Is having immunity to fatigue grant you immunity to the fatigue caused by rage and bloodrage?

[legolizard]

So this question has come up several times. Most recently when I noticed that Androids (who as constructed humanoids are immune to fatigue and exhaustion) are able to get the feat empathy that allows them to gain morale bonuses.

This means that a level 1 android barbarian with the empathy feat is not subject to rage and bloodrage's main drawback.

To me it seems that it is pretty clear that Androids would not suffer from fatigue after raging like this, but many people disagree.

They say that the fatigue from the rage is something brought on by the character and is not something you can bypass.

Just wanted to get some clarification on this.

[Jeff Merola]

Immunity to fatigue is immunity to the fatigue from raging.

[Choon]

The ability to "rage cycle" granted by feat immunity is the cornerstone of many varied barbarian builds.

[Zhayne]

legolizard wrote:

This means that a level 1 android barbarian with the empathy feat is not subject to rage and bloodrage's main drawback.

...

That is AWESOME.

Where can this feat be found? I'm assuming the Technology Guide?

[Scythia]

Does immunity to fatigue make you immune to fatigue? Wow.

As a philosophical discussion, that could have potential. As a rules question, it is about as cut and dried as you can get. Yes, being immune to fatigue prevents you from gaining the fatigued condition from any source that would normally apply it. Just like immunity to fire prevents even magical fire damage, and immunity to poison prevents even really venomous snakes from poisoning you.

[Belabras]

Androids are immune to Morale Bonuses. That means they don't get a thing from Rage or Bloodrage.

So their fatigue immunity is good, but you've got a feat tax before you can rage cycle with it.

[Zathyr]

The fatigue is rage's main drawback? The only time I ever found it to be an issue at any of my games was if a fight ran really long in the early levels.

[Chaotic Fighter]

It's the main drawback because it keep you from using once per rage powers multiple times in one fight.

[legolizard]

Zhayne wrote:

legolizard wrote:

This means that a level 1 android barbarian with the empathy feat is not subject to rage and bloodrage's main drawback.

...

That is AWESOME.

Where can this feat be found? I'm assuming the Technology Guide?

Its in the people from the stars and the fires of creation. Its called empathy.

[legolizard]

Belabras wrote:

Androids are immune to Morale Bonuses. That means they don't get a thing from Rage or Bloodrage.

So their fatigue immunity is good, but you've got a feat tax before you can rage cycle with it.

But as I mentioned, the feat "Empathy" that androids can take allows them to gain morale bonuses at the cost of the fear immunity.

[legolizard]

Scythia wrote:

Does immunity to fatigue make you immune to fatigue? Wow.

As a philosophical discussion, that could have potential. As a rules question, it is about as cut and dried as you can get. Yes, being immune to fatigue prevents you from gaining the fatigued condition from any source that would normally apply it. Just like immunity to fire prevents even magical fire damage, and immunity to poison prevents even really venomous snakes from poisoning you.

Seemed pretty cut and dry to me too. But SOOO many people I have mentioned this too are saying "I would still have you be effected by the rage fatigue because of reasons!"

I understand their concern but it seems for this case simply going by the rules I am in the minority.

[Scythia]

legolizard wrote:

Scythia wrote:

Does immunity to fatigue make you immune to fatigue? Wow.

As a philosophical discussion, that could have potential. As a rules question, it is about as cut and dried as you can get. Yes, being immune to fatigue prevents you from gaining the fatigued condition from any source that would normally apply it. Just like immunity to fire prevents even magical fire damage, and immunity to poison prevents even really venomous snakes from poisoning you.

Seemed pretty cut and dry to me too. But SOOO many people I have mentioned this too are saying "I would still have you be effected by the rage fatigue because of reasons!"

I understand their concern but it seems for this case simply going by the rules I am in the minority.

They're the ones in the minority. I can understand a DM feeling nervous about what seems like a too good rules conjunction, but pretending that immunity to something isn't really immunity to something is not a good way to go about handling an issue. That's the same sort of behaviour that leads to things like saying a fire immune character still takes damage from a dragon's breath, because it's "supernaturally hot", but really because the DM doesn't think the player should be immune.

If the fatigue immunity is an issue for a DM, they ought to ban androids, or the empathy feat, not try to torture "immunity" until it relents and converts to not really immunity.

[Claxon]

Honestly, rage cycle is nice, but not until you get to higher levels where you are likely to have the rage powers that are one per rage deals. It's great when you can use them every round, but personally I'd rather play a human so I can get my FCB to Superstition, and have a strength bonus.

The dex and int bonus isn't really great. I guess you could make a decent bowbarian if you make an Urban Barbarian...but I just don't see the appeal.

Especially when I can buy a cord of Stubborn Resolve for 15000 gp, assuming your GM will let you increase the ability score bonus and add strength to it as well. Or a level of lame cursed oracle at level 8.

