Hello, wondering if anyone can definitively clear up whether a wall can be cast in mid-air. I am thinking of using prismatic wall with a readied action against a flying red dragon. The idea is to combine thwarting the breath weapon and putting him through the meat grinder all at the same time. The wall would be conjured as a readied action 5 feet in front of the dragon at time of casting. Seems like the rules don't prohibit it, and the wall is immobile multicolored magical light, so I don't imagine it would fall.... What do you think?
*Edit: Also need to know for Wall of Force, though I assume the answer would be the same in each case.
I think so, as long as the spell is not a conjuration effect you should be fine.
However, I may be missing something obvious so I'd see what others say as well.
I will also add that the dragon would not continue to fly into the wall necessarily, by the rules there is nothing saying he can't stop. He may not be able to continue moving depending on his flight maneuverability though (that is to say he may not be able to fly straight up to get around the wall).
I know for sure Wall of Stone and Wall of Ice can NOT as it says so in their description, but I am curious to hear others opinions with other wall spells
Wall of Fire, Wall of Force - yes, though they are immobile, so you would have these walls staying where they were created.
Wall of Ice - no, it is an anchored wall.
Wall of Stone - no, it must merge with an adjoining rock surface.
Wall of Iron - no, you can have it be a vertical wall either attached to or resting upon solid surface (though you can knock over the vertical wall) - EDIT: corrected conditions for the spell
Having it be a conjuration spell is not an issue, as it is Conjuration (creation), not Conjuration (summoning) ... you cannot summon creatures into areas win which they cannot survive (i.e. - you cannot summon a blue whale and a bowl of petunias so they would be in free fall 5 miles in the air above the ground). I do not believe there is a similar limitation on creation spells.
EDIT: Prismatic Wall - yes, though it is immobile and would remain where cast.
Some walls calls out needing an anchor specifically.
By RAW I don't see anything wrong in casting a prismatic wall spell in mid-air air. But I would question it for RAI... Not that I have a case for what they want, but because it seems silly to have a wall placed in mid-air.
Edit: ninja'd
You should be good for your "meat grinder in front of a dragon" trick. Of course if it has Wingover or can make a DC 15 fly check (not THAT hard for a high hit-die dragon, the CR 11 Red has +11 to her fly skill for example) it will just swerve to avoid.
yeah, but I would classify the Wall of Fire as an effect, not an object. It cannot be grabbed or manipulated as iron, stone or ice can; it has no hardness, etc. As it is not an object, but rather an effect, it should be able to be created wherever.
boring7 wrote: You should be good for your "meat grinder in front of a dragon" trick. Of course if it has Wingover or can make a DC 15 fly check (not THAT hard for a high hit-die dragon, the CR 11 Red has +11 to her fly skill for example) it will just swerve to avoid.
The meat grinder part probably shouldn't work at all.
Look at Wing Over:
Quote: Wingover
This creature can make turns with ease while flying.
Prerequisite: Fly speed.
Benefits: Once each round, a creature with this feat can turn up to 180 degrees as a free action without making a Fly skill check. This free turn does not consume any additional movement from the creature.
Normal: A flying creature can turn up to 90 degrees by making a DC 15 Fly skill check and expending 5 feet of movement. A flying creature can turn up to 180 degrees by making a DC 20 Fly skill check and expending 10 feet of movement.
Normally, even if the dragon doesn't have wingover he only needs to make a DC 20 fly check to do an about-face and keep flying. Beyond that, the dragon doesn't have to keep moving at all. He could just stop right in front of the wall without any problem. The dragon is not going to enter the prismatic sphere willingly.
I'll settle for stopping the breath weapon, thank you for anticipating the counter, boring7, and thanks all!
Claxon wrote: boring7 wrote: You should be good for your "meat grinder in front of a dragon" trick. Of course if it has Wingover or can make a DC 15 fly check (not THAT hard for a high hit-die dragon, the CR 11 Red has +11 to her fly skill for example) it will just swerve to avoid.
The meat grinder part probably shouldn't work at all.
Look at Wing Over:
Quote: Wingover
This creature can make turns with ease while flying.
Prerequisite: Fly speed.
Benefits: Once each round, a creature with this feat can turn up to 180 degrees as a free action without making a Fly skill check. This free turn does not consume any additional movement from the creature.
