Starting EoA-- Korvosa Advice


Curse of the Crimson Throne


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I'm a relatively new GM, starting CotCT this weekend for a bunch of first-time players. I've read over the first two modules as well as the guide to Korvosa, but I'm struggling with how to flesh out Korvosa with some smallish adventures. This is partially to up the player investment in the city and partially to break up Cressidia's series of fetch-quests...

Reading over comments on the forums here, I really like the idea of foreshadowing the gray maidens with a series of missing women and maybe a kidnapping attempt on the players. I also want to hate on Eodred a bit-- calling attention to his womanizing and such, just the characters might start out sympathetic to Ileosa.

What sort of Korvosa-fluff has worked well in your campaigns? What sort of side-quests are appropriate in a city that's rioting? What was good foreshadowing for things later in the story? Thanks!


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At the end of the Edge of Anarchy, in the Dead Warrens, I placed an amnesiac woman with scars all over her face in Cabbagehead's pits. Unable to fully break her, Ileosa's forces gave this woman up to Rolth to use as a necromantic test subject.

The player's characters rescued this woman and later, after regaining her memory, she was able to convey to them important narrative information concerning the Grey Maiden's origins.

This woman has now become a member of the party proper. And we have even had parallel adventures detailing her past.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My best advice is to expand Lamm's operation and give the party time in Korvosa during Eodred's reign. I did this by using the brief mention of Lamm being involved with Shiver to build a mini drug empire for the players to bust up. I had Zellara sell "total revenge" to the players and had her point them to cogs in Gaedren's machine, and the players collected personal items from the main henchmen to help Zellara guide them to the next spot and ultimately Gaedren. As long as they end up with the brooch when the city starts burning, you're probably doing alright. Why I suggest doing everything before the anarchy is so that the party gets to "meet" Korvosa and know what the heck their fighting for. This was the biggest change I made when I ran the AP for a second group, and it made a world of difference.

There are a few things you should consider when taking your Grey Maiden approach.

1) Be careful with the timeline. The Grey Maidens aren't getting formed before Eodred dies. Also, Queen Ileosa's power (and with that her ambition) are still developing. All this means is that it isn't likely she begins forming the Grey Maidens immediately upon gaining the throne. Besides, there are bigger concerns to occupy her initially, like reining in the great families and turning Korvosa's giant bureaucracy to her will.

2) Be careful with Ileosa's reputation. Part of the fun this AP provides is being able to sell Ileosa as the good person in a tough situation all the way until they determine the true nature of blood veil. If you tie anything to her being bad early, your players lose that fun reveal. The first way to get around this that comes to mind is to set up some rumors that imply Rolth is behind it, then when they ransack one of Rolth's warrens, they will start to think the BBEG might be the necromancer. Sort of deflecting blame from the queen. Honestly, if I ever get the chance to run this a third time, I will play up Rolth even more than I did the second time. He has been a lot of fun for me.

As long as you keep these things in mind, you will do just fine.

Because I'm half drunk and your post is making me nostalgic, I'll give a quick share of my Grey Maiden take. It's a bit different, and by no means better, but maybe you can take some ideas from it. Keep in mind that I played Ileosa as the good guy (er, girl/demon/dragon) to the hilt for as long as possible.

My approach to Grey Maidens was to foreshadow them as a good thing, or at least not a bad thing. I did this a few ways:

1) Have the barmaid they were flirting with all the way through book 1 proudly tell them that she was getting out of that tavern and joining the new queensguard. This paints it as a path out of the lower class.

2) Someone talking about their cousin joining up, being proud of the status they think they'll have and the great paycheck--three ties what he makes as a Korvosan Guard! This paints it as a high paying, enviable position.

3) I had Kressida bemoaning that her best and brightest women were leaving her for Ileosa's personal guard at a time when she needs all the help she can get, but that she doesn't blame them considering the pay and equipment bump. Same as before, and it reinforces why she is working with the party in the first place.

