Not gonna lie inquisitor is my favorite class. While it was always good the Fate's Favored Trait made it a lot better. Also I really dig the ACG archetypes.
Where do you get the luck bonus for that trait from though?
Would be awesome if it was a morale bonus, cause then you could use it with heroism.
Where do you get the luck bonus for that trait from though?
Would be awesome if it was a morale bonus, cause then you could use it with heroism.
Divine Favor gives a luck bonus
you gain a +1 luck bonus on attack and weapon damage rolls for every three caster levels you have (at least +1, maximum +3)
Divine Power also.
Ah.
The thing about the Sanctified Slayer is that it's both a great archetype and a not so great one. I've never played it, but maybe someone could tell me if they've reliably in combat gotten the sneak attacks off.
SA is a bonus, not a class feature. And with the right teamwork feat and/or spells you can get it easier than most people, if you so desire. Studied target is pretty much equal to judgement, because you can spam it all day. If you run longer adventuring days then this gets even more amazing. The SA is just a bonus, and maybe makes the archetype better than base inquisitor.
Both ACG archetypes are AWESOME for the inquisitor!
Ravingdork, are you putting Menacing an Amulet of Mighty Fists?
If you don't need your neck slot, that can save you some cash/free up room for real weapon enchants.
Pretty sure it doesn't work unless you're attacking with the menacing weapon in question.
Pretty sure it doesn't work unless you're attacking with the menacing weapon in question.Ravingdork, are you putting Menacing an Amulet of Mighty Fists?
If you don't need your neck slot, that can save you some cash/free up room for real weapon enchants.
Actually, no... Unless there has been an stealth errata, you just need to be wielding it and adjacent to the flanked opponent. You don't even have to be the one flanking.
To wield a weapon, you must attack with it.
That... Makes no sense.
You have to attack to be wielding an weapon... But you can't attack if you're not wielding an weapon in the first place. So, by SKR's logic here, it's impossible to attack.
Seems like one of those instances where someone misinterpret the rules on purpose because they think something is too good (or weak).
And of course, there is this:
To wield a weapon, you must attack with it.Well, it looks like SKR, disagrees with SKR.
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To wield a weapon, you must attack with it.That... Makes no sense.
Welcome to the d20 system.
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Welcome to the d20 system.To wield a weapon, you must attack with it.That... Makes no sense.
Am I able to use both my metaphorical hands to start a slow clap for this if I also happen to be wielding a dagger in my third hand gained through class features?
Welcome to the d20 system.To wield a weapon, you must attack with it.That... Makes no sense.
What I mean is that it doesn't make sense even within the context of the rules. I honestly SKR was just trying to pseudo-errata Menacing enhancement with a conscious misinterpretation of the rules.
Made its way into the FAQ system too.
That one makes sense. You have to use an item to gain its benefits. What didn't make sense on SKR's post was the idea that "you must attack with an weapon to wield it", since that would make it impossible to attack anything.
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Made its way into the FAQ system too.
That has nothing to do with wielding, but only how that particular enchantment functions.
I expect a similar FAQ/Errata for Menacing, but that does not change the rules on wielding.
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Actually, it does, because "you have to use a magic item in the manner it is designed (use a weapon to make attacks...to gain its benefits."
Since a Menacing weapon is a magic item, you must use it to make attacks in order to gain its benefits.
That one makes sense. You have to use an item to gain its benefits. What didn't make sense on SKR's post was the idea that "you must attack with an weapon to wield it", since that would make it impossible to attack anything.
Can you quote me that? I went looking and all I found was this.
With a normal melee weapon, you can strike any opponent within 5 feet.
No mention of having to wield the weapon.
Can you quote me that? I went looking and all I found was this.
With a normal melee weapon, you can strike any opponent within 5 feet.No mention of having to wield the weapon.
It doesn't mention you have to be holding an weapon either, so I guess all characters have telekinesis.
And...Since that FAQ only applies to Defending enhancement and SKR's post is not a FAQ or errata, simply wielding a Menacing weapon without attacking still works.
