Cyclops Flash of Insight vs Swashbuckler's parry


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

So, Flash of Insight (Su)

Once per day as an immediate action, a cyclops can peer into an occluded visual spectrum of possible futures, gaining insight that allows it to select the exact result of one die roll before the roll is made. This effect can alter an action taken by the cyclops only, and cannot be applied to the rolls of others.

Vs a Swashbuckler's Parry.

The cyclops is going to change a roll to a 20 most of the time. Does the Parry ability overrule this even though it would normally auto-hit and threaten a crit? The text of the ability seems to imply that it should override all defences as he is peering into the future and picking out the success, but I'm not sure.


This same question just came up recently about rolling a nat 20 vs this ability. So far there is no clear answer. Many view a nat 20 as an "autowin", but some see it as still having a number value attached to it meaning it can be bypassed. I am assuming/hoping it will be answered in the FAQ.


Even a nat 20 can be parried by a swashbuckler, if the swashbuckler rolls really well and has huge bonuses to hit. It's just unlikely that that would happen.

Silver Crusade

Choon wrote:

So, Flash of Insight (Su)

Once per day as an immediate action, a cyclops can peer into an occluded visual spectrum of possible futures, gaining insight that allows it to select the exact result of one die roll before the roll is made. This effect can alter an action taken by the cyclops only, and cannot be applied to the rolls of others.

Vs a Swashbuckler's Parry.

The cyclops is going to change a roll to a 20 most of the time. Does the Parry ability overrule this even though it would normally auto-hit and threaten a crit? The text of the ability seems to imply that it should override all defences as he is peering into the future and picking out the success, but I'm not sure.

With Parry you still have the opportunity to roll that D20 and potentially beat the Cyclops' roll(even as a Nat 20). The Parry comes after the opposing creature's attack, thus denying the attack if the Swashbuckler succeeds. Is it likely to succeed? I seriously doubt it vs a Crit+That creature's mods.


I would say that a Swashbuckler could only parry a nat 20 with a nat 20 of his own.
Since the parry is an attack roll, it can still "autowin" and parry any attack regardless of the original roll.


I'm afraid I don't see the question.

The relevant text reads : " If [the swashbuckler's parry] result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses."

The attacking creature's result is a 20, more accurately a 20 plus bonuses, and if the swashbuckler can beat that, she wins.

If there were an ability that said "for every point by which you beat the defender's armor class, you do an additional +1 bonus hit point of damage," would you expect rolling a natural 20 to give you infinite damage? Or would you simply say "I needed to roll a 12, I rolled a 20, so I beat it by 8 and get +8 damage and a possible critical hit as well"?

Or if you consider 20 to be an autowin, why doesn't it autowin against miss chances? (Trick question, because it's not an autowin!)

The text of the cyclopes' ability suggest that he's picking out a possible future, but not necessarily a successful one. There may not be a successful future for the task he's looking at.


Orfamay Quest wrote:

I'm afraid I don't see the question.

The relevant text reads : " If [the swashbuckler's parry] result is greater than the attacking creature's result, the creature's attack automatically misses."

The attacking creature's result is a 20, more accurately a 20 plus bonuses, and if the swashbuckler can beat that, she wins.

If there were an ability that said "for every point by which you beat the defender's armor class, you do an additional +1 bonus hit point of damage," would you expect rolling a natural 20 to give you infinite damage? Or would you simply say "I needed to roll a 12, I rolled a 20, so I beat it by 8 and get +8 damage and a possible critical hit as well"?

Or if you consider 20 to be an autowin, why doesn't it autowin against miss chances? (Trick question, because it's not an autowin!)

The text of the cyclopes' ability suggest that he's picking out a possible future, but not necessarily a successful one. There may not be a successful future for the task he's looking at.

Miss chances don't work like AC so people understand why that fails, but AC and attack rolls are in directly opposed and very similar. That is why the autowin comes into play. You are comparing a defense designed to bypass your attack roll to one to one designed to force the attack roll to overcome. With misschance the attack roll has no bearing on it, no matter if you have a +1 or +1000 to your attack roll modifier.

Just to be clear I am just explaining the lack of correlation.


This is very similar to someone using crane wing while in total defense to block what would otherwise be a successful hit. IMO both these abilities can indeed negate a hit from a nat 20 roll.

The nat 20 roll simply means, I don't care what your AC is, I made a successful attack. Other abilities or effects can still negate that though - miss chance, parry, crane wing, and possibly other abilities.

In Harm's Way likewise could divert the attack to a different target.

All of these other abilities alter the outcome of a successful attack after the success has been determined.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Compare this to something like Snake Style, which sets your AC at your sense motive roll. In this situation it doesn't matter what your AC is, a nat 20 will hit any AC.

For parry, its not about AC its about higher rolls. In this case, because a natural 20 is a:

A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit (see the attack action).

So it is a hit, something that a successful parry can turn into a miss.


The Cyclops, quite literally, didn't see it coming.


Parry seems to directly compare the result of their roll vs the result of your roll. Unlike actual attack rolls vs AC, there is no automatic failure or success. I would say yes, you can parry a natural 20, if you still manage to beat the roll.

Scarab Sages

Thanks for the insights and responces!

At my table we decided that the swashbuckler could parry as well.

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