My friend is interested in playing a "ninja" but in his mind this involves magic, not the features of the official ninja alternate class.
He does not want to read through all the Pathfinder rules to design his PC. What advice can we give him?
Here is my idea, a spell-casting knife-thrower raised by pirates...
Start with five levels of Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor. Then do three levels of Swashbuckler. Then resume the Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor.
Traits: Magical Knack, River Rat
Feats: Breadth of Experience, Quick Draw, Divine Protection
His domain could be Tactics (initiative) or Trade (movement) or Feather (animal companion, flight).
His later feats would round out what parts he wants to emphasize. (Boon Companion? Deadly Aim? Power Attack? Insightful Gaze? Improved Monster Lore?)
His character has a lot of Wisdom (spell casting, domain powers, monster lore, initiative) and Charisma (daily Panache pool, bonus to damage, bonus to all saving throws, limited daily use boosts to saving throws and AC, discern lies DC).
Strength and Dexterity are secondary (either can be used for to-hit rolls, one focuses on damage and the other on initiative).
Overall, he is wise, likable, contributes well in and out of combat, has very solid defenses, enjoys both Studied Target and Sneak Attack for "ninja flavor", and can cast invisibility and other "ninja magic" spells.
Comments?
Is there an early-entry Sorcerer/Something Eldritch Knight that can do the job even better?
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Easiest way to do this would be to let him play a Wayang Shadow Wizard.
The huge bonuses to Stealth from both being Small and having a racial +2 will make him feel very ninja-ish, and high Intelligence gives you a lot of skill points to play around with. He could even multiclass this with the actual Ninja (or Rogue or Slayer or Investigator) class to feel even more Ninja-ish.
If you can convince him to go with arcane casting, the Arcane Trickster prestige class advances spellcasting and gives sneak attack.
Have you looked at the Stygian Slayer?
Empyreal Bloodline Sorcerer lets you use Wisdom for casting if you want...
Sanctified Slayer inquisitor was my immediate thought as well; I think you're on a good path there. Inquisitors get all the right spells you'd want, and aren't too complicated to play, since they have spontaneous casting, so your options are limited to things you know will be useful.
A one level dip in the actual ninja class wouldn't be a bad way to start, just because you get sneak attack a lot earlier that way, as well as poison use, which is very thematic.
I can think of a couple options for what your friend wants...
You could play an actual ninja and take the rogue's magic talents with your ninja tricks. It doesn't give a LOT of magic, but it does fall within the range of his concept. Ki powers can emulate spells, too, like vanishing trick.
You could play an arcane trickster. I have been wanting to try this using a blade adept arcanist and vivisectionist alchemist. It would take vivi3/arcanist4 before you get into trickster, but it will net you an alchemist discovery and a sentient blackblade that levels with your entire character level rather than your class le vel if you take the eldrich blade exploit.
I have a character who is a "ninja" in the style of Naruto - flashy magic, lots of special powers, doesn't really use his weapons much.
He's a 14th level wizard.
You could also just make him a Magus. They can use, say, a wakizashi or a katana, and then use magic spells, flavored as ninja magic.
I'd second the Magus, perhaps the Eldritch Scion archetype.
I'm a big fan of the Dark Tapestry Oracle Mystery. You get some really debilitating spells, you get an armor effect that boosts your stealth, and you're a full caster class. Halflings make great ones and they get a huge bonus to their stealth skill from being small. The heavens mystery has a little less sneakiness, but being able to color spray high level opponents thanks to awesome display is pretty ninja.
Take away ki powers, give him bard casting.
A dervish dancing magus with the appropriate skills and magic could probably do this pretty well. The eldritch scion archetype to allow for spontaneous casting would probably make it even more fun.
Reflavor the scimitar as a katana. Or you could use slashing grace to get dex to damage. The difficult thing is finding a weapon that you can use weapon finesse and dex to damage on, and thats why the scimitar is a go to.
Yeah...I think magus is the right level of swordplay and magic for you friend.
Thanks for all the suggestions so far.
Do you know what he means by "ninja magic"? Because to me, ninjas are completely non-magical, but if he considers them magical it might help to have an idea of what kind of magic that is.
What levels is your player working with, and what type of "ninja" are we talking about? With the addition of magic are you speaking more in terms of "anime ninjas"? Also what type of weapons is he interested in using?
Primal hunter with or with out the pet. This also gives limited bard like divine casting. Pick small race then grab the shadow blending evos plus the +8 skill evo.
If wall climbing is important to him (I do not know), the Vanara race has a climb speed.
But that would not work well with my original idea, because of the Vanaran penalty to Charisma. (For a plain Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor without the Swashbuckler dip it could be groovy.)
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I noticed that the Inquisitor spell list lacks some of what are probably considered the most "ninja-like" spells such as Vanish, Blur, and Mirror Image.
But it does have quite enough.
First Level - Disguise Self, Divine Favor, Expeditious Retreat, Magic Weapon, Returning Weapon, Shield of Faith, True Strike, Vocal Alteration
Second Level - Acute Senses, Bloodhound, Darkness, Death Candle, Death Knell, Detect Thoughts, Enshroud Thoughts, Escaping Ward, Find Traps, Follow Aura, Ghostly Disguise, Hold Person, Invisibility, Knock, Perceive Cues, See Invisibility, Silence, Undetectable Alignment, Whispering Wind
The PC I'm playing right now has a very ninja-like feel to him, but is much less dependent on spells. Zen Archer Monk/Empyreal Sorcerer. I mostly just use the sorcerer spells for Gravity Bow and Mage Armor, but if you take more levels of sorcerer, it could be more mage-like. ZAM/Inquisitor would be good too. I might have to try to talk myself out of taking a level or two of that as well.
