This idea is very much in the idea stage. I originally envisioned it as a druid archetype, but I'm starting to think it might work better as just a very closely-related class.
Anyways, here's my idea for an eccentric, shapeshifting creature of the forest. Other than what's listed here, its features are based on the druid's class features.
Reduced spells (and perhaps reduced spell list)
Spell levels probably wouldn't go past 4th or 6th (no orisons), and if the list was reduced, it'd solely focus on buffs or nature-related spells like "detect snares"—no big storms. Wisdom-based.
Delayed Nature Bond
Probably until 5th level, and the companion would be treated as if your druid level was 4 levels lower. The option for a domain might be outright removed, Animal might become the only available domain, or the option might be replaced with something like the Hunter's Bond ability (impart to your allies some of the boosts you get from your current form).
All good saves
Alternatively, the Will save might be reduced to average progression. Shapeshifters should be able to dodge quickly.
Different Skills
Acrobatics would be a must-have. Also, shapeshifters could potentially get a ranger-like bonus to Survival checks when tracking via scent.
No Thousand Faces or Wild Shape
Both are basically replaced.
No Resist Nature's Lure
I'm thinking that the shapeshifter might actually take a penalty against fey effects, being much closer to the animals fey are so good at charming.
Shapeshifting
At first level, the shapeshifter gets a limited form of Wild Shape. She may pick out one Small or Medium animal of her choice. She may assume this form at-will as a full-round action, and may remain in this form as long as she pleases. However, she may only return to her original form a number of times per day equal to her Charisma modifier, as her true personality fights through the bestial powers her shapeshifting comes from. She cannot switch from one animal form to another—she must revert to human form first.
The shapeshifter gains one new type of animal form per level. At 3rd level, she gains something resembling a tree shape ability, except that she chooses the exact type of plant she resembles (so, for instance, a dogwood). The appearance of her plant never changes deliberately, but it will look sicker or healthier depending on the shapeshifter's own appearance. The spell duration applies to this.
At 8th level, the shapeshifter may choose Large or Tiny animals.
At 12th level, the shapeshifter may choose Huge or Diminutive animals.
At 16th level, the shapeshifter may choose Vermin from sizes Diminuitive through Huge. She may remain in this form for a number of minutes equal to 10 x her current Intelligence modifier, cannot leave it at a whim (at every ten-minute mark, she may choose to leave if she wishes), and takes 2d4 points of "Intelligence penalty" when using the ability. If this penalty reduces her to 0, she remains in vermin form for the maximum duration but is still "loyal" to her allies. When the duration ends, she switches to an animal form and her Intelligence goes up to 2 points.
At 20th level, the shapeshifter's type permanently changes to Animal. She may choose six new forms from either animals, vermin, or nonmoving plant: One Tiny, one Medium, one Large, one Huge, one Gargantuan, and one Colossal. This six forms are all treated as animals for the purposes of determining how long the druid can remain in them.
Losing Control: A shapeshifter must take "breaks" from her animal form—equal to one hour per two hours spent in animal form. If she goes a number of hours equal to her level without taking such a break for the full duration (partial breaks do not count), she must make an Intelligence check for every hour afterwards until she returns to humanoid form. At first level only, the shapeshifter can choose to exit a few minutes before the one-hour mark and avoid the penalty. Otherwise, the duration is rounded up.
Each failed Intelligence check causes her to take a 1d4 penalty to Intelligence. This penalty fades after spending a full night's rest in her original form. If her Intelligence ever falls below 5 from this, she loses the ability to change back. Her Intelligence cannot be lowered below 2 in this manner, or 1 if the animal she is currently emulating has a 1 Intelligence normally (such as a snake). She cannot heal from this penalty naturally, though effects that restore temporary or permanent ability damage such as []lesser restoration[/i] have full effect.
The shapeshifter gains Natural Spell as a bonus feat at first level.
At later levels, the shapeshifter is treated as both her original creature type and the animal type, and is vulnerable to effects targeting either type.
I'm also considering making the shapeshifter's shapeshifting function more like how the druid's Wild Shape did in 3.5. In exchange, she becomes more dependent on all three of her mental ability scores—Intelligence keeps her sane, Wisdom gives her spells, Charisma gives her flexibility.
So.
Is this terrible?
I might also give them a number of bonus forms equal to half their Wisdom bonus, to make things a bit easier during the low levels. Or there could be a feat that offers two extras.
