Advice for Blaster Cleric build


Advice


Long version:

There are 5 of us, 1 DM, 4 players and we play 2 rotating campaigns (every other week). I DM one, and play in the other. In the current (almost finished) other campaign I am playing a cleric, which I enjoy, but I really wanted to play a blaster wizard in the next one. However the person who was supposed to play the cleric changed to a witch, and now we are screwed because the other two characters are a vanilla fighter, and an archer ranger. I am thinking of playing me evoker/admixture wizard anyway but probably won't.

Short version - I am playing the cleric in our next campaign, and I really want to play a blaster type, spell casting only, minimal combat cleric.

I am thinking of taking the Theologian archetype and building a cleric of Sarenrae with the fire domain, and taking feats and traits to maximize fireball damage. With the Theologian, I can prepare domain spells in non-domain slots so I can load up on burning hands and fireball, and with the right meta-magic feats, keep them going to the mid-teens class levels.

The AP is Reign of Winter, so I am assuming most opponents will not have fire resistance.

After human racial adjustments and 20 point build:
str = dex = con = cha = 10
int = 13
wis = 20

traits:
magical lineage (fireball)
northern ancestry (campaign)

feat:
spell focus (evocation)
spell specialization (burning hands) - changing to fireball at 5th level
taking meta-magic feats going forward, empowered, maximize, quicken.

skill:
knowledge only

gear:
light armor, light crossbow, scimitar (used very infrequently)

Does this look viable? Is there a better way to do this?

-- david

Grand Lodge

Intensify spell will be one of your meta magics. I could also recommend a crossblooded sorc dip to add those extra damages from draconic and orc. You will make up that -2 will save from cross classing and having wisdom as your main stat. A 15d6 + 30 is very good damage. Putting more meta magics just makes it crazy good.


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I don't think many would agree with me, but I would seriously consider the ecclesitheurge with fire primary and healing secondary. That way you can still spontaneously cast (empowered) cures even when you've filled your slots with fireballs. I'm not totally sold on it, I'd really like to know what the blessing of the faithful was, but I think it's a good flavor and at least somewhat workable.


downlobot wrote:
I don't think many would agree with me, but I would seriously consider the ecclesitheurge with fire primary and healing secondary. That way you can still spontaneously cast (empowered) cures even when you've filled your slots with fireballs. I'm not totally sold on it, I'd really like to know what the blessing of the faithful was, but I think it's a good flavor and at least somewhat workable.

Dang !! That is a bloody nice archetype, and I believe exactly what I am looking for. Thanks!

-- david


The problem with Ecclesitheurge is that you can't wear any armor. Unless you're going Mystic Theurge, you might as well just play an arcane caster.

I'm playing a similar character in PFS. I think heighten spell/preferred spell are invaluable for this build. If you're going to fireball all your problems, these two feats give you Schrodinger's Fireballs--every spell slot is now three spells: Cure X Wounds, Fireball or Utility Spell of your choice.

1. Spell Focus, Spell Spec (Burning Hands/Fireball)
3. Heighten Spell
5. Preferred Spell: Fireball
7. Intensify Spell
9. Dazing Spell
11. Maximize Spell

Retraining feels a bit cheesy, but it's worthwhile to retrain spell focus/spell spec to jump the curve later on.

Lantern Lodge

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I know you said Cleric, but would you consider Oracle? I've got a Life Oracle with the Spirit Guide Archetype. He uses the Lore Spirit, and takes the Arcane Enlightenment Hex. He's an Emberkin Aasimar (+2 INT +2 CHA). He has the Blackened Curse. He takes the +1/2 Level for one revelation for his Channel revelation.

So...

1. Group healing-wise, he has plenty of channels 1+CHA mod, his channels are supercharged (because of the favored class bonus, at 6th level, he channels 5d6), he gets all Cure spells from being an Oracle, and his Oracle Mystery spells give him all the important Healing-type spells (e.g Lesser Restoration, Restoration, Neutralize Poison, Breath of Life, Heal, Greater Restoration, Mass Heal). Healing isn't going to be a problem, and relying on channels means he's got his spell slots for "other stuff".

2. From the Blackened Curse, he has Burning Hands, Scorching Ray, Flaming Sphere, Wall of Fire, and Delayed Blast Fireball (and a -4 to weapon attacks which doesn't matter as his primary weapon is a dagger). He also gets 4 Wizard spells (more as his CHA improves) up to 6th level spells from his Arcane Enlightenment which he can change day to day. At low level, he took Magic Missile, then Burning Arc, then Fireball, as must-haves, but can take other utility spells not normally available to clerics like see invisibility, knock, greater invisibility, etc. So he's got all the blaster spells he'd ever want.

3. He also gets the Lore Spirit spells, which have some goods ones, like Identify, Tongues, Locate Object, Vision, Moment of Prescience and TIME STOP.

4. AND he still has his Oracle spells known and many, many spell slots to cast.

5. I'm playing him as a pure spellcaster (like a wizard), but he can still wear armor and carry a shield if I want (I did at low level, but stopped at higher levels).