[kadance]

I recommend requiring an un-raging round between uses of 1/rage powers.

[Paladin of Baha-who?]

Losing that first level feat is pretty big, though. You don't get power attack until 3rd, that's a significant reduction in the android barbarian's damage capability for those first two levels.

[chaoseffect]

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

Losing that first level feat is pretty big, though. You don't get power attack until 3rd, that's a significant reduction in the android barbarian's damage capability for those first two levels.

Is Empathy one of those "take at level 1 only" feats? If so yeah it could be a bit annoying Rage Cycling doesn't really become worth it until higher levels, but then again super low levels are horrible for everyone anyway.

[Scythia]

chaoseffect wrote:

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

Losing that first level feat is pretty big, though. You don't get power attack until 3rd, that's a significant reduction in the android barbarian's damage capability for those first two levels.

Is Empathy one of those "take at level 1 only" feats? If so yeah it could be a bit annoying Rage Cycling doesn't really become worth it until higher levels, but then again super low levels are horrible for everyone anyway.

Considering that without Empathy an Android cannot gain any of the + stats for using Rage, to not take it at 1st level on a single class Barbarian (or Bloodrager) would make the primary ability of the class somewhat superfluous.

[Bandw2]

Belabras wrote:

Androids are immune to Morale Bonuses. That means they don't get a thing from Rage or Bloodrage.

So their fatigue immunity is good, but you've got a feat tax before you can rage cycle with it.

they can still rage and gain rage powers they just do not gain the stat bonuses.

honestly playing a chaotic android that malfunctions would be interesting to play.

[Snorter]

"DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!"
"DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!"
"LET ME SMASH IT WITH MY AXE, WILL ROBINSON!"

[Ashram]

chaoseffect wrote:

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

Losing that first level feat is pretty big, though. You don't get power attack until 3rd, that's a significant reduction in the android barbarian's damage capability for those first two levels.

Is Empathy one of those "take at level 1 only" feats? If so yeah it could be a bit annoying Rage Cycling doesn't really become worth it until higher levels, but then again super low levels are horrible for everyone anyway.

Only prereqs are Cha 13 and being an android. I'd actually think it would be pretty neat to have an android who starts as a barbarian, gains emotions, and have the first living emotion it experiences be near-uncontrollable anger.

[Chengar Qordath]

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

Losing that first level feat is pretty big, though. You don't get power attack until 3rd, that's a significant reduction in the android barbarian's damage capability for those first two levels.

On the other hand, depending on the bad guys you face, power attack can be overkill for a barbarian at level 1. If you're facing goblins with 6 hp, you really don't need to take your damage from 2d6+9 to 2d6+12.

[thejeff]

Bandw2 wrote:

Belabras wrote:

Androids are immune to Morale Bonuses. That means they don't get a thing from Rage or Bloodrage.

So their fatigue immunity is good, but you've got a feat tax before you can rage cycle with it.

they can still rage and gain rage powers they just do not gain the stat bonuses.

honestly playing a chaotic android that malfunctions would be interesting to play.

But you don't even get Rage Powers at level one, so there's really almost no point. Until they pay the feat tax.

[legolizard]

thejeff wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

Belabras wrote:

Androids are immune to Morale Bonuses. That means they don't get a thing from Rage or Bloodrage.

So their fatigue immunity is good, but you've got a feat tax before you can rage cycle with it.

they can still rage and gain rage powers they just do not gain the stat bonuses.

honestly playing a chaotic android that malfunctions would be interesting to play.

But you don't even get Rage Powers at level one, so there's really almost no point. Until they pay the feat tax.

Keep in mind that if you did not get the Empathy feat at first level you would be a level 1 barbarian that is unable to gain the morale bonuses from raging.

So even if fatigue immunity was not a factor, in order to be able to do use rage and bloodrage properly you would need to get the Empathy feat.

[thejeff]

legolizard wrote:

thejeff wrote:

Bandw2 wrote:

Belabras wrote:

Androids are immune to Morale Bonuses. That means they don't get a thing from Rage or Bloodrage.

So their fatigue immunity is good, but you've got a feat tax before you can rage cycle with it.

they can still rage and gain rage powers they just do not gain the stat bonuses.

honestly playing a chaotic android that malfunctions would be interesting to play.

But you don't even get Rage Powers at level one, so there's really almost no point. Until they pay the feat tax.

Keep in mind that if you did not get the Empathy feat at first level you would be a level 1 barbarian that is unable to gain the morale bonuses from raging.

So even if fatigue immunity was not a factor, in order to be able to do use rage and bloodrage properly you would need to get the Empathy feat.

Yeah, that was part of my point. The post I was replying to said you could still get the rage powers, so I was pointing out you didn't actually start with any of those.