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I am loving the Animorphs style penalty for not changing back. A shapeshifter is what I've been wanting for a looong time, especially if it's full base attack bonus. Sadly, Paizo hasn't filled this niche. We've got Druids, but have to wait for Wildshape...
The 3rd party skin-changer is a good base to work from though. :)
Animorphs? I was going for a more "Earthsea" vibe... :P
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I am loving the Animorphs style penalty for not changing back. A shapeshifter is what I've been wanting for a looong time, especially if it's full base attack bonus. Sadly, Paizo hasn't filled this niche. We've got Druids, but have to wait for Wildshape...
The 3rd party skin-changer is a good base to work from though. :)
I was going to suggest the skin-changer from the New Paths Compendium as well! :)
Animorphs? I was going for a more "Earthsea" vibe... :P
A Wizard of Earthsea was an awesome book. I haven't had time for the rest of the series, sadly, but I hope to one day. Recently found out about the Miyazaki film based on the books, might watch that some time too.
As for this class itself, I can see the appeal of these limitations and checks and balances to your idea and the flavor of it, but after a certain point, people could just play a druid to get better spellcasting and wildshape to boot. They could even flavor their druid as this sort of shapeshifter and archetype-out some of the things you mentioned in your list. If you're going to be this harsh on what they can turn into and how long and all that, you have to make it better than Druids. Your idea for 3.5 wildshape might help with that.
I think you misunderstand. I don't want to replace druids. This is an alternate class with similarities. If people want to play a druid primarily for spellcasting, they're more than welcome to. :P
I think you misunderstand. I don't want to replace druids. This is an alternate class with similarities. If people want to play a druid primarily for spellcasting, they're more than welcome to. :P
Well, I might be really misunderstanding then, because as far as I can tell, Druids have more options to wildshape and can do it more often for longer. Please make me understand.
I would probably go with full BAB and d10 HD for class like that.
I would probably go with full BAB and d10 HD for class like that.
I'd suggest using the ranger chassis at that point.
Druids can't wildshape at-will for most of their progression and can't stay in their form indefinitely.
Keeping your criticisms in mind, though. The shapeshifting may be a bit too limited. It was kind of stream-of-consciousness—if you have alternative ideas, let me know!
I actually ended up writing a druid archetype very similar to this, sort of based on the 3.5 Shifter.
Ranger-style spell progression, gave up nearly every other Druid class feature, but could wild shape at will. Also had a limited-use ability that let it turn into basically anything, with full BaB for the duration of the transformation.
I don't want to derail your thread, but I could share it if you are interested.
I hadn't envisioned the shapeshifter being a strictly "kill things" class, which is why I left its BAB at average levels. Come to think of it, I can't think of too many other niches for it, which might actually call for some changes to be made. I envision the shapeshifter being a very flexible class.
One problem I'm foreseeing, though, is the shapeshifter becoming the "job stealer", which nobody likes. Definitely something to think about.
I'll admit - with the way polymorph spells work in Pathfinder, it's hard for a shapeshifting-focused class to not be a "kill things" class, IMO. Many polymorph spells give very high bonuses to strength, any many of the best polymorph forms have some nasty special attacks. Even a wizard can be pretty murderous when they shapeshift into a gallows tree for +8 strength and 6 natural attacks.
Obviously shapeshifting gives a lot of utility, too, but I don't think it's the kind of utility that steps on other classes toes too much - no amount of shapeshifting will equal the buffing power of a cleric or battlefield control of a wizard, and animals aren't known for being able to pick locks.
Which could be another argument for shapeshifters being "fighter-type". Really I see them filling about the same role as an Aegis - tanky damage dealer with situational flexibility.
Okay, I'll step outside of the rules for a sec and just look at what I want the shapeshifter class to be good at.
1. Espionage. A warlord explains his attack plan to his lieutenants, ignoring the falcon watching from high above. The shapeshifter needs to have means of being "sneaky" with her forms.
2. Escape. The shapeshifter grabs her halfling friend, turns into a cheetah, and runs like hell. Or she turns into an octopus and squeezes through the sewage system. The shapeshifter needs to be mobile.
3. Combat—often sudden. The shapeshifter is surrounded by a gang of orc thugs. She morphs into a bear and beats the s~%% about them. Then she has supper. The shapeshifter needs to be able to take on combat forms that are very different from her default look (so a frail, weak little man can turn into a wolverine and wreak havoc at a moment's notice).
4. Wilderness stuff. The shapeshifter can use her innate instincts to handle herself effectively. Perhaps she gains a bonus on basic skills in one or two terrains (Stealth, Survival—favored terrain stuff) but takes a penalty in others as her instincts fail her. A lion has no place in the tundra, after all.
