Gestalting 9th Level Caster


Advice


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

So, I'm bored, and I feel like making a 9th level caster using gestalting mechanics. I want to be primarily casting, so while you can gestalt with a non-9th level caster I still want to primarily be sitting in the back raining down crowd control. Like, i'm thinking about a Summoner(Shadow Caller)/Sorcerer(Shadow bloodline), or a Wizard/Investigator. there's also the possibility of a wizard/arcanist...

now, why? you may ask, am I asking for possible OP gestalting options, because my current PC might be dead next session due to racism (yes it is IC, don't worry, and I expected it :P) and I sort of want to just be amazing from the get go.

also, I sort of want more theory crafting than builds.

Scarab Sages

Well it isn't a 9th lvl caster, but I would go with a Summoner(Master Summoner)/ Bard(Thundercaller). Use your standards for buffing and summoning hordes of monsters, your move actions for activating Inspire Courage when nothing is within 50' and unleashing a hail of thunder on anything dumb enough to come close. Pump charisma through the roof for maximum times/day and higher DCs on stunning enemies.

That or an Aasimar Lunar Oracle(with the Blackened curse)/Elemental (cold) Sorcerer. Use the Aasimar FCB to get a super animal companion, and sit back blasting all the rime spells you can imagine. With resist 15 cold from Celestial Companion, good reflex save, and evasion (improved next level), having your companion in the AoEs might not be total suicide. Plus with the Prophetic Armor revelation you can get really SAD if all you want to do is cast (you have the spells/day for it).


What do you want to do, besides be "a wizard, harry"?

I mean, not to spew "role-play not roll-play" all over your nice clean topic but when gestalting comes into play I have choice paralysis. When I can do EVERYTHING I have trouble deciding to do anything without some sort of "oh that would be fun/cool/amusing to play" character concept as a guiding star.

Off the top of my head, Synthesist Summoner/Scarred Witch Doctor with all your evolutions focused on being hard to kill and more mobile. You become the caster tank who throws down spells like crazy and doesn't afraid of anything. You roll a sort of thing where the mask goes on, your eyes start to glow, and you become a giant magic-flinging monster that flies. Maybe go with a snake base, add hands and some Asian dragon flavor.

You'd be practically unkillable and have no fear of aggro, of course, the whole sliding con score and other synthesist "complications" and "rules questions" would be an issue.

Personally I still love my divine caster/arcane caster which graduates into monk/mystic theurge, since you get "Cast all the spells!" and have the nifty little monk abilities after level 5 or 6 which aid in survival. All favored saves and evasion? Yes please. Sure you have action economy concerns, but that can be solved by constantly casting spells when you MIGHT need them like you have casting tourettes. You can afford it, you're the chosen of the god(dess) of magic. You sweat magical energy.

And while we all know rogue sucks and all that, wizard who can ranged sneak-attack with hurty spells can be nice. Not to mention a fully magicked thief can basically steal anything. Some flavor of bard can replace rogue if you have no use for sneak attack, though ability scores weigh heavily in the choice of class/archetype selection, only so many points to spread around after all. Do it right and you'll be such a good thief you can steal your own class upgrades from your future self AND keep them from your past self's grubby mitts.

I don't even know the insanity of the ACG, so I'm leaving that aside for now.

So, what's most interesting to you? Calling down the thunder? Holding back the night? Having the biggest toolbox? Being harder to kill than a cockroach? Just being so pretty that everyone loves you? Being the most unsettling bastard at the table?

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Go Sorcerer|Oracle. It's like being a Mystic Theurge but awesome. Sorry for the generic answer, but that's not a whole lot to go on. :)


I actually really like Wizard/Investigator. Also Wizard (conj)/Alchemist has some nice synergy to it. You can buff and bomb and bf control to your heart's content.


Every time I look at the topic I see "gestating 9th level caster" and think, "ewww, is this one of those creepy summoners that 'births' it's eidolon?"


I know you're interested in all casting, but since you mentioned sitting back and area controlling, I thought that archers might fall into that context as well. I once built a PC with a level of Oracle with the Lore Mystery and Sidestep Secret revelation. It allowed him to use CHA for AC and Reflex saves. I then took levels of Zen Archer Monk. This allowed him to be an archer built on WIS and CHA and dump DEX. The only thing that suffered from it was initiative and CMD. I gave him the Lame Curse and worked the DEX dump into his backstory. It only requires 3 levels of ZAM, but if you want more, you should go up to at least 8. It would also benefit from 2 levels of Divine Hunter Paladin or 2-5 levels of Inquisitor.


Magus/Wizard or Summoner (Synthesist)/Sorcerer would be my go-to options. Sit back and spam spells... and then when somebody gets in your face, you break out the sword (and keep spamming spells) or you armor up and beat face.

The problem with double casting classes, in my mind, is that it leaves you without the flexibility of many gestalting characters. Sure, Wizard/Arcanist can deliver a truly obnoxious number of spells per day... but that's all they can do, and they have all the same problems of a standard Wizard, and it's not like they can deliver those spells any faster. Wizard/Magus? Well, now your defenses are better (Magus has a good Fort and Will save, and if you can't get your GM to let you have your other class' arcane spells work in the armors, swap to one of their archetypes that trades out the armor for another defense), and you still have more spells than the standard Wizard, though admittedly not as much as Wizard/Arcanist. And you can make use of a broader spell list. Wizard/Arcanist might largely forget about first level spells after a while. Wizard/Magus just fills them with Shocking Grasps and has a better backup plan. Wizard/Arcanist would probably try to avoid polymorphing themselves... Wizard/Magus has the BAB to mix it up as a dragon or what have you if need be.

