Problem Player?


Advice


I have a player in my RotRL campaign who has slowly been giving me more and more trouble as a GM and I'm not quite sure of the appropriate way to handle it.

From day one he's been fuzzy on his backstory and we have a group that is very roleplay-centric. I had to handhold him through the meager background he did eventually stick to but all that eventually became for him was even less than window-dressing. It all took a backseat to his desire to play a "young Han Solo" - someone who "doesn't take any crap from anyone". That sounds fine and all but it was his execution that was lacking. In game this translated to him causing much more party strife than was necessary, threatening the lives of important townsfolk for no reason at the most inopportune moments and being generally disruptive to the smooth flow of things.

Now, you might say that as a GM it's my job to roll with the punches but its become apparent to me that he simply doesn't care about the game as much as myself or my other players. For us its a serious endeavor that we've put hours or days into preparing and for him its a fun distraction on a Saturday night. That's fine and all but I'm beginning to sense a distinct feeling of discord amongst my other players. I've even had a couple players approach me saying they were getting sick of his antics and tendency to cause party-drama as they felt it was starting to distract from the story of the AP - something I feel as well. At last week's session he went the next step though from troublemaker to "lolimrandumb" when, after discovering the goblin dog exercise yard at Thistletop he released dozens of rabbits into the courtyard with a live and very spookable Shadowmist. When I asked him why on earth his character would do that he replied grinning "I don't know, lol."

That is literally what he said.

...

This was the tipping point for me. This was the moment when I knew he didn't really care the same way we did.

Now, you might ask why I haven't just asked him to leave?

He's a close friend of myself and all my other players and is currently living at my house while he finds his own place. That is what makes this tricky.

Anyway... long story and all... Advice?


Talk to him like an adult, and disinvite him from the next game. Doesn't matter where he lives.


Where the hell did he get the rabbits?

Talk to him. Make him understand that others are having less fun because he's doing what he's doing. Don't be aggressive or anything, calm and collected works the best. If you're not the kind of guy to have "the talk", have someone else from your group back you up. Note: only one other, otherwise it will seem like you gang up on him. Don't let someone else do it without you, either. Because if something goes south, you need to know exactly what everything is about, 2nd hand information is never as good as 1st hand.
He must accept that it's not a game just for him. I think most players know this, just that some don't realise that they're breaking it.

You should also ask him what he thinks of the game. If he thinks it's fun and would like to keep playing or if he really doesn't care that much. If you wants to play, find out what he wants from the game and adapt (After all, it's a game for everyone at the table. And while his single style may differe from the rest of your players' style, you can always find a way to get in a little of him in it as well). If he doesn't care too much, well there we go: easy problem, easy solution.

About backstory: It's not that important for every player to have this for their PC. However, as a DM, I know it can be hard to involve them in the plot if you have nothing to work from. But that's okay, you don't have to. Make sure that the player understands that. Some can just roll with being the faceless hero.


At the very least in character your player's characters probably wouldn't put up with this s!&@. So, in character they should leave that character behind. Out of character, you tell the player of the disruptive character to either play a more serious character or that he is no longer invited to join the game. It's as simple as that if he causing problems for you and the rest of the players.

Before you do this I suugest you talk to your other players and ask them how they feel about the actions taken by the disruptive character/player. If they are annoyed or upset by them then this course of action is really the only acceptable option.

As for how to deal with the fact that he is currently living with you and the awkwardness that it could create...don't host the sessions at your house if it is that much of a problem. Other than that...well life isn't easy.


Personally, I would take the narrative GM role here. Your job is to remain neutral. You provide information and conclusions of player’s actions. If the adventuring party is unhappy with his role in the group they can simply excuse his character and wish him luck. Same applies with the next character and the next. If things get bad enough, and he keeps making door knob guys, the group could decide that he himself is a problem, and excuse him from the table. If they decided to keep him in the group, then logical consequences to his actions are relevant. In all, the group gets to decided what kind of game / fun they want to have. Sometimes it is hard to get a read on someone and what they are looking to get out of the game. My personal table seems to be a fifty / fifty split. Half are murder hobos with the other half enjoying in-depth role playing.

