Secret Signs and does not compute....

[Ughbash]

OK, by RAW if you cast a stilled silent spell with no components there is not penalty to recognizing it and everyone gets a normal roll. Oh the spell caster (or spell like ability user) over there is casting Glib, don''t belive anythign he says until it wears off.

This has been explained as you see the actual magic of the spell or something....

Secret Signs gives you the ability that if you cast a somatic only spell they must make a perception check vs your slight of hand to notice spell casting.... How is this easier then a stilled spell. In fact stilling a spell would make it so it would be easier to spot your casting.....

Does not compute.

Full disclosure I am of the opinion (even though it has been declared invald) that a Stilled, Silent, No Material spell should not be obvious to every Tom Dick and Harry who happens to be in sight.

IMHO just as Quickening a spell means it no longer provokes, spells with still silent and no material should not be seen, especially automatically.

[SlimGauge]

That's fine, as a house rule. But since you're in the RULES forum, we're going to tell you that there is NO rule making it more difficult to identify a spell cast with Still Spell, Silent Spell and Eschew Materials.

Read what Jason Bulmahn said about it or do your own search. The search engine is your friend !

[Magicdealer]

This isn't really a rules question but -- I'd go with the feat granting you the ability to conceal the normal obvious usage of magic.

For what it's worth, I think if spellcasters could cast whatever they wanted and be able to use stealth to conceal it, it would be significantly unbalancing to the game world. And it's not like caster's aren't pretty unbalancing to it already :D

[Claxon]

I'm with Slim Guage. Sorry, but it just doesn't work.

The purpose of still spell is to allow you to cast a spell when your hands are bound. Not so you can hide your casting.

I also agree with Magic Dealer that allowing people to completely conceal spell casting would greatly unbalance magic, further beyond what it already is and have even greater in game complications.

[Ughbash]

But my point is that this feat DOES allow you to fully conceal spell casting (ar at leats require a roll) without even adding 1 to the spell level.

So if you keep your Sleight of hand maxxed, you can conceal it without having to raise the spell level by 1.

[Ughbash]

SlimGauge wrote:

That's fine, as a house rule. But since you're in the RULES forum, we're going to tell you that there is NO rule making it more difficult to identify a spell cast with Still Spell, Silent Spell and Eschew Materials.

Read what Jason Bulmahn said about it or do your own search. The search engine is your friend !

Slim thank you for the link.

It was interesting what was posted a little farther down:

What Jason also posted on facebbok (so non officla but how he would rule in a home game

"The rules are silent on this issue, meaning that it is really up to your GM. I would, personally, rule that each missing component adds +4 to the DC to identify the spell. There are, after all some tell tale markers, even if all of the components are removed. If they are all removed, I might rule it impossible to ID before the effect occurs, but it depends on the circumstances."

Honestly looks perfectly good to me and will mention his post to our group and see how they feel about it as a HOUSE RULE.

[Ascalaphus]

It's a bit of a mess. There's no general rule about how noticeable spellcasting is, but Secret Signs gives us a specific case.

If Somatic is the only remaining spell component (after perhaps Silent and Eschew), then you can indeed make a spell completely stealthy.

[Kayerloth]

Part of the issue is it involves "Stealth and Perception" which is a bit of a muddle as well.

Why should Still and Silent effect Spellcraft at all? Why aren't the effects and modifiers, if any, based off of Perception i.e. "but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast, and this incurs the same penalties as a Perception skill check due to distance, poor conditions, and other factors."? Wouldn't (shouldn't) altered components fall into the 'other factors' category?

Why doesn't casting time explicitly alter the Spellcraft DC?
Okay so let's not worry about the difference between an action, full round and a 1 round casting time. But what about when it goes for 3 rounds or 10 minutes or you get the idea?