Weapon groups 'counting as'


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

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I use a metal klar wich is in the heavy blades group and get slashing grace with it.
But it counts as a light spiked shield, the spiked shield being in the close weapon group, does that mean I can use slashing grace with a klar and get the benefit of close-weapon mastery from brawler?

Or do my dreams of a Dex-based brawler go down the sink?


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Klar

I think that the klar being specifically placed in the Heavy Blades fighter weapons group overrides the possibility that, because it "counts as a light steel shield with armor spikes", it would be in the Close fighter weapons group.

The latter applies in general to spiked shields, but the former applies specifically to the klar.

Grand Lodge

Oh, the Klar.

Some places note it as a light weapon, and others, an one-handed weapon.

It also notes it as a light shield, with armor spikes, which no shield can have. Those are called shield spikes.


A klar is NOT a spiked shield. If you check the description on p.13 of Crimson Throne you find

Quote:
Klar:You can attack an opponent with a klar, using it as an off-hand, martial slashing weapon. For the purpose of attack roll penalties, treat a klar as a light weapon. If you use a klar to make an attack, you lose its AC bonus until your next action (usually until the next round). Both segments of a klar can be enhanced separately. An enhancement bonus on the shield does not improve the effectiveness of the blade and vice versa.

So a klar can be used as a weapon, in which case it is a one-handed martial slashing weapon (with light weapon penalties to attack) OR it can be used as spiked light shield with all the rules associated with that like doing piercing damage.

---edit: so NO, when used as a spiked shield (close weapon possible) it does piercing damage, and when used as a blade it is not a close weapon.

Grand Lodge

Ah, but there have been reprints of the weapon.

Such as:

Varisia, Birthplace of Legends pg. 14,
Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide pg. 11,
Pathfinder Campaign Setting pg. 209,
Curse of the Crimson Throne Player's Guide pg. 13,
Adventurer's Armory pg. 18,
Inner Sea World Guide pg. 290,
and Ultimate Equipment pg. 18.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

Ah, but there have been reprints of the weapon.

Such as:

Varisia, Birthplace of Legends pg. 14,
Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide pg. 11,
Pathfinder Campaign Setting pg. 209,
Curse of the Crimson Throne Player's Guide pg. 13,
Adventurer's Armory pg. 18,
Inner Sea World Guide pg. 290,
and Ultimate Equipment pg. 18.

aye, and you could check through them to see when it became no longer clear that there were two modes of use if that served a purpose, but it was clear in Crimson Throne. since the question hinges on what is intended by 'counts' in the most recent mention of the weapon we can look at the earlier rules for guidance on RAI (and this is still RAW). For the purposes of the question asked, 'counts' should be interperted as "a martial slashing weapon", which would not be in the close weapon group.

Liberty's Edge

Sooo the dream is down the drain...
At least monks kan slashing-grace a temple sword, maybe they will be less MAD now.


Reid Richter wrote:

Sooo the dream is down the drain...

At least monks kan slashing-grace a temple sword, maybe they will be less MAD now.

Well there is still the agile weapon enchant route to get DEX to damage.

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