4) Have the weaponsmith tell them it will be a little longer before they can fill any orders because they have a rich contract from the Queen herself! A good thing, too, since things got so bad with the riots he was afraid he might have to close. Economic stimulus? An armorsmith could even show off a completed suit of armor to them.

Enough stuff like that makes it seem like a good deal. The reason I did it, though, was to make killing Grey Maidens a little more personal. It never stopped any of my players from doing it, of course, but they offered surrender a lot more than in any other campaign I've run and they did feel kind of bad about it. It also ratchets up the tension when they return to the city in book 6 and then hear about how it became conscription. Then they meet parents sobbing because their daughter was "drafted." Keeps the hate for Ileosa strong, and makes killing minions a little more interesting. Finally, it helps sell Sabina's scheme to free a bunch of Grey Maiden rejects in book 6 (which is done off screen, but totally worth writing up for the PCs to do).

Anyway, I hope that inspires!

Knick, bane of your mouse wheel


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I created an in game newsletter I named the Korvosa Chronicle. It gave a voice to Korvosa and allowed me to impart a lot of backstory information, drop red herrings etc. It also gave allowed the competing factions (pro-Illeosa vs. rebels) to give voice to their positions. In the end, I had the Chronicle go underground as Illeosa's reign became bloodier and more controlling.

It was fun for me as the DM and the players.


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Quote:
My approach to Grey Maidens was to foreshadow them as a good thing, or at least not a bad thing. I did this a few ways:

Those are beautiful and all of them will be stolen.

Quote:
My best advice is to expand Lamm's operation and give the party time in Korvosa during Eodred's reign.

This is my plan as well - I want Lamm to be a competitor with the likes of the Emperor and the Arkonas for the power and respect of the city's underworld, not some two-bit criminal offed in the first (in-character) five minutes of the story. I'm moving him - and the riots, and a few of the other events - to the end of Chapter One and making the majority of the other encounters as, to one degree or another, his underlings. This requires beefing Lamm and his immediate goons up a little bit, but I'm pretty okay with that.


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Wow, those are all a lot of great ideas!

First with the Gray Maidens, I'm definitely going to go the happy-sunshine route. Maybe there will be a darker tinge to it all later... I actually really want the PCs to be on Ileosa's side for as long as possible (I think that they wouldn't care for Eodred much, and I love the idea of them being loyalists during the riots. Much more potential for conflict)

I've also started working on an expanded intro:

The PC's show up at Zellara's and she tells them the story about her Harrow deck and her son. At the end, she says that she's used her deck to discover that her son had an accomplice in finding Lamm. She tells them of an inn/house/tavern where the accomplice can be found. They arrive (getting a chance to see a social side of Korvosa), then ultimately find out that the accomplice was his lover and that she's either (a) gone into hiding or (b) joined the guard. I'm leaning towards the first option, since it opens up the potential for some light combat (fight off Lamm's thugs when they get to her). She'll tell them where the fishery is-- perhaps they'll convince her to join the guard (or at least go to them for protection). That way, there can be a female guard member that they have more of a connection to who can eventually become a Gray Maiden.

At the fishery... I can't decide if Graeden should be there or not. If not, there can be an underling and it all leads to Knick's awesome-sounding shiver-lab encounter later in the adventure. If he is there... he could run away (cue shiver-lab), or they could kill him and find a letter from the King of Spiders (turns out Gaedren's been working for Barvasi all along??) That way, Eel's End has more of a personal connection and they could have more of a mission to "take on the underworld." If he does escape, where are you putting him in the end, Orthos?

I'm definitely going to try to use Rolth deflect attention from the queen. I've also read of someone tying him into Gaedren. Any ideas on that? Or does that just make everything too connected?

And once again, thanks for the ideas! My campaign is getting more interesting by the second!


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Quote:
If he does escape, where are you putting him in the end, Orthos?

Live or die, he's going to end up with Rolth and Jolistina for a bit, then continue his illicit dealings elsewhere. If he dies, he just does it as a ghoul instead of a living man. He has a contract with Rolth for that, in the event of his untimely demise.

