait or a tradition.

In general, on a martial initiator I personally prefer using a stance with an effect of its own instead of extending buffs or reducing the duration of debuffs. Even in its previous state, where it automatically extended buffs and halved the duration of debuffs (but only while you were in the stance), I would prefer other stances. As in my group, most spells either last the whole dungeon or they last a single combat. And even if it could cause a single spell to last an extra combat, an equivalent level stance usually gives a slightly better benefit which stacks with the buff.

Also, I don't find it really clear from the text how the stance interacts with multiple active buffs or debuffs at the same time. I think it only affects one spell/spell-like at the time.

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