6. Feat-wise, I don't have him totally optimized as a blaster, but I have him moderately optimized:

1 Spell Focus [Evocation] (+1 DC Evocation)
3 Spell Specialization (L3-Magic Missile, L6-Burning Arc, L8-Fireball, etc.)
5 Divine Protection (+CHA Saving Throws)
7 Selective Channeling (Exclude targets up to CHA)
9 Greater Spell Focus [Evocation] (+1 DC Evocation)
11 Divine Interference
13 Spell Focus [Fire] (+1 DC Fire)
15 Greater Spell Focus [Fire] (+1 DC Fire)
17 Extra Channel (+2 Channel/day)
19 TBD

At level 3, you get 3d4+3 magic missile
At level 4, you get 6d6 burning arc with a DC17
At level 6, you get 8d6 fireball with a DC18
At level 15, you get 17d6 Delayed Blast Fireball with a DC26 (more if you have a CHA boosting item)

I plan to use metamagic rods to get Intensified Spell for fireballs.

You can easily re-do the feats to make him more of a blaster (the Level 5, 7 and 11 feats can be swapped out - though I'd keep the Level 5 Divine Protection), but I didn't bother in this case. My blaster builds usually include Magical Lineage [Fireball], Varisian Tattoo, metamagic feats and build to Spell Perfection at level 15 (using Quickened or Maximized as the free metamagic application). A sorceror or arcanist blaster build can also get a good bloodline arcana.

I was originally going to go Flame Spirit, but after some flip-flopping during the design phase (and partly for RP purposes) I finally chose to go Lore Spirit instead. The Blackened Curse decided the issue as it gives Delayed Blast Fireball.

BTW - He has a 16 INT, so gets 7 skill points per level, and gets all of the Knowledge skills from his Archetype. I had to take the Seeker Social Trait to get Perception, though.

He's actually a 25 point buy, but at 20 points, I'd make him:

STR 10
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 16
WIS 10
CHA 18

I noticed you went with a 10 CON, I personally like the hit points.

In any case, have fun!


Tranquilo wrote:

The problem with Ecclesitheurge is that you can't wear any armor. Unless you're going Mystic Theurge, you might as well just play an arcane caster.

I'm playing a similar character in PFS. I think heighten spell/preferred spell are invaluable for this build. If you're going to fireball all your problems, these two feats give you Schrodinger's Fireballs--every spell slot is now three spells: Cure X Wounds, Fireball or Utility Spell of your choice.

1. Spell Focus, Spell Spec (Burning Hands/Fireball)
3. Heighten Spell
5. Preferred Spell: Fireball
7. Intensify Spell
9. Dazing Spell
11. Maximize Spell

Retraining feels a bit cheesy, but it's worthwhile to retrain spell focus/spell spec to jump the curve later on.

nice one!

but why take "Intensify "? you get it for free for the 2 main spells via archtype.
i would take scribe scroll for those weird spells or cures


666bender wrote:


nice one!
but why take "Intensify "? you get it for free for the 2 main spells via archtype.
i would take scribe scroll for those weird spells or cures

Oops, I meant Empower, not intensify. Scribe scroll is banned in PFS unfortunately.

Captain Zoom, that is bleeding edge technology. That probably invalidates my cleric design, but at least I can retrain before level 1. The cool thing is that you can fit any mystery with this blaster chassis of blackened curse/spirit guide. The spirit guide archetype opens up tons of build possibilities.


Captain Zoom wrote:

I know you said Cleric, but would you consider Oracle? I've got a Life Oracle with the Spirit Guide Archetype. He uses the Lore Spirit, and takes the Arcane Enlightenment Hex. He's an Emberkin Aasimar (+2 INT +2 CHA). He has the Blackened Curse. He takes the +1/2 Level for one revelation for his Channel revelation.

Someone told me that Arcane Enlightenment doesn't work with Oracle. The hex add spells to the list of spells you can prepare, but Oracle doesn't prepare any spell.

Am I being lied to? Can I actually do it?

Dark Archive

Tranquilo wrote:
The problem with Ecclesitheurge is that you can't wear any armor. Unless you're going Mystic Theurge, you might as well just play an arcane caster.

Unless he wants to play a divine caster like say, a cleric blaster build- sort of like what is stated in the title.

I guess the problem with wizards and Sorcerors is also that they cannot wear any armor either. Funny how I don't hear anyone complain about this for them. Why does a full caster with better hit dice, saves and attack bonus than a wizard get considered bad because it can't wear armor when the wizard can't either?


Cleru wrote:


Someone told me that Arcane Enlightenment doesn't work with Oracle. The hex add spells to the list of spells you can prepare, but Oracle doesn't prepare any spell.

Good catch, RAW I don't think the trick works:

"The shaman can add a number of spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list equal to her Charisma modifier (minimum 1) to the list of shaman spells she can prepare."

Dark Immortal wrote:
I guess the problem with wizards and Sorcerors is also that they cannot wear any armor either. Funny how I don't hear anyone complain about this for them. Why does a full caster with better hit dice, saves and attack bonus than a wizard get considered bad because it can't wear armor when the wizard can't either?

