half giants and over sized weapons

[fel_horfrost]

Could a half giant wield a bastard sword sized for a huge sized creature?
I of course realize that it would require the exotic weapon proficiency bastard sword and taking a size penalty to attack rolls but wow that's a sword.
This is the ability in question
Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for a Combat Maneuver Bonus or Combat Maneuver Defense (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature's special attacks based on size (such as grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefts of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category.

So what do you guys think?

[Antariuk]

By the rules, absolutely.
The half-giant skips one size category when determining the penalties from the bastard sword being two sizes larger then he is. If he casts enlarge on himself (or someone else does), he could wield a gargantuan bastard sword with the same penalties, or take no penalties from wielding the huge sized sword (at least, by the rules).

Note that Exotic Weapon Proficiency is only required to wield the bastard sword one-handed, if you go two-handed (which, as a half-giant, you probably want to do) it acts like any other martial weapon.

[Kazaan]

No. Note the exact wording of the ability:

"A half-giant can use weapons designated for a creature one size larger without penalty." So if the half-giant is Medium, he can use weapons designed for Large creatures without penalty; meaning no attack penalty and no changed in effort to wield (longsword is still 1-h, greatsword is still 2-h, etc). But it says nothing for what happens beyond that; for weapons designed for creatures two sizes larger. In effect, they don't "shift" all the categories down by one so a Huge weapon is still treated as a Huge weapon meaning it gets two effort increases and takes -4 attack penalty.

So, whereas an ordinary medium creature could wield a medium longsword as a 1-h, a large longsword as a 2-h with -2 to attack, and a huge longsword is unwieldable, a half-giant wields the medium as a 1-h, the large also as a 1-h with no penalty, but the huge is still unwieldable. So you're still limited to a light huge weapon and still suffer -4 (I'd suggest going with an Aklys if you want this), even as a half-giant.

[golem101]

Kazaan wrote:

No. Note the exact wording of the ability:

"A half-giant can use weapons designated for a creature one size larger without penalty." So if the half-giant is Medium, he can use weapons designed for Large creatures without penalty; meaning no attack penalty and no changed in effort to wield (longsword is still 1-h, greatsword is still 2-h, etc). But it says nothing for what happens beyond that; for weapons designed for creatures two sizes larger. In effect, they don't "shift" all the categories down by one so a Huge weapon is still treated as a Huge weapon meaning it gets two effort increases and takes -4 attack penalty.

So, whereas an ordinary medium creature could wield a medium longsword as a 1-h, a large longsword as a 2-h with -2 to attack, and a huge longsword is unwieldable, a half-giant wields the medium as a 1-h, the large also as a 1-h with no penalty, but the huge is still unwieldable. So you're still limited to a light huge weapon and still suffer -4 (I'd suggest going with an Aklys if you want this), even as a half-giant.

Yup. Well put.

[Scott Wilhelm]

To begin with, we are talking Half-Giant, which is a race in Psionics Unleashed, which is not PFS Legal, and that means this is a homespun game. Ask your DM.

Kazaan is technically correct: a medium sized Bastard Sword is a 2 handed martial weapon and a 1 handed exotic weapon. A the Powerful Build Racial Trait does not give Half-Giants the ability to wield medium sized bastard swords 1 handed as martial weapons.

But it does give Half Giants the ability to wield large long swords as martial weapons with no penalty, and a large long sword does 2d6 damage as opposed a medium sized bastard swords' 1d10, so that's even better.

Better Still, as a Half-Giant, you might take Thunder and Fang Use a large Klar and a large Earthbreaker. Upsizing the Klar makes it do 1d8. Upsizing the Earthbreaker makes it do 3d6. Put the Bashing Enchantment on the Klar, so it will do 3d6, too. Get your 2 Weapon Feat by taking 2 levels in Ranger, and you have the Ranger Spell List. Get a Wand of Lead Blades, so you can size up the Earthbreaker to 4d6. Get Shield Slam, Great Bull Rush, Combat Reflexes and Paired Opportunist.

They will be afraid. They will be right to fear you.

[the David]

Wow. I never got further than a Half-Giant barbarian 1/psychic warrior 1 with a greatsword. He could use his psionic focus to manifest Expand, and then add rage. When doing that he had a +10 to hit and he did 4d6+12 damage.

Edit: You know. Don't ever use that idea. He was just meant to be used in a one-shot, and it doesn't end well if the GM knows about Murderous Command.

[fel_horfrost]

I was thinking abyssal bloodrager and a impact bastard sword blooded arcane strike & the vital strike chain and furious finish for a large final attack.

[Antariuk]

Kazaan wrote:

No. Note the exact wording of the ability:

"A half-giant can use weapons designated for a creature one size larger without penalty." So if the half-giant is Medium, he can use weapons designed for Large creatures without penalty; meaning no attack penalty and no changed in effort to wield (longsword is still 1-h, greatsword is still 2-h, etc). But it says nothing for what happens beyond that; for weapons designed for creatures two sizes larger. In effect, they don't "shift" all the categories down by one so a Huge weapon is still treated as a Huge weapon meaning it gets two effort increases and takes -4 attack penalty.

So, whereas an ordinary medium creature could wield a medium longsword as a 1-h, a large longsword as a 2-h with -2 to attack, and a huge longsword is unwieldable, a half-giant wields the medium as a 1-h, the large also as a 1-h with no penalty, but the huge is still unwieldable. So you're still limited to a light huge weapon and still suffer -4 (I'd suggest going with an Aklys if you want this), even as a half-giant.

So you really say the ability is not inclusive? That's like saying you can never move faster than 20 ft. in heavy armor because the armor and shields table says so. I am not saying it wouldn't be a bit ridiculous for a character to carry around a sword of that size - let alone maneuver in tight spaces - but still.

But if you rule it like that, the haf-giant is still able to wield a huge bastard sword when enlarged, since the racial writeup specifically calls out effects that change size category.

[Kazaan]

Antariuk wrote:

So you really say the ability is not inclusive? That's like saying you can never move faster than 20 ft. in heavy armor because the armor and shields table says so. I am not saying it wouldn't be a bit ridiculous for a character to carry around a sword of that size - let alone maneuver in tight spaces - but still.

But if you rule it like that, the haf-giant is still able to wield a huge bastard sword when enlarged, since the racial writeup specifically calls out effects that change size category.

The text that refers to the table states that it is a reduction to your speed. That doesn't mean that normal speed mechanics such as bonuses, double-moves, running, etc. cease to apply. But the language for the Powerful Build ability is straight-forward; it only applies to weapons one size larger than you. Now, if it said all weapons are treated as one size category smaller, by contrast, then it would be very different. But, as it stands, it is the same as the Redcap and Tiefling alternate physical traits that do the same thing; it only applies to one size category of weapons and those above that category use their normal calculations so you "jump up" two steps going from the large weapon to the huge weapons just as if you had gone from medium to huge.

Regarding Enlarge Person, the weapon enlarges with him. So if he's holding the huge BS, it will enlarge to a Gargantuan and would still be out of his wielding range. He'd have to drop it and then retrieve after he enlarges so that it stays Huge while he enlarges to Large and, consequently, can wield Huge weapons as if they were Large weapons. But if you're going to bother with that, you might as well get yourself a huge Greatsword instead.