Granted I'm trying to figure out what he'll do if they decide to feed him to the gator, but I'm sure I can figure something out.


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Mr. Vergee’s campaign journal is an amazing resource for fleshing out how to start this campaign.

I strongly encourage everyone who wants to run this AP to check out his work.

I’ll go ahead and say that Gaedren gets away the first go around the Fishery, but later on the PCs have their revenge!

Whatever you do, I wouldn’t beholden your plans for Gaedren in one way or another. When they find him at the fishery, If the PCs catch him off guard or whatever, have him go down. Rolth can always find a purpose for him in his death!


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My own korvosa game died but a new one will likely form from its ashes.

It'll utilize the angle that Zellara needs focii of Gaedren in order to see clearly where he's hiding. So the PCs will be slowly but surely dismantling his shiver empire getting clues. I'm brainstorming how. I'm thinking of bashing down some drug lieutenants in a flop house, waylaying a shipment of dream Spiders, the warehouse and underground alch lab foreshadowing Rolth, leading finally into a showdown against Gaedren.

Ironically this will be something the King of Spiders will relish in. His top competitor is gone.

So if you can hang on for a smudge, I might have a crazy plan you can use to emphasize Gaedren more!


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I put a note to Rolth in the hatbox with Zellara's head. Gaedren suggesting the necromancer "use this pretty bit of flesh for one of your creatures." It's a dead lead at that point in the story, but it serves as part of a grander scheme in leading up to Rolth rather than just suddenly dropping him into the plot when Thousand Bones mentions him.


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Rolth keeps sounding like more and more fun. I guess that's what happens when you have a necromancer kicking around (as a side note, do most people keep him as a Wizard? Or would it be better to rebuild him as an Alchemist?)

Mr. Vergee's journal is a fun read, but I think I need to up the pace to keep my player's interest. I think I'll try something more like you're suggesting, Olondir, adding to Gaedren a bit before they head to the fishery. I was also thinking that I would let the players have some sort of "investment" during character creation. If they all live in Korvosa, it makes sense that they have a home or a job or some relationships. And that way, we can jump right into the plot. Are there problems to letting them have homes or jobs? It doesn't seem like it should unbalance their gear too much...


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TheImaginaryFriend wrote:
Rolth keeps sounding like more and more fun. I guess that's what happens when you have a necromancer kicking around (as a side note, do most people keep him as a Wizard? Or would it be better to rebuild him as an Alchemist?)

I plan to keep him as a Wizard. But Doctor Davaulus is excellent for converting into an Alchemist.

And yes, Rolth is fun. This thread starts out being a lot about Laori, but in some of the later parts Mikaze branches off a bit talking about the later portions of his campaign, specifically how he used Rolth and Jolistina as a Joker-And-Harley recurring villain set. I fully intend to play him up as Mark Hamill Joker-esque as I can.


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I allowed my players to have homes in Korvosa. The biggest problem that could occur is if they try and sell it to get the loot. I flat out told my players that they could not sell their homes, so don't even think about it. A lot of properties in Korvosa are unoccupied due to the exodus to Magnimar, so I imagine it's a buyers market in Korvosa and housing prices are very depressed.

Another problem comes up when the characters are forced out of Korvosa and they have to leave their homes behind. But this can act as extra incentive for the players to set things right in Korvosa.

One of the players' characters reclaimed his family's manor house from Rolth who was squatting in it. We have had several side adventures and quests there. It has been fun.


Also, the process of selling a house takes such a long time that you could reasonably deny giving the player the funds even while allowing them to sell.


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That's a really good idea! I have a similar plan.

I will be following Mr. Vergee's footsteps and letting my players earn the old Chelish Ambassador's manor after they've forced him out and uncovered his plot.

Whichever way it happens I think giving your players a house really helps reinforce reasons to stick around and save their city.


I don't know if I'll go as far as saying everyone has a house, but I certainly won't deny it for those who want one.

