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I already posted this on another thread, on one of those pages where it probably won't be seen, but I just got bored and figured I'd compare a couple of classes! There has been quite a bit of talk about how OP a double dip in AC Bonus would be between Monk/SFWarpriest; so I ran a comparison.
I created a level 15 Str/Dex/Con Sword and Board Fighter(vanilla), and pitted his stats against a level 15 Str/Dex/Wisdom Unarmed Monk(vanilla)/SFWarpriest. This does not include ANY feats, but does include Basic Necessary Gear, Class Abilities, and Race.
I gave them the same items of:
Cloak of Resistance +5
Belt of Physical Perfection +6
Ring of Deflection +5
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier
Special for the Fighter:
A +5 Weapon.
Amulet of Natural Armor +5
Full Plate +5
Heavy Steel Shield +5
Special for the Monk/SFWarpriest:
Amulet of Might Fists +5
Headband of Wisdom +6
Attribute gains for the Fighter and Monk/SFWarpriest:
+3 Str
Races for Fighter and Monk/SFWarpriest:
Human with a +2 to Str
Overall Stats for Fighter:
Str: 27(18 base), Dex: 22(16 base), Con: 18(12 base), Int: 13, Wis: 10, Cha: 7
225 HP, AC 47, Touch 21, Flat 42, Fort 18, Ref 16, Will 10
Attack of 33; Damage undoubtedly better than Monk, CMB 23, CMD 44
Breakdown of Stats:
Str: 16 Base Str + 2 Racial + 3 Attribute Gain + 6 Enhancement(belt)
Dex: 16 Base Dex + 6 Enhancement(belt)
Con: 12 Base Con + 6 Enhancement(belt)
HP: HD10+Con(4) -> 14 x 15 levels = 210 + 15 FCHPS = 225
AC 47: Base 10, Full Plate +5(14), Heavy Steel Shield +5(7), Amulet of Natural Armor +5(5), Ring of Deflection +5(5), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier(1), Dex of 22(5 Max)
Touch 21: Base 10, Dex of 22(5 Max), Ring of Deflection +5(5), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier(1)
Flat 42: Base 10, Full Plate +5(14), Heavy Steel Shield +5(7), Amulet of Natural Armor +5(5), Ring of Deflection +5(5), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier(1)
Fort 18: Base 9, Cloak of Resistance +5(5), Con 18(4)
Ref 16: Base 5, Cloak of Resistance +5(5), Dex 22(6)
Will 10: Base 5, Cloak of Resistance +5(5)
Melee Attack 33: BAB 15, Weapon +5, Weapon Specialization +5
Damage: Win
CMB 23: BAB 15, Str 27(8)
CMD 44: Base 10, BAB 15, Dodge and Deflect(5), Str 27+Dex 22(14)
Overall Stats for Monk/SFWarpriest:
Str: 27(18 base), Dex: 18(12 base), Con: 18(12 base), Int: 10, Wis: 22(16 base), Cha: 7
195 HP, AC 40, Touch 32, Flat 36, Fort 20, Ref 16, Will 22
Attack of 23; Damage undoubtedly worse than Fighter, CMB 18, CMD 37
Breakdown of Stats for Monk/SFWarpriest:
Str: 16 Base Str + 2 Racial + 3 Attribute Gain + 6 Enhancement(belt)
Dex: 12 Base Dex + 6 Enhancement(belt)
Con: 12 Base Con + 6 Enhancement(belt)
Wis: 12 Base Wis + 6 Enhancement(headband)
HP: HD8+Con(4) -> 14 x 15 levels = 210 + 15 FCHPS = 195
AC 40: Base 10, AC Bonus(Monk)(6), AC Bonus(SFWarpriest)(6), Ring of Deflection +5(5), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier(1), Dex of 18(4), Bracers of Armor +8(8)
Touch 32: Base 10, Dex of 18(4), Ring of Deflection +5(5), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier(1), AC Bonus(Monk)(6), AC Bonus(SFWarpriest)(6)
Flat 36: Base 10, AC Bonus(Monk)(6), AC Bonus(SFWarpriest)(6), Ring of Deflection +5(5), Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier(1), Bracers of Armor +8(8)
Fort 20: Base 11, Cloak of Resistance +5(5), Con 18(4)
Ref 16: Base 7, Cloak of Resistance +5(5), Dex 18(4)
Will 22: Base 11, Cloak of Resistance +5(5), Wis 22(6)
Melee Attack 23: BAB 10, AoMF +5
Damage: Lose
CMB 18: BAB 10, Str 27(8)
CMD 37: Base 10, BAB 10, Dodge and Deflect(5), Str 27+Dex 18(12)
Advantages of Fighter vs Monk/SFWarpriest beyond Stats:
Damage
Attack
Feat Choices and Number of Feats
AC/Flat
Versatility between Ranged and Melee
Can Multiclass for Bonus Feats/Styles(like MoMS Monk for Evasion and Styles)
LOTS of Feats
Weapon Versatility
Bypassing DR
+4 Will vs Fear
Advantages of Monk/SFWarpriest beyond Stats:
Cleric Spells and Domains(1 Minor 1 Major)
Touch AC
Will Save
Evasion or Blessed Fortitude + Miraculous Fortitude
MOMS for Styles
