Thassilonian History


Rise of the Runelords


I've read a few old threads on this but haven't achieved much clarity:

I've researched a bunch of stuff on Thassilonia online and scanned the preparation chapters on the campaign, so I feel fairly well-versed in the Runelords' activities and have a decent idea of the Thassilonian Empire pre-Starfall.

But I'm not sure when and what to give the players in terms of info at any time. How much Quink knows, how much could be researched themselves.

If it ultimately doesn't matter then I would love Quink to be able to rattle on and on about the Runelords and their enmities and the various ruins that exist around Varisia, in the manner of an over-excitable college professor. But if this would undermine the actual campaign discoveries obvious that would be bad. Also a few times the AP will mention a Thassilonian fact that "no one living knows".

Any experience GMs have had disseminating the info would be great.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

I think that Quink is an invaluable NPC, not just for parties but also for GM's to use for exposition. I think the best way to do it would be to have hjim start off with some basic information, including some maverick theories that prove to be true and others that prove to be false. The PC's discoveries and explorations spur, refine and guide his research so that every time they make it back to Sandpoint he has some new tidbits for him - perhaps he even reaches them with a message at a crucial time with something he has just discovered that might provide a key insight.

So many tropes involve having a tech wizard, research assistant, forensic specialist back at base who offers insights as the mystery unfolds. That would seem to be the best way to use him, and he can offer up nudges when the PC's are stuck, misdirection when things are coming too easily and fill PC's in on all of the great backstory along the way..

In our campaign, he was eventually given custodianship over the discovered Library and he and the clockwork librarian going back and forth provided much amusement.


Yeah, it's a problem to understand how much Thassiloniaan lore GM can give to PC. It's true, that a lot of things about this empire is unknown, but I think it's because there aren't any coordinated effort to research Thassilon. I've made a bit of compilation on known and supposed Thassilonian monuments in and outside Varisia for my players, and do think that label of "unknown" is on Thassilon mostly because of indifference. People live alongside ruins all their life, but only one from ten thousand will be interested in its past.
PCs may know this or that ruin, by its exterior, as Thassilon one (runes and other stuff); that Thassilon was a mighty empire of past, ruled by a group of powerful wizards; that it possibly was brought down by Earthfall or something similar; that giants, varisians and shoanti where once slaves there, if stories of old are to be believed. And they must know the location of known monuments (like Hollow Mountain, Storwall Stairs and Rise, Emerald Chambers...).


A little bit of what is known gets clear in the 2nd chapter of RotRL:

Spoiler:
Brodert Quink tells the PCs something about the Sihedron rune in the 2nd chapter, when the rune is discovered on the victim in the sawmill. p75/76 in the anniversary edition.
The necromancer in the asylum is a thassilonian specialist, so this could be another source, even if this is not adressed as such.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Okay. From what I recall, this is what's "commonly" known about Thassilon. Not all of this information is correct, mind you, but it's what people who have been poking about ruins have tried to piece together.

Thassilon was one of the first Empires to arise after the Starfall, around 5,000-6,000 years ago. Some unknown magical calamity caused it to fall and all its inhabitants died. It was created by some great wizard named Xin and seven other wizard-lords, and the practitioners utilized Virtue Magic, with each school of magic (outside of Divination) as the specialty of one of those Wizard Lords. They built great buildings and works that have ancient magics still within them that help keep these items from decaying completely.

Quink is considered a crackpot because he believes the Lighthouse that is at the edge of Sandpoint was in fact once a great weapon of war instead of a lighthouse.

-------

The truth is that Thassilon was founded by exiles from the first great Human civilization back 10,000 years ago, it was filled with strife with various factions fighting and sometimes warring with one another, and that the same Starfall that destroyed the first great human civilization also destroyed Thassilon. Oh, and the Lighthouse was indeed a weapon of war. ;) But none of the scholars studying Thassilon know this.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Really, Quink et al are just there as a tool of the you to pass whatever information on to the PCs that you feel is appropriate to your campaign. In my game, I gave some information out through Quink, but left some of the details vague and some others outright incorrect. Once the players discovered the Thassilonian library under Jorganfist, that changed and information on Thassilon became a firehose, with so many details, they've had to be careful in parsing it all. Some details are important, while others are just cool tidbits that aren't particularly helpful in-game.

-Skeld


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I will echo Skeld - tailor your approach to your player's interest level. The AP is written with the basic premise that Thassilon is barely understood by all but a few strange specialists and even among the so-called experts (such as Quink) there is quite a bit of misinformation and ignorance.

If your players will enjoy putting pieces of the backdrop story together on their own and even showing both Quink and other experts that what they think they know is wrong, then I suggest you leave them in the dark until they discover answers for themselves. If on the other hand such elements about the campaign backdrop tend to bore them, then use Quink to help resolve any "what do we do next?" conundrums.

If you want a safe course - when the pc's start the campaign, they don't know nothin' about Thassilon. Don't let anyone take the language, don't let them use Knowledge History checks to find info (or make the DC's really high) etc. Force them to relate to Quink and get info that way. And as they explore various locations, let them see that even Quink doesn't really know what he thinks he knows.