More to the point, I already told the players I've discussed running this game with that a key part of the plot will be their ties to the city, and that if they don't love the city and have a wish - regardless of race, class, social status, alignment, etc. - to see to its well-being to the best of their ability, their character will not fit in this campaign. I have a pretty good group about these kind of things so I'm not overly worried.


I had the same conversation with my players and I would suggest it for everyone running this adventure path. The overarching motivation of the players' characters is the well being of the city and its citizens.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There's a lot of good stuff bouncing around this thread. I have a soft spot for this AP, so I can't help but comment with long, boring paragraphs. Obviously, it should go without mention that this is just one person's opinion--what works for your game may vary.

In response to the Mr Vergee prelude approach: I like what MrVergee is going for there, but if somebody wants to play an elf or some other slow aging race the whole thing needs to be overhauled. Also--and this is just a personal opinion--I feel as though he is playing through and letting fate (dice) determine some of the character background stuff that I want to develop for my hero. The campaign traits provide several reasons to hate Lamm, and that accommodates more character archtypes than Mr Vergee's (in my opinion very good) planned out prelude.

In response to Gaedren as a recurring villain: Let him die. Let the players win. Don't steal that sense of accomplishment. Besides, too many recurring villains get stale. Save that card for the showstoppers like Laori and Rolth (I also highly recommend introducing Sial in a very different way than the book). Letting Gaedren die allows the players to switch gears and give the post-Eodred anarchy their full attention. Can you blame characters with a built in vendetta against Lamm for completely abandoning the city's needs to chase down yet another lead on Gaedren so they can finally make their revenge stick?

In response to linking Gaedren to Rolth: I'm not entirely against the idea, but when everything is linked together it all seems contrived and also makes Korvosa seem like a smaller place. If I were to link them in any way at all, I might have Rolth know who Gaedren is/was. More than likely, the necroterrorist has little use for a criminal who feeds bodies to a croc or chops off their heads, leaving nothing good to work with.

In response to characters with homes: The first group I ran this AP for was not as interested in worrying about where in Korvosa they came from, and they were more than happy to live at the inn on Kressida's dime. This gave them a convenient base of operations, and so the hooks were simpler and the group stayed together. When I ran the campaign a second time, I was determined that the party would have roots in the city and know why they were fighting for it. I made a point to make the Guide to Korvosa readily available, and I encouraged them to have roots in the city (this was also when I expanded Lamm's operation). In this case, I forced them to have a place to live and let them know that I would charge them the rent per month that was listed in the book for whatever home they chose.

Whether or not that is an owned house with upkeep or a rental is up to you and your players--3 out of 4 characters I had were renting, and the fourth would die before parting with his family's estate. I ended up with some great characters who used this to help flesh out their backgrounds and status. The two characters living in Bridgefront were very different from the scion of a wrongly dishonored noble house from North Point, who was different from the widower son of nouveau riche South Shore merchants living in Midland. It was more complicated to get the whole group in one place for certain encounters as they slowly overcame class boundaries to unite against the threats to Korvosa, but we all had a lot of fun just getting from home to Citadel Volshyenek during the rioting. The noble not understanding how to get across town without hired carts was a hilarious episode. If I am ever lucky enough to run this a third time, I will make them decide where to live again. Not every player will use this as attachment to the city, but if just one does that makes it worth it.

This doesn't preclude giving the party a line of credit at the inn or a Chelish ambassador's house. I know that my two characters from the shingles decided to move into Zellara's place once they discovered she was dead--taking advantage of the 2 year escrow that Gaedren always used to.

My thoughts on characters with jobs: The jobs thing is entirely harmless. Let's face it: adventuring is much better money, so it is likely that the jobs are very temporary. I've had a rehabbed shiver addict working a bar in the shingles over Bridgefront (The Flying Anchor, named so because someone got a very large anchor up there. Renamed to Anchor's Away after it got dislodged and fell to the streets during the riots), I've had a working con-artist, a guitarist, a private eye, I've even had an exterminator (someone's got to get the rats off of his dad's small merchant fleet), and some others. I've also had characters without jobs. A priest of Sarenrae who gave away his spellcasting to the poor and they all contributed to keeping him fed and sheltered, a disenfranchised noble who played escort to several wealthy widows so that he could maintain his lifestyle, and some others. Ultimately, the jobs don't stick after they are getting more money in one of Kroft's tasks than they used to make in months. And if the jobs are getting in the way, there is a combination of rioting, looting, customers too afraid to leave home, and plague to put their place of employment out of business. I never had to go that route. I did get two very funny "I QUIT!" encounters though.