I would start by asking each player what it is they enjoy most about pathfinder. Is it the combat, role playing, story etc. Then I would build from there. So fare it sounds like the rest of your players are role players. My guess is, he is not having fun. He may not enjoy that aspect of the game.


wait he said lol like it was a word


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SIGH

Give him the deck of many things, I bet you that he will be impulsive and try to draw a card away from the group, one of those cards is imprisonment so stack the deck against him.


Lamontius wrote:

wait he said lol like it was a word

Yes. Yes, he did.

As for everyone else - I really appreciate the advice. Another character is being rolled for the next session he can attend as the troublemaking one met an ultimely (or timely depending on your perception) death.

He wants to play a gunslithing catfolk paladin. I am looking forward to him playing a paladin and it should hopefully fix some of the problems. I'm wary of letting him play a catfolk, however, as he very rarely reads into anything and I'd rather not have it as an afterthought.

I think he cares about hanging out with us and having a good time but much less about the game. I've recommended a few times he at least skims the Core Rulebook we have lying around the house so he understands all of his class features as well as the bare rules of the game. Each time he has more or less refused and implied he just doesn't feel like it. I've explained that by knowing his own stuff and by knowing the rules he would help to speed things up on his turn a great deal but that didn't seem to sway him. I've given him other supplements in the past to read as well and he never seems to get around to it. So I'm really starting to think the issue is more that we have different ideas of what we want out of the game. He wants a night to relax with friends and the rest of us are looking for a more immersive gaming experience. I think that is the core of the discussion I will have with him.

Thoughts?


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Make him GM.


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Sounds good to me.

As a side note, if he's a problem player, you shouldn't let him play a paladin, the poster child for in-game disruption.


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giving a problem player an exotic race, firearms and one of the most morally-complicated and polarizing classes in the game should help solve the issue


Zhayne wrote:

Sounds good to me.

As a side note, if he's a problem player, you shouldn't let him play a paladin, the poster child for in-game disruption.

Think so? I was thinking it might help to curb the disruptive behavior by holding him strictly to being lawful good. But I see what you mean, now that you say it.

I guess I'll speak to him tonight and see how he takes it.


TheCleanHippie wrote:

[H]e replied grinning "I don't know, lol."

That is literally what he said.

You and him are playing different games. He wants a silly nonsensical game where randomness is permitted, and you want a serious game. This happens in every form of roleplaying. The players will be sitting around enjoying Tokyo Teas and White Russians when some dude jumps in, does absurd things, and then opens a portal to hell just to have something to do even at the derailing of the entire game.

Just tell him that you are looking for a serious game with serious characters who do serious things with serious personality and background reasons for doing such serious things.

Tell him you want a "Heart of Darkness" game instead of an "Excel Saga" game.


Well, he really needs to learn the rules, or at least those concerning his character. Or else he can't play. Though if he's new to TTRPGs, give him some time.

Also: If he wants to play a crazy character that does some chicken-s$%$ stuff, he needs to understand that that's what he's playing as. It's not "a funny guy" he's playing, it's a legitimately crazy guy who's tripping on the edge. Though this is very hard to do and shouldn't be attempted by just anybody (at least not by those who are most enthusiastic about it).

I got really tired of one of my players when he knew less about what feats his character had, and what they did, than I. We both started playing at the same time, the difference was that I read the rules and did my researched, he didn't even bother to level his character up between sessions. He was quite similar to the way you describe your player, tough my'n did the opposit when it came to in-game playing, and almost never did anything. To the point that I would have booted him, if it weren't for the fact that he sort of did it him self. Having him around only served as a distraction and a reliability for the game and logistically around it.

Shadow Lodge

Maybe you can kill him, i mean not deliberetely kill him, but doing silly things is 99% sure a recipe for a disaster just dont help his antics, he´ll kill himself. First talk to him explain him your game is serious and why is this and how your table like serious games.

