| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
So, the wording of the Vivisectionist Alchemist archetype's sneak attack feature seems like it would interact beneficially with classes that don't grant full sneak attack progression. I could just be reading this wrong, so let me know if I'm missing something here.
Sneak Attack
At 1st level, a vivisectionist gains the sneak attack ability as a rogue of the same level. If a character already has sneak attack from another class, the levels from the classes that grant sneak attack stack to determine the effective rogue level for the sneak attack’s extra damage dice (so an alchemist 1/rogue 1 has a +1d6 sneak attack like a 2nd-level rogue, an alchemist 2/rogue 1 has a +2d6 sneak attack like a 3rd-level rogue, and so on).
This ability replaces bomb.
So, I'll take an easy example like the Snakebite Striker Brawler archetype.
If you have Vivisectionist 1/Snakebite Striker 2, would you have +2d6 Sneak Attack? Snakebite Striker is a class that grants sneak attack, but it stacks into Vivisectionist's Sneak Attack feature as rogue levels. So you would have an effective rogue level of 3, granting +2d6 sneak attack from Vivisectionist, despite not having that progression as a Snakebite Striker Brawler.
Am I reading this right? If so, this is a one level dip to get full sneak attack progression with classes that don't get full sneak attack normally on their own, such as the Slayer (though less effective).
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Uh ? I don't really understand, if you want a simple and clear rule with few words it's this : Sneak Attack from different class stack. No more, no less.
So if you make a Vivisectionist 1 /rogue 1 you have 2d6 Sneak attack. A Vivi 2/rogue 2 got 2d6 sneak attack... a Vivi 3/rogue 2 get 3d6 sneak and a vivi 3/ rogue 3 get 4d6 sneak...
Normally something with the same name/bonus from different class don't stack, you take the best one and dismiss the others, but sneak attack are an exception to this rule and stack.
Hope it's clearer... ;)
@Loengrin
No, that's wrong. Read it again, it describes how it works. A Vivi 1/Rogue 1 would still only give you +1d6 SA, it even blatantly describes that in the feature. What this class feature seems to grant you is sneak attack based on your effective rogue level, which is calculated by adding together the levels of all classes that you have that grant sneak attack.
@Loengrin
No, that's wrong. Read it again, it describes how it works. A Vivi 1/Rogue 1 would still only give you +1d6 SA, it even blatantly describes that in the feature. What this class feature seems to grant you is sneak attack based on your effective rogue level, which is calculated by adding together the levels of all classes that you have that grant sneak attack.
Oh right... My bad, sorry...
Wow... So a Slayers 7/vivi 1 will be a rogue 8 ?!?! Well I assume it will count as a Slayers 8 not a Rogue 8 no ? That's what they mean by RAI a think...
But for now per RAW you're right, a Vivi 1/Slayers 7 as Rogue 8 Sneak it seems... Idem for Warpriest Cult Leader, the bard archetyp with sneak, etc. etc.
They must quickly make an errata for this, it's really broken as it is...
I see how someone could read this class ability that way. I read it that the levels stack, but a Sandman bard's levels count as 1/5 progression whereas a ninja, vivisectionist, or rogue would count as 1/2 per level. So I would go for it if you had 3 levels of sandman bard and 2 levels of vivisectionist that you would get 2d6 sneak. If not that is an interesting ability that previously did not have much importance because of the limited sneak progressions. The ACG changes things though.
It's only a shame that it isn't PFS legal. :'D I'm going to pocket this one for a home game though.
All this for avoiding a dip in Vivi for +1d6 sneak... :/
Well since I'm the GM, in my game Sneak stack and you can dip if you want... It's still better than you can dip, make a Slayers or a Brawler and have the same sneak has a rogue...
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...Uh ? I don't really understand, if you want a simple and clear rule with few words it's this : Sneak Attack from different class stack. No more, no less.
So if you make a Vivisectionist 1 /rogue 1 you have 2d6 Sneak attack. A Vivi 2/rogue 2 got 2d6 sneak attack... a Vivi 3/rogue 2 get 3d6 sneak and a vivi 3/ rogue 3 get 4d6 sneak...
Normally something with the same name/bonus from different class don't stack, you take the best one and dismiss the others, but sneak attack are an exception to this rule and stack.
Hope it's clearer... ;)
yes, but there is a big question about how this works with classes that dont get full sneak attack progression. Snakebite striker archetype is a great example, as mentioned earlier, with +1d6 at first, 6th, 10th, 12th, and 20th levels. a RAW for Vivisectionist gives a snakebite striker 8/viv 1 a rouge 9's sneak attack bonus. This seems far for the intent of the snakebite strikers's sneak attack which directly stacks with all other SA bonuses:
Sneak Attack (Ex): At 1st level, the snakebite striker can make a sneak attack. This is as the rogue ability of the same name. At 1st level, her sneak attack damage is +1d6. This increases by 1d6 at 6th, 10th, 12th, and 20th levels. If she gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.So which stacking rule applies? the Vivisectionists rouge sneak attack progression or the snakebite striker's direct stacking?
yes, but there is a big question about how this works with classes that dont get full sneak attack progression. Snakebite striker archetype is a great example, as mentioned earlier, with +1d6 at first, 6th, 10th, 12th, and 20th levels. a RAW for Vivisectionist gives a snakebite striker 8/viv 1 a rouge 9's sneak attack bonus. This seems far for the intent of the snakebite strikers's sneak attack which directly stacks with all other SA bonuses:
Sneak Attack (Ex): At 1st level, the snakebite striker can make a sneak attack. This is as the rogue ability of the same name. At 1st level, her sneak attack damage is +1d6. This increases by 1d6 at 6th, 10th, 12th, and 20th levels. If she gets a sneak attack bonus from another source, the bonuses on damage stack.So which stacking rule applies? the Vivisectionists rouge sneak attack progression or the snakebite striker's direct stacking?
Per RAW, for now, if you take the vivisectionist class you are right, a Snakebite 8 / Vivi 1 will have the same sneak as a rogue (4d6 for a lvl 9 rogue). When I say that, for me, Sneak attack stack tehn I mean Snake 1 / Vivi 1 get 2d6 Sneak (1d6 from the Snake and 1d6 from the Vivi) a Snake 5/Vivi 1 will still have 2d6 sneak (no sneak attack gained), at 6th level the snake gain 1d6 sneak stacking with his 2d6 to make 3d6, at Snake 9/Vivi 1 he still got 3d6 and gain another one at 10th for 4d6 etc.
Ok you can have one more d6 by dipping in vivi or rogue (well, for rogue you can, no such silly rogue in the rogue sneak) but with the vivi rules as is you gain a lot more sneak than intended : a Snake 18 / Vivi 1 would have 10d6 sneak (same as a lvl 19 rogue...)
Broken...