Well, the Wizard has a better spell list--especially low level defensive spells like Mage Armor, Shield, Vanish, Mirror Image, etc so an ecclistheurge would seemingly make for a squishy caster.


I'd stick with 5 levels of theologian, and a level of crossblooded sorceror. Then, if you have the arcane sla (such as the half elf's drow magic), go into mystic theurge.

Lantern Lodge

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Cleru wrote:

Someone told me that Arcane Enlightenment doesn't work with Oracle. The hex add spells to the list of spells you can prepare, but Oracle doesn't prepare any spell.

Am I being lied to? Can I actually do it?

Good catch. I never noticed that. RAW it wouldn't work, so no PFS unless PFS issues a favorable ruling on it.

However, I doubt any of the GMs I normally play with would have a problem with working it out as the problem mainly crops up because you have a spontaneous caster class (Oracle) given an archetype that ports in an ability from a prepared caster class (Shaman), so it's not entirely surprising that there's going to be minor glitches in terms of the text making sense.

Another option (if your GM won't work it out with you and insists on RAW) would be to go with my alternate build which primarily swaps out the Lore Spirit in favor of the Flame Spirit. Less versatility, but still a powerful blaster.

Another small note about the build - while I plan to just stick with one Spirit for simplicity, in theory, you can change your Spirit every day. Adventuring underwater? Switch to Waves for the day!

A technical issue that I didn't resolve is whether the Spirit Guide must take a Hex from the selected Spirit, or if the general Shaman hexes are available. I never resolved the issue (though suspect you are limited to the ones provided specifically by the Spirit), but instead simply limited myself to the Spirit's hexes to avoid the issue. Another hex related issue is can you take Extra Hex? Again, I never resolved it, but I suspect not, and I simply avoided it by not taking the feat (so the question doesn't arise).


Tranquilo wrote:
The problem with Ecclesitheurge is that you can't wear any armor. Unless you're going Mystic Theurge, you might as well just play an arcane caster.

Read the "long version" spoiler. I wanted to play an arcane caster, but someone needs to have clerical skills, and if I don't then the group is screwed too many ways.

Also, I am playing an Oracle in the current campaign and don't want to get into a rut by playing another. Also, not interested in Mystic Theurge, even with the early entry ways of getting into it.

Thanks for the feat list, and the information on Preferred Spell. That I will have to look up.

The group as a whole is not a lot of min/max folks, which is why I came here to get some help on playing almost what I really would like to play.

-- david


If you want to blast and mainly use fire spells perhaps glorious heat might be a nice addition. Sure, it doesn't make you blast better but it gives your blasts additional benefits.
Even after having been nerfed for being exploited it is still not too bad.


I'd still take Elemental Spell (Acid). Gives you a fall back element.


What about the White Mage Arcanist? You'll probably need the Witch to be willing to cover some of the non-Curing spells, but you'll be able to use spontaneous healing pretty well. Then build as a blaster Arcanist.

EDIT: Just double-checked myself and forgot that Witches don't have some of the key spells either. This would mean you'd be dependent on purchased scrolls and wands, although with UMD on your list you could probably do this since you'd likely need some Charisma as a blaster anyway.


I second using an oracle. Choose Blackened Curse and/or Flame Mystery. You could choose both and while some spells would be redundant I would consider it acceptable if you really want to focus on fire.

You would retain spontaneous heals.

Shadow Lodge

A friend in my regular PFS group has a 9th level Theologian Cleric of Sarenrae (Fire Domain). It is very effective.
He stays useful with buffs/blasts, decent defenses, and passable melee capabilities when needed.

All around, a fun, useful archetype.


strayshift wrote:
I'd still take Elemental Spell (Acid). Gives you a fall back element.

ohhh... shiny....

Not quite as good as admixture evoker, but it is allowed for clerics. Thanks!!!!

-- david

Dark Archive

@tranquilo I am still not catching your point. Squishy casters aren't a problem, really. I have seen average HP 10 ac casters into the upper mid levels. Divine ones, even. I have seen plenty of arcane casters who didn't bother with mage armor or shield. They just ignored ac entirely and saved their energy and efforts for other things. I am not seeing how not being able to wear armor or increase ac is a defining factor unless it is part of the build.

And I will man up here. I didn't read his long version so had no idea he wanted to play an arcane cater. In that regard I guess I was wrong and you were much closer to being right.

Either way he can still use bracers of armor, sanctuary, shield of faith, ironbeard, defending bone, aid and summoned monsters or spells like hold person or burning disarm. It's not like he can't get ac or play like a squishy caster and keep enemies at bay if he wanted. Pilfering hand, shatter and burning disarm can keep enemies from hurting him at all.


Yea, not worried so much about AC, although Magic Vestment, and Shield of Faith on clothes works. In the every other week campaign that I run, the mage has next to no AC, and he survives fine.

Just looked at Preferred Spell. Now that is bloody nice also. Thank you for the tips.

-- david

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