His roplaying style is not wrong its jus the way he rolls, for instance i think he would make a fun person at my table albeit playing a fighter, that is. But also im not so serious at my table, but always neutral, so if he realeased a lof of rabbits for no reason i would be like what? oh ok i guess its time for enemies to attack?

Also who on earth says lol in real life?

Sovereign Court

Have a sit down with the player and let him know that what he has been doing has been disrupting the table. Let him know what it is that the group is wanting to do or gain out of playing there. He may decide to change to suit or he may say that isn't what he wants to play.

Give him a chance to mend his ways as I have seen someone like this change into a very decent roleplayer.

Grand Lodge

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Do not do anything passive-aggressive in game.

This will never end well.

Do not do it.

Talk to him, in person, outside of game.

Grand Lodge

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ElementalXX wrote:


Also who on earth says lol in real life?

I knew one person who did. Used practically nothing but internet slang/acronyms to express himself.

I had to tell him to talk normally to me, or not talk to me at all.

Shadow Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Do not do anything passive-aggressive in game.

This. Definitely this.

I do not know of anything that will turn a game into a giant flaming wreck better/faster than that.

Shadow Lodge

Emmanuel Nouvellon-Pugh wrote:
Give him the deck of many things, I bet you that he will be impulsive and try to draw a card away from the group, one of those cards is imprisonment so stack the deck against him.

While I don't condone this kind of thing to solve a behavioral issue normally, how hilarious would it be? At least play it out in your head - I certainly got a chuckle.


ElementalXX wrote:

Maybe you can kill him, i mean not deliberetely kill him, but doing silly things is 99% sure a recipe for a disaster just dont help his antics, he´ll kill himself. First talk to him explain him your game is serious and why is this and how your table like serious games.

His roplaying style is not wrong its jus the way he rolls, for instance i think he would make a fun person at my table albeit playing a fighter, that is. But also im not so serious at my table, but always neutral, so if he realeased a lof of rabbits for no reason i would be like what? oh ok i guess its time for enemies to attack?

Also who on earth says lol in real life?

I mean, his original character is already dead. Just via the way things turned out. No passive-aggressiveness or anything of the sort. Not 30 minutes had gone by in the session after the bunnies incident and his character was dead.

He was the party rogue and so was checking every door for traps even though he has the Trap Spotter talent. He got to a point where he'd do the check and just burst through the door anyway without even waiting for the results. And that obviously came back to bite him.

Didn't manage to talk to him one on one tonight but I did get a chance to ask him if he had put any work or thought at all about the new character and he said he hadn't but that being a "gunslinging Paladin was gonna be awesome." Also said something about wanting to ascend to godhood. Great.

Horizon Hunters

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Do not do anything passive-aggressive in game.

This will never end well.

Do not do it.

Talk to him, in person, outside of game.

This is the most concise message of correct advice here. It sucks when a player isn't jiving and they are close or important to you outside the game.

It is never okay to be passive aggressive about a disagreement like this, pathfinder related or not. It might be a tough situation, but talking to them and working out what you both want from the game and trying to make it work.

Whenever I start a game, I'm very open about what I'm looking for in the characters, and also the tone. That means I avoid most of these problems before they become long term

Grand Lodge

He sounds like a wacky physical comedy character, forcibly inserted into a live-action version of Schindler's List.

You have to let be known that there is no place for Scrappy-Doo, amongst the Spartans of 300.

If you are not dropping a turd in his cheerios, he shouldn't drop one in yours, no matter how funny he thinks it is.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

there is no place for Scrappy-Doo, amongst the Spartans of 300.

That's the best way to put it. Just make sure you really have a table full of spartans first.

I will run almost anything my players agree they want to run, and I don't mind running a game for a table full of spazz.
I'll even run a game thats 'the 300 spartans and the spazz' if the table is ok with it.
I'll even go so far as to say i'm mostly supportive of the idea that 'I dont think i'll like it but lets give it a try' and *then* decide...
But if spazz is not being enjoyed by the spartans then he needs to find a new concept or he's out.

Either he has some serious personal issues
Or he's testing your ability to improvise
Or he's trolling the game.

Only he knows which one for sure.

This is a group game. If the group likes it, then game on.

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