Some thoughts on Rolth: I like him as a necromancer a lot. Evil necromancers are classic trope, although I prefer to take more of a necroterrorist spin on it. His plots are grand, if not always well thought out, and his obsession with destroying the PCs after they ruined his grandest plague scheme of all (in his own twisted mind the idea was all his), killed his elf, and ransacked one of his hideouts rivals the party's hatred of Gaedren. In the second run, some good saving throws by the party meant he was still in his gem during a magic jar that was thrown into a pit far away from his body during a battle in Kaer Maga. Normally, I like to let the players have their day since this was their third Rolth encounter (where I let him lie the first time I ran this), but I couldn't help myself. I had Togomor put that gem into an advanced, flying cannon golem hellbent on recovering his spellbook. Dutifully serving Ileosa to guard Castle Korvosa only because he knew the party would show up eventually. That fight was so much fun that I had to let the players have their victory and leave him dead--if only because I couldn't top it.

A final side thought on Jolistina: I was very leery about overplaying this NPC because I wanted Laori to be my batshit crazy elf exemplar. I'm not against keeping her around as a fun part of Rolth's character, but I didn't go out of my way to save her to make future appearances. I thought she might survive the second time I ran the game, but the gunslinger was so horrified and infuriated at the callous and unrepentant way Jolistina murdered everyone at the masquerade that he put one in the back of her head as soon as he was left alone with her. I considered zombie bride type stuff, but instead used it as more reason for Rolth to hate the group. If she ever makes it out of Carowyn Manor, I'll obviously have a decision to make. It will very likely be to bring her back with Rolth, just not in book 2.

Hope that inspires!


Jolistina. I can't forget her. My group subdued and interrogated her, and then...handed her over to the Grey Maidens. What a joy!

It was very difficult to keep my poker face on during the handover, and I can't wait to bring her back.


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My players just finished the campaign (success!), so I'm pretty fresh on this.

The thing I had the most success with in my campaign was constant misinformation and gossip. At a certain point the players are going to figure out what's going on, of course, but until then I tried to keep them constantly off-balance. I made lists of conflicting rumors and red herrings and also threw a little bit of foreshadowing into the mix, so that it wouldn't be noticed among the pile of other useless information.

One thing I was really proud of was that I had the very first event in the city be that the seneschal, Neolandus, was leaving Korvosa to go pick up some new slaves for Ileosa. Big retinue, lots of people milling about upset because their day-to-day was being disrupted by something super out of the ordinary, and it was a great way for me to throw something significant at the players that seemed like simple backstory. In truth, Neolandus wasn't leaving the city, he'd just disappeared, and Ileosa had figured out a great way to try and cover that up.

Playing Ileosa as much more of a cunning biznitch was also a joy. She starts to figure out that the players are getting into her business a lot, and between straight-up trying to off them and getting into a propaganda war it was a lot of fun to show the players that they were messing with someone who was smart and had a goal in mind. At one point the players were trapped, because Ileosa was publicly supporting them cleaning up the city while simultaneously sending thugs out to kill them. I even ran the Academy of Secrets module (adjusted down for level) just before the end of 7DttG; my reasoning for this was that despite it being an individual event normally, and despite the plague, Ileosa demanded that it go on in order to keep the populace happy and give something nice to the people. While also sending the party into a gauntlet that nobody's returned from in more than 100 years...

The more you delve into motivations and actually try to manipulate the players' opinions, the more fun you'll have I think.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Puna'chong wrote:
Good stuff

I agree. I mean, I probably like to mess with players' heads and assumptions more than the average GM, but they appreciate the mind job when they get fun reveals and surprises. They even get to have the fun of knowing it all along sometimes, although I do my best to avoid that (which makes it more satisfying to the player when they earn it).