Free Two-Weapon Fighting(Flurry of Blows really)
Low-End Ki Pool for a few effects
+2 Saves vs Enchantment
Fervor
Channel Energy
This is pretty much what it comes down to. That Double-Up in AC Bonus for Monk/SFWarpriest doesn't really make a difference. I still don't see why anyone can call it "broken" or "wrong". I'm certainly not saying it'll stack before or after an Errata - I'm kind of in-between for that ruling anyways - I'm just showing that even if it does it is nowhere near broken. At low levels the Monk/SFWarpriest would be frontloaded with a lot of AC, but that's nothing a GM can't sweat off with some other creative handywork. It'd really be about the same AC as any other heavily armored(actually less) martial.
Enjoy and let me know if I left anything out that seems important in the comparison! Feel free to suggest a list of Feats for both, since I didn't do Feats as there are an abundance of options and I'm not 100% sure how to loadout a "Good" fighter. There is definitely the variable of the Monk/SFWarpriest using Monk Weapons instead of Unarmed, which would keep them at the same Attack but then they could acquire an Amulet of Natural Armor; Or a Fighter going with a 2H for even more damage, and giving up his +7 Shield bonus(and enchantments on the shield).
One of my monk players will likely take a few levels in warpriest for this very reason, but that doesn't concern me in the slightest since he already can't be hit by anything less than a natural 20 anyways.
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One of my monk players will likely take a few levels in warpriest for this very reason, but that doesn't concern me in the slightest since he already can't be hit by anything less than a natural 20 anyways.
LOL. That's about right. I'm sure a fellow Sorc or Wiz is casting Armor or Shield on him and he's using his Ki Pool(swift, 1 round duration)?
I'm sure you mess him up in others ways : P Have you done anything hilarious and/or embarrassing to him?
One of my monk players will likely take a few levels in warpriest for this very reason, but that doesn't concern me in the slightest since he already can't be hit by anything less than a natural 20 anyways.LOL. That's about right. I'm sure a fellow Sorc or Wiz is casting Armor or Shield on him and he's using his Ki Pool(swift, 1 round duration)?
I'm sure you mess him up in others ways : P Have you done anything hilarious and/or embarrassing to him?
I knocked him down once in ~10 sessions. In our last game, he punched a stone pillar while a wizard (who had already succeeded in running off the rest of the party) tried to slay/stop him with spells. Why was he punching a pillar? Because he could. The wizard ran out of spell slots. Then the monk started punching the wizard until he fell down.
It was the most ridiculous in-game combat I've ever seen. And that's just with a fighter/MoMS monk multiclass character. Power builds are already far beyond the curb. This archetype won't change a thing.
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One of my monk players will likely take a few levels in warpriest for this very reason, but that doesn't concern me in the slightest since he already can't be hit by anything less than a natural 20 anyways.LOL. That's about right. I'm sure a fellow Sorc or Wiz is casting Armor or Shield on him and he's using his Ki Pool(swift, 1 round duration)?
I'm sure you mess him up in others ways : P Have you done anything hilarious and/or embarrassing to him?
I knocked him down once in ~10 sessions. In our last game, he punched a stone pillar while a wizard (who had already succeeded in running off the rest of the party) tried to slay/stop him with spells. Why was he punching a pillar? Because he could. The wizard ran out of spell slots. Then the monk started punching the wizard until he fell down.
It was the most ridiculous in-game combat I've ever seen. And that's just with a fighter/MoMS monk multiclass character. Power builds are already far beyond the curb. This archetype won't change a thing.
Hahahaha. Whoa, that was a well-deserved victory! Silly and I feel inefficient, but excellent and entertaining!