Well... Either you have to wield and weapon to attack (so SKR's post makes no sense)... Or your only limitation to attack with melee weapon is targeting an opponent 5ft. away from you... You don't even have to be holding that weapon.
Is the Menacing property really so strong that it warrants a completely nonsensical ruling?
If I have a sword on my hands, and am using my best combat instance, am I not wielding my weapon?
This thread should be about the awesomeness that is the inquisitor and not about menacing shenaigans.
Anyways I'm happy about the sacred huntsmaster cause now I can finally build a single class Amplified Rager...
Also I agree with those arguing that Sneak attack is merely a free gimick for the sanctified slayer. Studied target while not quite judgement seems a fair replacement.
4th level build idea
Thanks to you and the others who took the time to put up a 4th level build for me. I am now convinced that there is more to the class than I first thought. I will be keen to try out a build.
I think the Sanctified Slayer in particular interests me. I would appreciate any advice for a build that includes this archetype. It will be for PFS play and I have access to Oread and Tiefling in addition to the standard available races.
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This thread should be about the awesomeness that is the inquisitor and not about menacing shenaigans.
Anyways I'm happy about the sacred huntsmaster cause now I can finally build a single class Amplified Rager...
Also I agree with those arguing that Sneak attack is merely a free gimick for the sanctified slayer. Studied target while not quite judgement seems a fair replacement.
Huh. I hadn't thought about it, but that archetype is actually better than I thought it was.
Not only do you get a bunch of cool things that come along with your companion, but you get Share Spells, which means you can cast things like Divine Power... on your animal companion. Hm...
The strongest race for an inquisitor is half orc. Humans run a close second due to the alternative favored class bonus, but a half orc also has access to the human favored class bonus so in the end they come out ahead. Getting proficiency in falchion and great axe allows them to pick a deity with a less then optimal favored weapon and still have a good melee weapon. They are also the only ones with access to the feat Ferocious Resolve.
For the most part the build I posted earlier would work well as a sacred slayer. Who was the deity you chose? Also what did you want the focus of the character to be? Losing the healing judgment means you no longer have a way to automatically heal yourself so make sure you get cure light wounds as one of your 1st level spells.
To get back to the original question, I just started a new PFS inquisitor for the very versatility reasons addressed above:
PFS has lots of social encounters, knowledge checks, and non-combat components vital to success. I've played scenarios without true combat, but I've played others without any RP.
An inquisitor can contribute to all of them.
P.S. The Tier thing has been around a while, and a quick search of the advice thread will give you plenty of reading material. An Example
For the most part the build I posted earlier would work well as a sacred slayer. Who was the deity you chose? Also what did you want the focus of the character to be?
I have no answers to those questions as I'm starting from a blank canvass. All ideas welcome.
I checked out Ferocious Resolve and it looks ok without being amazing since you are still staggered and bleeding 1 hp per round.
back to the original question, I would like to make the point that the inquisitor is very good at combining multiple and fairly different capabilities.
I often have people say things like:
I want to be a primary damage dealer, but not too much of a glass cannon, needs to be able to keep up with the scout (if not the primary scout) without alerting everyone, no one else will play the party face so I will need to cover that also.
Inquisitor is one of the best classes for doing things like this.
If you are going to super specialize (I just want to hit things) it isn't the best.
Ferocious Resolve is great for someone who can heal themselves. Any Magical healing stops the bleeding. It works really well if you have judgment of healing going. Without that you would need to use a healing spell which was why I suggested making sure you have cure light wounds. If you are unconscious you can’t heal yourself.
With an inquisitor you need to pick your deity because it determines what domains and weapons you can use. The inquisitor gets proficiency with the favored weapon of the deity. You already have proficiency with most ranged weapons and simple weapons. Unless you are going for a race that gets proficiency in a good melee weapon you need to either go with a ranged weapon, or pick a deity with a good favored weapon. The half orc gets proficiency with the falchion and great axe which is another reason they make good inquisitors.