It's all a song and dance by the Queen to win the people over long enough to sacrifice all of them for her eternal youth. Well, at least that's the plan once she learns about the whole eternal youth option.

Anyway, Ileosa was a devious, manipulative woman BEFORE she found the Fangs of Kazavon. Play her that way, and your players won't know what to believe until they search the Direption. Having run this twice, I've had two tries at keeping the party off of the Queen's trail after that ship, and I still haven't been able to do it. I don't want to brag, but I've had both of those groups not realize Glorio Arkona was a rakshasa during book 3. No matter how much I tried to pin the plague on Rolth, I just can't make it stick. If I'm lucky enough to have a third group to torment, er, run this game for, I'll try to emphasize Rolth a little more a little earlier so that they might believe he's behind everything for a little while.

Honestly, if you aren't messing with your players' minds what is the point of running a game? The whole point is for everyone to have fun--GM included.


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Knick wrote:
In response to Gaedren as a recurring villain: Let him die. Let the players win. Don't steal that sense of accomplishment.

Just use what you find from everybody here to slay it big time. Here's my take. I have stolen shamelessly from EVERYBODY on these boards. Thanks to all of you, hope you like my additions. This is right after Lamm dies and they find Z's stuff.

His white and blue blazing spirit rises defiantly. “You insignificant puss scabs. This isn’t over. I’ve survived worse than your nightmares. This is MY town!” Grabs hero by jaw, holds them on wall. “You think you can tear down all I’ve built? You think you can just take EVERYTHING, from ME? Never! Do you know who I am? I… am your death, you splintered wisp.” Suddenly, from a shadow, Zellara steps out. A green whorl of dark energy appears in the wall behind as chains shoot forth, binding him. As he struggles, flames shoot up his limbs, crippling him. Orc drums sound. Bard Knowledge check for Ballad of Kazavon. Three spirits arrive to collect him (ignoring the PCs); Gaedren's former comrades. A Paladin, a Wizard and a Monk.
“Brother Gaedren Lamm. To us you were promised in the sacred sight of the Gods. Bathed in water, sworn by blood, branded by fire. Thrice sworn, thrice damned. We were your comrades, Gaedren. Sworn to cleanse Scarwall. And you left us to die. As you left us in the water of our tears, you will forever thirst. As you left us in blood, we come as yours flees your feeble body. As you left us in trial by fire, you will forever burn. Scarwall claims you. And we, your thrice Godsworn comrades, are its messengers.”
They drag his soul back to Scarwall in chains in front of their astonished eyes, while Zelanna watches.

Trying this on Sunday, we'll see how it works.

Liberty's Edge

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On PCs having homes: I gave my characters 2 extra skill points, much like the new background skills in PUnch. ne of the Cavaets for taking those points was that at least one of them must be spent on something that covered their income stream, their connection to town. I don't remember all of their choices but I will drop the ones I remember:

Vanozza: a Varisian Barbarian who took Profession (Fortuneteller).

Mikhail: a Chelaxian Rogue who took Profession (Barber). He fought with War Razors and was inspired by the recently released Sweeney Todd movie with Johnny Depp. We nicknamed him the "Devil Barber of Wave Street."

Galtherion: a Half-Elven Sorcerer who took Profession (Merchant) and ran a Curiosities and Oddities shop, basically a Magic Item shop.

Ausk: a Half-Orc Oracle of Battle who took Profession (Brewer).

Jared: an Elven Summoner I don't remember his choices but he worked for the Elven embassy.

It may seem dangerous to let them have some of these "Big Money" businesses, but I had good players and we came to an understanding on how to handle things. I did not charge them rent or taxes, and we agreed that any money from their "businesses" would cover its expenses as well as any costs associated with Food and lodging.

My players really dug it, at least I think they did, and I had no problems.


Oh, I like that one of Gaedren being dragged off in chains to Scarwall!

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