Normal: A flying creature can turn up to 90 degrees by making a DC 15 Fly skill check and expending 5 feet of movement. A flying creature can turn up to 180 degrees by making a DC 20 Fly skill check and expending 10 feet of movement.
Normally, even if the dragon doesn't have wingover he only needs to make a DC 20 fly check to do an about-face and keep flying. Beyond that, the dragon doesn't have to keep moving at all. He could just stop right in front of the wall without any problem. The dragon is not going to enter the prismatic sphere willingly. I agree that the dragon could stop all movement without a fly check, but then it would be falling (and take falling damage) unless it has already moved at least half its movement speed... Of course I find it hard to believe that a dragon that is up against a group who is throwing around prismatic walls wont be able to make the fly check.
The trick is likely only going to result in a tactical hindrance for the dragon and nothing else. (Unless the GM decides to let it go through and roll the dice that the effect wont be a problem for the dragon).
Lifat wrote: I agree that the dragon could stop all movement without a fly check, but then it would be falling (and take falling damage) unless it has already moved at least half its movement speed... Of course I find it hard to believe that a dragon that is up against a group who is throwing around prismatic walls wont be able to make the fly check.
The trick is likely only going to result in a tactical hindrance for the dragon and nothing else. (Unless the GM decides to let it go through and roll the dice that the effect wont be a problem for the dragon).
Actually, it's a DC 10 fly check to "Move less than half speed and remain flying".
So, the chance that he actually falls is quite low. But honestly, between taking falling damage and taking the penalties from a Prismatic Wall...I know which I would choose.
Claxon wrote: Lifat wrote: I agree that the dragon could stop all movement without a fly check, but then it would be falling (and take falling damage) unless it has already moved at least half its movement speed... Of course I find it hard to believe that a dragon that is up against a group who is throwing around prismatic walls wont be able to make the fly check.
The trick is likely only going to result in a tactical hindrance for the dragon and nothing else. (Unless the GM decides to let it go through and roll the dice that the effect wont be a problem for the dragon).
Actually, it's a DC 10 fly check to "Move less than half speed and remain flying".
So, the chance that he actually falls is quite low. But honestly, between taking falling damage and taking the penalties from a Prismatic Wall...I know which I would choose. In my gaming group I am known for some legendary intentional falls that did a great deal of falling damage to my characters. But sometimes taking the falling damage is simply preferable to staying where you are AND it can even be preferable to feather falling down. So if I was running the dragon I would absolutely choose to drop from the sky over flying through a prismatic wall, but as you said yourself... The dragon would likely make the fly check to avoid the wall without falling.
Lifat wrote: Some walls calls out needing an anchor specifically.
By RAW I don't see anything wrong in casting a prismatic wall spell in mid-air air. But I would question it for RAI... Not that I have a case for what they want, but because it seems silly to have a wall placed in mid-air.
Horizontal prismatic wall in the air over enemies. Reverse Gravity. Enemies are all forced into/through the prizmatic wall with no dice rolled to do so. And take damage for slamming into the prizmatic wall (one layer is a wall of force after all). And take falling damage for falling back to the ground. If they live that long to begin with.
That could be one reason?
Gilfalas wrote: Lifat wrote: Some walls calls out needing an anchor specifically.
By RAW I don't see anything wrong in casting a prismatic wall spell in mid-air air. But I would question it for RAI... Not that I have a case for what they want, but because it seems silly to have a wall placed in mid-air.
Horizontal prismatic wall in the air over enemies. Reverse Gravity. Enemies are all forced into/through the prizmatic wall with no dice rolled to do so. And take damage for slamming into the prizmatic wall (one layer is a wall of force after all). And take falling damage for falling back to the ground. If they live that long to begin with.
That could be one reason? Well, since the Indigo color "Stops all spells." and the effect only happen when "their effects on creatures trying to attack you or pass through the wall", I don't think Reverse Gravity can actually trigger the wall since it can't force them to attempt to cross it. Reverse Gravity stops pushing when they touch the wall, and real gravity stops them from crossing it. At least not going upward.
Note also many of the Walls use the terminology of "vertical" such as the text of both Prismatic Wall and Wall of Force. Of course in turn this implies a local directional pull of gravity. Be prepared to answer questions about positioning of such Walls on, for example, the Astral Plane.
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