Does disrupt undead work on a haunt?


Rules Questions


Is a haunt a valid target for disrupt undead?

Grand Lodge

Conditionally, possibly. ;)

Positive: disrupt undead is a ray of positive energy, so that is a yes.
Negative: As a ray spell, it requires a target, and it also specifies the target as an undead creature.

A haunt, usually, won't be anything targetable, and may not qualify as a creature.

Then again, would disrupt undead harm a living creature with negative energy affinity, like a standard dhampyr?

Grand Lodge

kinevon wrote:

Conditionally, possibly. ;)

Positive: disrupt undead is a ray of positive energy, so that is a yes.
Negative: As a ray spell, it requires a target, and it also specifies the target as an undead creature.

A haunt, usually, won't be anything targetable, and may not qualify as a creature.

Then again, would disrupt undead harm a living creature with negative energy affinity, like a standard dhampyr?

On the one hand, you can target haunts as though they had AC 10. On the other, I'm pretty sure haunts aren't creatures, so I don't think Disrupt Undead would work because it only works on undead creatures.


Haunts wrote:
...a haunt never gains a Will save to lessen the damage done by such effects, and attacks that require a successful attack roll to work must strike AC 10 in order to affect the haunt and not merely the physical structure it inhabits).

You can see haunts with detect undead or as soon as they manifest in the surprise round. So you can attack them with positive energy. Everything with an attack roll (melee and ranged) can hit a haunt with AC 10.

The fluff text from 'Disrupt Undead' says 'undead creature' but the spell itself is a ray and not limited on targeting creatures. Basically a haunt is a undead phenomenon that can be fought like a creature.

Magic - Ray wrote:
Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don't have to see the creature you're trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature at which you're aiming.

So the answer should be : Yes you can use DU against a haunt.

Regarding dhampirs and DU:

Dhampir wrote:
Negative Energy Affinity: Though a living creature, a dhampir reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead—positive energy harms it, while negative energy heals it.


Eridan wrote:


Regarding dhampirs and DU:
Dhampir wrote:
Negative Energy Affinity: Though a living creature, a dhampir reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead—positive energy harms it, while negative energy heals it.

In short: Yes, it hurts them.

@OP: Haunts, too are damaged by disrupt undead.

Grand Lodge

Eridan wrote:


The fluff text from 'Disrupt Undead' says 'undead creature' but the spell itself is a ray and not limited on targeting creatures. Basically a haunt is a undead phenomenon that can be fought like a creature.

That's rules text, not fluff text.

Grand Lodge

Jeff Merola wrote:
Eridan wrote:


The fluff text from 'Disrupt Undead' says 'undead creature' but the spell itself is a ray and not limited on targeting creatures. Basically a haunt is a undead phenomenon that can be fought like a creature.
That's rules text, not fluff text.

Which is also why I asked about negative energy affinity, since the creature with it is not necessarily undead, but could be living, like a dhampyr...


kinevon wrote:
Jeff Merola wrote:
Eridan wrote:


The fluff text from 'Disrupt Undead' says 'undead creature' but the spell itself is a ray and not limited on targeting creatures. Basically a haunt is a undead phenomenon that can be fought like a creature.
That's rules text, not fluff text.
Which is also why I asked about negative energy affinity, since the creature with it is not necessarily undead, but could be living, like a dhampyr...

But they are treated like undead for positive energy.


Obviously the PF Haunt rules were written after the Core Rulebook so the text of disrupt undead should be superseded by anything in the haunt rules that suggests that they are vulnerable to it.

PRD wrote:
positive energy applied to the haunt (via channeled energy, cure spells, and the like) can damage the haunt's hit points...

The use of the phrase "and the like" suggests to me that disrupt undead would work.

Do you guys agree?


Peet wrote:

Obviously the PF Haunt rules were written after the Core Rulebook so the text of disrupt undead should be superseded by anything in the haunt rules that suggests that they are vulnerable to it.

PRD wrote:
positive energy applied to the haunt (via channeled energy, cure spells, and the like) can damage the haunt's hit points...

The use of the phrase "and the like" suggests to me that disrupt undead would work.

Do you guys agree?

Yes

Silver Crusade

I would say yes for one simple reason.

If there is only one way to try and deal with a problem / trap.....in my opinion that is the fault of a lazy writer/game designer.

in my opinion as GM's we should be open to creative solutions....so if by read as written text the only way to deal with a haunt is through channeling positive energy......well If my players come up with a creative solution.....I'll allow it.

So yes, I would allow Disrupt Undead to work on a haunt.

Bleh its 4:30 AM..what am I doing on these message boards?

Liberty's Edge

PRD wrote:

Haunts

The distinction between a trap and an undead creature blurs when you introduce a haunt—a hazardous region created by unquiet spirits that react violently to the presence of the living.
....
Detect undead or detect alignment spells of the appropriate type allow an observer a chance to notice a haunt even before it manifests (allowing that character the appropriate check to notice the haunt, but at a –4 penalty).
...
On the surprise round in which a haunt manifests, positive energy applied to the haunt (via channeled energy, cure spells, and the like) can damage the haunt's hit points (a haunt never gains a Will save to lessen the damage done by such effects, and attacks that require a successful attack roll to work must strike AC 10 in order to affect the haunt and not merely the physical structure it inhabits).

PRD wrote:


A good cleric (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures.
PRD wrote:


Detect Undead
...
You can detect the aura that surrounds undead creatures.
PRD wrote:


Cure Light Wounds
Target creature touched

I think the different citations show how a haunt is influenced by effects that normally target only undead creatures.

The original fluff about the haunts (from Rule of fear I think, or some other product linked to the Carrion Crown AP) was that the haunts are degraded ghost and specters that have lost their sense of individuality but can still affect the area round them.

Edit: It is meant to be a
Yes!
but I am verbose ;-)

Sovereign Court

Peet wrote:

Obviously the PF Haunt rules were written after the Core Rulebook so the text of disrupt undead should be superseded by anything in the haunt rules that suggests that they are vulnerable to it.

PRD wrote:
positive energy applied to the haunt (via channeled energy, cure spells, and the like) can damage the haunt's hit points...

The use of the phrase "and the like" suggests to me that disrupt undead would work.

Do you guys agree?

Yes.

Otherwise we'd either have to start amending core spells every time a supplement introduces a new mechanic, or accept that increasingly many things in the rules don't work as you would expect them to.

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