Spoiler:
In some ways, the pc's even by the end of Book 1 are becoming Varisia's newest Thassilon experts given they've explored actual and functional Thassilon ruins. Both the Cathedral and Thistletop are actively inhabited spaces with residents who date from the age of Thassilon. At some point in exploring Thistletop , the pc's hear the language in the actual voice of a Runelord. Way more exposure than any other "expert."


Food for thought -

My players really like Brodert Quink, and towards the end (starting with the library in chapter 4) the players gain access to their own ways of researching Thassilon. There was an interesting encounter where my players asked him for help finding Runeforge but ended up learning that they now are Thassilonian experts themselves thanks to their adventures!! It was a pretty cool moment that really let the players feel like mighty adventurers/explorers - the guy that used to be their go-to for knowledge is now asking them for their input as well! They even ended up agreeing to escort Quink to the library after they deal with Karzoug and he literally wept with joy at the idea.

One of my players loves being the "book smart" character and always goes out of his way to research and learn what he can so it probably hinged a lot on him as well, though.

So my point is - don't just leave your players in the dark to slow the story down, purposely keep information hidden from them for them to uncover themselves later.

The big exception to that is learning Thassilonian. Your players should show an interest in learning Thassilonian in book 2- make sure they have a way to learn it - otherwise there will be a serious language barrier between the NPCs in book 5 and your PCs that will hurt any possible roleplay with those characters. I wouldn't go so far as to let a fresh character get the language from leveling up, I'd still make them go through Quink (or some other teacher) but keep the opportunity available to them.


The major problem is that most information in the books and online were published after RotRL when people discovered Xin-Shalast was a real place. Before RoTRL, peopel didn't know hardly anything about it. AFterwrads, there was a boom in information, and we learned about hook mountain, and about Xin, and about all that stuff.

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Mavrickindigo wrote:
The major problem is that most information in the books and online were published after RotRL when people discovered Xin-Shalast was a real place. Before RoTRL, peopel didn't know hardly anything about it. AFterwrads, there was a boom in information, and we learned about hook mountain, and about Xin, and about all that stuff.

Once the players discover the Thassilonian Library under Jorganfist, nearly all of that information about the life and times of Thassilon should be open to the players. Obviously, anything after Earthfall should be off-limits, but the rest of the history should be, almost literally, an open book.

One thing I did to stifle my players a bit was to tell them that all the maps of Thassilon had been contained in a portion of the library that had been damaged by fire. Without a map, they can't look up exact geographic positions for things like Xin-Shalast.

-Skeld


Thassilonian information is weird.

Even as a GM, I have no idea what information is "common" and what isn't. And I have no idea what counts as "language", since two of my players speak Thassilonian and I had to tell them the Sihedron wasn't a letter, nor were the runes around it. Hell, I couldn't even tell them what was written on the walls of the Cathedral in the Catacombs of Wrath.

But yeah, I sort of make it up as I go.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Askren wrote:

Thassilonian information is weird.

Even as a GM, I have no idea what information is "common" and what isn't. And I have no idea what counts as "language", since two of my players speak Thassilonian and I had to tell them the Sihedron wasn't a letter, nor were the runes around it. Hell, I couldn't even tell them what was written on the walls of the Cathedral in the Catacombs of Wrath.

But yeah, I sort of make it up as I go.

The Sihedron is actually a Holy (although technically, since Lissala is Lawful Evil, it might be more accurate to say unHoly) Symbol.

It would take a knowledge (Arcana) check to recognize the symbols around it, each of which is associated with a particular School of Arcane Magic.

Linguistics wouldn't necessarily help any more than being able to read & write English helps to understand what a Cross or Crescent or Ohm symbol are supposed to represent.

As far as what was written on the walls of the Cathedral. Pretty much what you would expect to be written on the walls of a place that has only had one, insane, resident for approximately ten thousand years.
Insane rantings.
About everything.
If you have the opportunity, read through the classic 'A Canticle for Leibowitz', that can give you an idea. Not to say that the characters in that were insane, just that after massive amounts of time, things that made perfect sense then don't necessarily make much if any now.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Askren wrote:
Even as a GM, I have no idea what information is "common" and what isn't.

List of all known (major or not - your choice) monuments in Varisia (and outside it - again, your choice). Storval Rise, Floating Sphere of Mulfrey, Emerald Chambers, Hollow Mountain, Skull Crossing... The monuments that are too obvious to be ignored, must be long ago identified as Thassilon one (but not carefully studied).

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Askren wrote:

Thassilonian information is weird.

Even as a GM, I have no idea what information is "common" and what isn't. And I have no idea what counts as "language", since two of my players speak Thassilonian and I had to tell them the Sihedron wasn't a letter, nor were the runes around it. Hell, I couldn't even tell them what was written on the walls of the Cathedral in the Catacombs of Wrath.

But yeah, I sort of make it up as I go.

It's exactly that way for GM Fiat, so that the GM can give out whatever information is needed at the time it's needed, without running the risk of players learning something important too early (because of a good roll or whatever) and attempting to short-circuit part of the adventure.

-Skeld

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Rise of the Runelords / Thassilonian History All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rise of the Runelords
Ruining Rise of the Runelords