The other interesting note is that you can get away with making use of prestige classes that don't grant full spellcasting levels. For example, I theorycrafted up a gestalt that looks like this:

Magus 1 [Kensai]/ Sorcerer 1 [Crossblooded: Draconic/Sage]
Magus 2/ Sorcerer 2
Magus 3/ Sorcerer 3
Magus 4/ Sorcerer 4
Magus 5/ Sorcerer 5
Magus 6/ Dragon Disciple 1
Magus 7/ Dragon Disciple 2
Magus 8/ Dragon Disciple 3
Magus 9/ Dragon Disciple 4
Sorcerer 6/ Dragon Disciple 5
Sorcerer 7/ Dragon Disciple 6
Magus 10/ Dragon Disciple 7
Magus 11/ Dragon Disciple 8
Sorcerer 8/ Dragon Disciple 9
Magus 12/ Dragon Disciple 10
Magus 13/ Sorcerer 9
Magus 14/ Sorcerer 10
Magus 15/ Loremaster 1
Magus 16/ Loremaster 2
Magus 17/ Loremaster 3

Loremaster and DD are both applying to the Sorcerer casting. DD doesn't grant full casting-- levels 1, 5, and 9 miss them. But by taking three levels of Sorcerer on the other 'side', I can keep the CL for Sorcerer close to max (Between levels 6 and 11, caster level = character level -1, the rest of the time it's at full. I could keep it at full the entire time by taking Sorcerer 6/DD 1 at level 6, but I didn't want to delay Magus 9).

You could do the same thing with, say, 11 levels of Wizard and 10 of Eldritch Knight, plus 19 of other stuff. Or whatever prestige class you like really. The Mystic Theurge suggestion from earlier is a solid one on that front; you could take ten levels each of four different classes and still have 20th level casting on two of them. Make the fourth Monk or Fighter or something and you can up your defenses while spamming spells. Or, to build on the Rogue suggestion from earlier, what about 20 levels of Rogue mated to 10 each of Wizard and Arcane Trickster? Full casting, huge sneak attack dice, some fun bonuses to casting to boot.

If you really wanted to remain a pure double-caster, I would go Summoner (Master Summoner)/Sorcerer. Summoner can lock down the board with, well, summons, and Sorcerer with the right bloodline (I like Bedrock, but Primal might be the go-to) can support those summons and provide a good Plan B.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

Yeah, I sort of started thinking about a caster that polymorphs and isn't a druid. i Really want to stay away from summoning though, at least anything that focused on numbers.

thought of a Synth summoner who's form is just full defence, and then just casts death from the skies.

though for right now what I ended up making was a sorc wizard both using shadow as their school and bloodline, focusing on illusion magic.


Had a friend think along those lines with Synth. You can pull out a really tanky Eidolon armor if you want to.

I'd consider Cross/Wildblooding the Sorc to Sage if you do that. Cuts you down to one casting stat and makes life much easier to keep track of.


Yeah, summoning is beautiful and wonderful and powerful, right up until the rest of the party beats you to death because every combat turn takes you 5 minutes to move and adjust your huge army.

Synth Summoner (focused on defense with a few extras like flight) with your shadow-sorceror. Flavor-wise you have your Eidolon literally be your shadow, rising up and wrapping around you as living armor. You summon up monsters and illusions that are quasi-real from the darkness, blast your enemies to bits, and you call yourself Jackie Estacado because ohnoitsgonetoometa.


Sorcerer/oracle. With one side going mystic theurge. Massive amounts of spell love and some neat abilities

Dark Archive

Don't half-ass it.

Be an Arcanist/Witch.

So many SLAs you barely need spells, but when you need to cast...


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I should add, one of the reasons I really like mixing monk in with full caster is that when they aren't trying to fight or kill anyone and getting ginsu'd by the real martial classes, they can prove quite difficult to kill and synergize with arcane caster (or caster in general). The high mobility (more than just speed), prodigious saves, penchant for the same array of magic items, and eventual spell resistance are all very nice for the glass cannon that doesn't want to get shattered by the Evil Wizard™'s death spells or his burly minions' axes.

Of course their reliance on many different ability scores is a hassle, but if you aren't trying to fake it as a fighter you free yourself from at least some of that trouble.


I like Wizard/Alchemist.

You really only need Int to be high. You need a decent con and dex, like all caster types, sadly. You can completely dump the rest, though.

You get a decent BAB, decent hit die, and all your saving throws are good.

You share your spellbook with your formula book.

You can use alchemist stuff to cover the self-buff department, allowing you to prep debuffs/crowd control/etc, with your spells.

Bombs are available for pure blasting damage, letting you otherwise leave spell slots for "god wizard" stuff.

If you take mindchemist or otherwise obtain a cognatogen, you have a reliable method of increasing spell DCs.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Gestalting 9th Level Caster All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.