Overall, my priority is dead simple: The shapeshifter needs to be just as good at things as her forms are. No more, no less. The druid just gets little bonuses and the odd ability like "Scent"—the shapeshifter needs to actually basically be the animal, to the point that a shapeshifter turning into a T-rex would actually get Powerful Bite.
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Perhaps something like a Barbarian/Druid hybrid.
BaB: Full
HD: D12
Skills: 4 + Int Mod
Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Disguise (Cha), Fly (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Kn (Nature) (Int), Kn. (Geography) (Int), Perception (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str)
Class Features:
Shift Pool: 4 Rounds + Con Mod, +2 Rounds/level
Shape shift: 1 Point of Shift/Round.
One animal form a level. Treated as Beast Shape I, at level 1, Plant Shape I at level 3, Beast Shape II at Level 6, Plant Shape 2 at level 7, Beast Shape III at level 9, Plant Shape III at level 10 Beast Shape IV at Level 11.
A shapeshifter if a shapeshifter uses its highest level shapeshift it lasts rounds/level, if he uses his next lower it's minutes/level, if it's the next lower it's 10 mins/level, if it's the next lower it's hours/level.
If a shapeshifter can increase the duration of their higher level shifts at the cost of 1d4 Int Damage per duration increase (1d4 for rounds to minutes, 2d4 for rounds to 10 minutes/level, 3d4 for rounds to hours, with the penalties as noted above).
After a battleshift a Shapeshifter is fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the time they spent battle shifted (as barbarian).
Shapeshifter Powers: At levels 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20 the Shapeshifter can gain an additional power (Additional monster abilities as described at the back of Bestiary 1-4), or some other trickiness that can only be accessed while shapeshifting or spending points from the shift pool.
Throw in some Uncanny Dodge and there's a pretty nice class chassis there.
Anyway that's how I'd do it.
It's a neat idea, but my preference is that the shapeshifter can spend long durations (as in, hours) in animal form. The idea is to encourage them to spend the majority of their time as an animal, in fact, since the whole idea is "trying to stay more man than beast".
Plus, the shapeshifting shouldn't be combat-only.
My current duration system's a bit clumsy right now, I'll grant, and I like what you've got. It just feels like a different idea from what I'm trying at.
If you are limiting the spellcasting pretty hard, giving them limited wild shape at 1st level and at-will wild-shape at 4th is probably not broken, especially if you use some kind of mechanic to punish them for staying in animal form too long (which is a cool idea, btw).
I also like Dudemeister's idea of "shifter talents" that allow them to pick up abilities a normal polymorph spell wouldn't - at that point you are probably getting into the territory of a new class rather than an archetype, though.
I also think that if you grant at-will wild shape, you don't need to do much more to encourage the kind of espionage/escape/combat stuff you are talking about. Maybe put in a note that the shifter gains the racial skill modifiers of whatever creature it turns into, but wild shape already covers doing basically all those things. I ran a campaign with one of my PCs playing my shifter archetype, and she did those kinds of things all the time, even with her shapeshifting just working like the regular polymorph spells.
Oh, and this thread has reminded me that I need to work tree shape into my shifter writeup's bag of tricks somehow...
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No worries, every cook likes a different recipe.
It's tricky to balance a class that can fly from level 1 the thing about shapeshifting is that it is really the best super power and can easily steal the niches of the sneaky character and the combat boss at the same time. At levels 1-5 is where the class will be trickiest to balance, since there are obvious "best" forms such as the Eagle, which can fly, has 3 natural attacks and good perception. At level 1 that's the best pick, but it means it bypasses many traps, has more attacks than a Two Weapon Fighter etc.
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The shifter talents could actually be a handy thing to steal. That could be how I incorporate the noncombat side of the shapeshifter.
Yeah, I'm thinking of stealing that idea myself. It's a great way to handle giving the shifter access to things like powerful bite without having to rewrite the spells they are using the polymorph.
It could also allow for the shifter to keep "specializing" in certain forms without being quite as strict as "one form per level all the way"—when in cheetah form, she gets the Sprint ability, but only if she grabs the Shifter Talent. Keeps a shifter from getting too crazy.
EDIT: Perhaps imitate the wizard's spellbook—1 + Wisdom modifier forms at first level, +2 per additional level.
One idea I just had—shifting allows the shapeshifter to swap the mental and physical stats as she sees fit.
Or something similar but less extreme. Just a quick idea.