If you want to be the party face then either the conversion or heresy inquisitions are good. Conversion allows you to use your WIS modifier instead of CHA modifier for bluff, diplomacy and intimidate, and grants a short term dominate person at 8th level. Heresy allows you to use your WIS modify for bluff and intimidate, but not diplomacy, but at 4th you get to roll twice for bluff, diplomacy, or stealth and take the better results. Heresy also allows you to use a short term bestow curse at 8thlevel.
Sanctified slayer gives up judgments for studied target and later sneak attack. I would think carefully about giving up judgments. Judgments are a lot more versatile than sneak attack, and getting sneak attack is often difficult. If you are more concerned with fighting a lot of weaker opponents over the course of the day, then studied target may be better. If you are expecting to face a few big challenges with lots of different abilities judgments are a lot better.
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The strongest race for an inquisitor is half orc. Humans run a close second due to the alternative favored class bonus, but a half orc also has access to the human favored class bonus so in the end they come out ahead. Getting proficiency in falchion and great axe allows them to pick a deity with a less then optimal favored weapon and still have a good melee weapon. They are also the only ones with access to the feat Ferocious Resolve.
Half-orc inquisitors don't get Falchion or great axe because they are martial weapons for half-orcs, and inquisitors don't get martial weapon proficiency.
I would also argue that giving up judgments makes your inquisitor far less flexible. Judgments do much more than just dealing extra damage. Fast healing, aligned weapons, overcoming spell resistance, and AC bonus are just some of the abilities judgment gives you. This is the defining characteristic of the Inquisitor class because it lets you adapt to any situation.
Don't forget inquisitors are the only class to get repeating crossbow proficiency, effectively wiping out all the negatives for a heavy crossbow.
Half-orc inquisitors don't get Falchion or great axe because they are martial weapons for half-orcs, and inquisitors don't get martial weapon proficiency.
Incorrect. All half-orcs are proficient with Falchion and great axes. Its weapons that have "orc" in their name that count as martial proficiency and Half-orc inquisitors would not be proficient with.
The strongest race for an inquisitor is half orc. Humans run a close second due to the alternative favored class bonus, but a half orc also has access to the human favored class bonus so in the end they come out ahead. Getting proficiency in falchion and great axe allows them to pick a deity with a less then optimal favored weapon and still have a good melee weapon. They are also the only ones with access to the feat Ferocious Resolve.Half-orc inquisitors don't get Falchion or great axe because they are martial weapons for half-orcs, and inquisitors don't get martial weapon proficiency.
This is not quite correct. Half-orcs are automatically proficient with the falchion and the greataxe, but treat any weapon with "orc" in the title as a martial weapon. A half-orc wizard can pick up a greataxe and use it with proficiency.
Weapon Familiarity: Half-orcs are proficient with greataxes and falchions and treat any weapon with the word “orc” in its name as a martial weapon.
Don't forget inquisitors are the only class to get repeating crossbow proficiency, effectively wiping out all the negatives for a heavy crossbow.
I really wouldn't say proficiency with repeating crossbows "wipes out" the negatives of crossbows. Once you've fired your five bolts (which takes between one and three rounds depending on your level and how soon you pick up Rapid Shot) you're stuck with a full-round reload delay. Generally speaking you're better off using a light crossbow with rapid reload once you hit ~level 5 if not sooner.
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Half-orc inquisitors don't get Falchion or great axe because they are martial weapons for half-orcs, and inquisitors don't get martial weapon proficiency.
This is not quite correct. Half-orcs are automatically proficient with the falchion and the greataxe, but treat any weapon with "orc" in the title as a martial weapon. A half-orc wizard can pick up a greataxe and use it with proficiency.
Weapon Familiarity: Half-orcs are proficient with greataxes and falchions and treat any weapon with the word “orc” in its name as a martial weapon.Don't forget inquisitors are the only class to get repeating crossbow proficiency, effectively wiping out all the negatives for a heavy crossbow.I really wouldn't say proficiency with repeating crossbows "wipes out" the negatives of crossbows. Once you've fired your five bolts (which takes between one and three rounds depending on your level and how soon you pick up Rapid Shot) you're stuck with a full-round reload delay. Generally speaking you're better off using a light crossbow with rapid reload once you hit ~level 5 if not sooner.
