Shadow Strike vs. Displacement


Rules Questions

Sovereign Court

Surprisingly, searching for this topic didn't net any results. It didn't even come up during this recent lengthy discussion on Precision Damage and Concealment.

Does the Shadow Strike feat allow you to deal precision damage against a target under the effects of Displacement?

Shadow Strike states that "You can deal precision damage, such as sneak attack damage, against targets with concealment (but not total concealment)."

Displacement states that "The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. Unlike actual total concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally."

I'm wondering if, since Displacement isn't actual total concealment, whether Shadow Strike would work or not.

I ask because my Swashbuckler just reached 4th level, and I'm thinking of grabbing Shadow Strike as my bonus Combat Feat. But if Shadow Strike only helps you against mundane 20% concealment effects, I won't bother with it.

Thoughts?


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Displacement is not concealment at all. Displacement grants a miss chance AS IF there was total concealment, but that is all. It does not grant any of the other benefits of concealment, total or otherwise. Since it is not concealment, Shadow Strike is of no use.

If Shadow Strike had instead said "allows you to negate a miss chance from whatever source", then you'd have something.

Scarab Sages

Displacement is the least of your worries. Without Shadow Strike, dim light negates precision damage, as does Obscuring Mist or any number of other effects.


SlimGauge wrote:

Displacement is not concealment at all. Displacement grants a miss chance AS IF there was total concealment, but that is all. It does not grant any of the other benefits of concealment, total or otherwise. Since it is not concealment, Shadow Strike is of no use.

If Shadow Strike had instead said "allows you to negate a miss chance from whatever source", then you'd have something.

I disagree. If all Displacement was supposed to give was a 50% miss chance, they could of said that. But instead they said it works as total concealment. The only reason to say that is to have the same things that affect total concealment to also affect displacement.

Shadow Strike won't help against displacement (as it is total concealment). It would work against blur, however, as that only grants concealment not total concealment.


Quote:
displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally

If you can target the creature normally you can deal precision damage normally...


Loengrin wrote:
Quote:
displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally
If you can target the creature normally you can deal precision damage normally...

That just means you don't have to guess which square the target is in, like you normally have to do with total concealment.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Jeraa wrote:
I disagree. If all Displacement was supposed to give was a 50% miss chance, they could of said that. But instead they said it works as total concealment. The only reason to say that is to have the same things that affect total concealment to also affect displacement.

I will turn that same argument back on you. If displacement was supposed to grant all the effects of concealment except the prevention of targeting, they would have said "grants total concealment, but can be targeted".

I think we will have to agree to disagree.

edit: fixed broken close quote


Mmmh I think you're right, since the target is slightly elsewhere from his looking position you try to do precision damage but because of the shifting in position you miss your precision...


SlimGauge wrote:
I will turn that same argument back on you. If displacement was supposed to grant all the effects of concealment except the prevention of targeting, they would have said "grants total concealment, but can be targeted".

But it does say that.

"Grants total concealment"

Quote:
The subject of this spell appears to be about 2 feet away from its true location. The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. Unlike actual total concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally. True seeing reveals its true location and negates the miss chance.

"but can be targeted"

Quote:
The subject of this spell appears to be about 2 feet away from its true location. The creature benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment. Unlike actual total concealment, displacement does not prevent enemies from targeting the creature normally. True seeing reveals its true location and negates the miss chance.


I think SlimGauge's argument is that they wouldn't have said "benefits from a 50% miss chance as if it had total concealment". They'd have said "has total concealment". It's more concise and less ambiguous.


In my experience, 20% concealment is far more common unless you tend to explore in total darkness. But that's only if the GM remembers to enforce lighting rules.

Sovereign Court

Alrighty, so the answer is either...

No, because Displacement isn't concealment at all, it's just a miss chance, or...

No, because Displacement is "treated as" total concealment, which Shadow Strike cannot overcome.

?


Azara Emberkin wrote:

Alrighty, so the answer is either...

No, because Displacement isn't concealment at all, it's just a miss chance, or...

No, because Displacement is "treated as" total concealment, which Shadow Strike cannot overcome.

?

Pretty much. Either way it goes, Shadow Strike does not help against Displacement.

Sovereign Court

Alrighty. Thanks everyone!


I think it works, assuming you can get past the miss chance. Sneak attack however would still be shut down since it has verbage about no SA if you can't see the target clearly, and miss chance no matter if it is concealment or not is still not allowing you to see the target clearly.

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