A couple things that make this more ninja-like are my traits. Magical Knack (+2 CL) and Wisdom in the Flesh (sub WIS mod for STR or DEX for any skill). You could choose Acrobatics and boost it while being less MAD. I also took the Monkey Style and Monkey Moves feats. Monkey moves lets you climb at half your speed and Monks have great speed anyway. I also chose the Tattooed Sorcerer variant and got the monkey familiar. It gives a boost to Acrobatics as well. If you want to get real good at climbing and can go Mythic, you can get the Climbing Master and Impossible Speed Mythic Path Abilities as well. Who doesn't want a climb speed of 80-100?
He has the speed, climbing ability, and acrobatics of a ninja plus the great AC and unarmed strike abilities in addition to being a great archer. I always picture him moving like the characters from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.
1: Starting level? Expected end level?
2: What does he mean by Ninja?
The Greensting Slayer is a magus archetype that gains sneak attack in a way and some very rogue like abilities.
I made a rogue/magus/arcane trickster that seems right up your alley--with the new content itd likely work better as slayer/magus/arcane trickster.
If he wants to a magical stealth based character then maybe an Archeologist bard is what he should look at. They do not get sneak attack but they have some very good spells that fit the ninja magic theme. Many of their spells deal with avoiding detection, illusion, enchantments and movement all things a magical ninja should be able to do. Between archeologist luck and heroism they are decent in combat. The also get rogue talents so that means you can get things like fast stealth. Someone able to turn invisible and move at 60’ per round is hard to catch. Throw in spells like nondetection and dimension door and they can infiltrate anywhere. Alter self allows them to change into other people. He also will have one of the best perception rolls in the game. Archeologists get a straight bonus to perception not the limited one rogues get.
This assumes he wants to focus more on the magical aspect than combat. If he wants to be a combat focused ninja with more limited magic an inquisitor is probably better. While the get some of the same spells many of them are focused more on investigation and have a more religious feel.
I made a rogue/magus/arcane trickster that seems right up your alley--with the new content itd likely work better as slayer/magus/arcane trickster.
Slayer/Magus/Trickster would take a whopping 6 levels of slayer and 4 levels of magus. That means you're not getting into AT until level 11. Waiting until 7th level with your standard wiz3/rogue3 is already hard enough.
Thanks again.
Since we don't know precisely what seems "ninja-ish" to him, nor how high level the campaign will reach, we're probably done.
Feel free to keep brainstorming. Also consider this a congratulatory fist bump and we can be done.
I have sent him and e-mail with a link to this forum thread.
If anyone has time to write up what their favored concept looks like at seventh level, that might be persuasive to him. He has done enough D&D and early (fewer books) Pathfinder to know how to read a character sheet well.
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I'm a big fan of the Dark Tapestry Oracle Mystery. You get some really debilitating spells, you get an armor effect that boosts your stealth, and you're a full caster class. Halflings make great ones and they get a huge bonus to their stealth skill from being small. The heavens mystery has a little less sneakiness, but being able to color spray high level opponents thanks to awesome display is pretty ninja.
I'm going to second the Oracle, especially with deafness. Go silent, and still spellcast.
Hmm
Here is another idea to focus more on spell casting, adapting the suggestion to use Magus. Focus on Charisma and Strength.
For his traits, use Armor Master and Magical Knack.
His first level feat is Noble Scion of War to use his Charisma modifier for initiative.
Start with four levels of Eldrich Scion Magus.
This provides Charisma-based spontaneous casting off the Magus spell list, a sufficient Eldrich Pool that doubles as an Arcane Pool, and the ability to start every combat benefiting from a thematic effect (blur, protection from arrows, resist energy, or spider climb). It retains Spellstrike and most of Spell Combat.
His third level Magus Arcana should be Flamboyant Arcana, and his level three feat is Extra Arcana to get Arcane Deed for the Swashbuckler deed "Precise Strike". Now he adds his Charisma bonus to damage!
At fifth level, enjoy the Divine Protection feat and take a single level dip of Divine Strategist Cleric with the Trickery domain. He can always act in a surprise round, gets disguise self daily, and Mirror Image as a spell-like ability. The new first-level Cleric spell weapon wand can fuse a wand of true strike or shocking grasp with his weapon, to reduce spell casting without investing in more Magus Arcana options.
At sixth level switch to Mystic Theurge using the early entry divine option through the Trickery Domain.
Now his Charisma modifier is helping his damage, initiative, all saving throws, Magus spell casting, and his Eldrich Pool. He needs Strength to hit and do yet more damage.
(Dexterity and Constitution help his defenses, but he is soon wearing a Mithril Breastplate and following the Barbarian's philosophy of "do so much damage they die first". Wisdom is not very important if he only uses his Cleric spells to buff and heal. Intelligence is not his strong point.)
Good points. Not sure how I misread Precise Strike this whole time.
Check out the profile for this character. It's a WIS/CHA based Oracle headed toward Zen Archer. He's only level 1, but as long as the build gets at least 3 levels of ZAM, he starts to be viable.