Reading comprehension fail on my part on the proficiencies. When something wrong gets stuck in my head, my brain skips over contradictory information in text. Sigh.
And regarding the repeating crossbows, it negates (almost all) the penalties on the heavy crossbow. Instead of a full-round action after every shot, you only have to take a full-round action after 5 shots. That makes the d10 damage worth it, especially if you can use a wand of Gravity Bow to get 2d8. Couple that with Vital Strike, and you get a single shot at 4d8 at your highest attack bonus for 5 rounds. That sure helps overcoming DR, especially combined with judgments.
Reading comprehension fail on my part on the proficiencies. When something wrong gets stuck in my head, my brain skips over contradictory information in text. Sigh.
No worries, I do the exact same thing. :)
And regarding the repeating crossbows, it negates (almost all) the penalties on the heavy crossbow. Instead of a full-round action after every shot, you only have to take a full-round action after 5 shots. That makes the d10 damage worth it, especially if you can use a wand of Gravity Bow to get 2d8. Couple that with Vital Strike, and you get a single shot at 4d8 at your highest attack bonus for 5 rounds. That sure helps overcoming DR, especially combined with judgments.
If the inquisitor has access to Vital Strike he's at level 8, meaning he has a BAB of +6, or two attacks baseline. With Rapid Shot and haste that turns into +5/+5/+5/+0 before attack bonuses, which an inquisitor should have plenty of. I'd rather take four shots a round with a light crossbow at -2 hitting for 2d6+x instead of a single vital shot shot of 4d8+x. Skipping Vital Strike balances out the cost of Rapid Reload, you're less screwed over by miss chances, and the destruction judgement & bane has fantastic synergy with volley fire.
The problem with crossbows is that ranged combat feats rely primarily on making as many attacks as possible - manyshot and rapid shot are good examples of this. The crossbow's inability to make full attacks without investing feats puts it a bit behind the longbow, and the repeating crossbow exasperates this since as well as proficiency (which is rare) it needs two feats (RR & Crossbow Mastery) to become a free action reload.
This is especially noticeable on inquisitors and smiting paladins, which benefit massively from making as many attacks as possible with a single weapon since they add large modifiers to each attack - the inquisitor from Judgement and Bane, the paladin from Smite Evil and (potentially) Divine Bond.
He can even be a very SAD class because of guided hand feat and other stuff.
Isn't the ability to channel energy a prerequisite for Guided Hand? Inquisitors can't channel energy. Can they?
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Reading comprehension fail on my part on the proficiencies. When something wrong gets stuck in my head, my brain skips over contradictory information in text. Sigh.No worries, I do the exact same thing. :)
And regarding the repeating crossbows, it negates (almost all) the penalties on the heavy crossbow. Instead of a full-round action after every shot, you only have to take a full-round action after 5 shots. That makes the d10 damage worth it, especially if you can use a wand of Gravity Bow to get 2d8. Couple that with Vital Strike, and you get a single shot at 4d8 at your highest attack bonus for 5 rounds. That sure helps overcoming DR, especially combined with judgments.If the inquisitor has access to Vital Strike he's at level 8, meaning he has a BAB of +6, or two attacks baseline. With Rapid Shot and haste that turns into +5/+5/+5/+0 before attack bonuses, which an inquisitor should have plenty of. I'd rather take four shots a round with a light crossbow at -2 hitting for 2d6+x instead of a single vital shot shot of 4d8+x. Skipping Vital Strike balances out the cost of Rapid Reload, you're less screwed over by miss chances, and the destruction judgement & bane has fantastic synergy with volley fire.
The problem with crossbows is that ranged combat feats rely primarily on making as many attacks as possible - manyshot and rapid shot are good examples of this. The crossbow's inability to make full attacks without investing feats puts it a bit behind the longbow, and the repeating crossbow exasperates this since as well as proficiency (which is rare) it needs two feats (RR & Crossbow Mastery) to become a free action reload.
This is especially noticeable on inquisitors and smiting paladins, which benefit massively from making as many attacks as possible with a single weapon since they add large modifiers to each attack - the inquisitor from Judgement and Bane, the paladin from Smite Evil and (potentially) Divine Bond.
Ah, I see your point. In the past, I have played a more sneak-oriented Inquisitor, with a couple levels of Rogue to qualify for Rogue Crawl and Evasion. Sniping while prone requires a crossbow.
Manyshot also works with the repeating crossbow, although you need another feat, Clustered Shots, to deal with DR. With Vital Strike, that's only one feat to help with DR vs two to fire multiples against DR.
I like to use poison on my ranged attacks, so a -2 to accuracy for Manyshot often means I miss the target and waste a dose. Focusing all my effort into making that shot hit is what matters to me. The repeating crossbow gives me the benefit of the higher damage and saving me reload time by making it once every 5 rounds. In addition and if you have the money, repeating crossbows actually work with the Endless Ammunition magical enhancement, whereas my GM ruled it does nothing for regular crossbows.
Is a bow more ideal than a crossbow? Certainly. Even Sean K. Reynolds admits on his blog that focusing on realism with the crossbow broke the flexibility and fun element.
The heavy repeating crossbow works well with a sneaky sniping inquisitor. It's not ideal for all builds, but that is what makes the Inquisitor so flexible. You can be whatever you want to be.
Manyshot only works with bows, but I'm reasonably sure you mean Rapid Shot? It's true that RS works with the repeating crossbow, but if you're firing at full rate you'll run into the full round reload really fast.
That said, sneaky sniping inquisitor sounds like a fun character to play. :)
I found the SKR blog really encouraging, and I do think the crossbow is undergoing something of a reassessment by the Pathfinder team.
I'm not sure if you've seen the Bolt Ace from the ACG, but it's the first take on a class using the crossbow that I think makes it a genuinely good weapon compared to guns and longbows. =D
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Bolt Ace is pretty cool, but I'm not really a fan of pure martial classes. I enjoy having some flexibility. (Of the full BAB classes, Slayer and Cavalier are the most interesting to me.)
If you want to make a sneaky, sniping inquisitor that uses poison, dipping into Rogue for 3 levels as a Poisoner + Toxicological Timing + Improved Toxicological Timing + (optionally, Poison Focus) lets you convert any poison into any other, change the onset time down to 1 round, and change the frequency down to one round (even from a day!). All your poisons are +1 DC, and you can make them all injury (or inhaled for added fun) including the powerful and cheap ingested ones like Oil of Taggit.
Bonus feat if you are a dwarf: Brewmaster to increase the DC of injested poisons by 1 and then convert to whatever type you need.
Poisons are finally viable when crafted at 33% of cost and converted from a powerful, cheap (but slow acting) to a one round onset.
Put Endless Ammunition on your repeating crossbow and never reload again.
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Studied target vs judgement is a tough call.
Studied target can be used any number of times per day, judgment has a limit.
Judgment is faster to activate and applies against all foes. Studied target is a move action and applies to a single target but eventually multiple enemies).
Studied Target provides several bonuses against each target studied. Judgements provide a single bonus that can be switched and eventually can apply more than one bonus.
Sneak Attack is not very hard to do unless you play rocket tag or have an uncooperative party. Sneak attack should typically be relevant in most combats.
Slayer Talents add additional flexibility to build design and general options. I think that sneak attack + slayer talents + studied target are more than a fair trade for judgments.
You're trading one kind of flexibility for another. They both are different sets of combat flexibility, too. Several skill bonuses, attack, damage, immediate activation off a sneak attack, swift action activation at 7, sneak attack damage, Saving throw DC increases for class abilities and slayer talents vs:
Saving throw bonus, fast healing, attack bonus, damage bonus, spell penetration bonus, ac bonus, damage reduction, energy resistance and penetrating Dr.
Sounds like a good mix between both.
I want to say that a 7th level Sanctified Slayer can use Studied Target as a swift action the way a 7th level Slayer can, but honestly I'm not sure if "At 1st level, a sanctified slayer gains the slayer's studied target class feature. She uses her inquisitor level as her effective slayer level to determine the effects of studied target" includes the better activation time.
The phrasing is somewhat ambiguous, but it seems like a reasonable ruling that it does.