snickersimba |
Its a fun game, I love it and everything, but the major issues I have with it are:
1.Setup time
this may not seem too big of a deal at first, but if the game takes 20-50 minutes to set up depending on how knowlagable the players are, they aren't gonna want to play, coupled with the second one
2. Lack of storage
I don't know how to title this one, but my issue is that if I have a game set up and say we need to put it away because someone just lost an arm to the invisible weregoats, I cannot just stick the cards back in the box and then retrive them, nor can I leave the game set up, because of the way its laid out. Unless you have some way of storing the decks someplace, you can't really pause a game. (I play in a school for like fourty minutes)
3. Price
I feel that the game is just too expensive, mostly due to the fact you have to spend twenty bucks on each new segment of the game, dispite the fact that the game already costs sixty dollars. Sixty dollars that you will spend over and over if you want to play the next version.
4. Sheer complexity.
I feel that the games original rulebook is a bit garbled, the one that came with the game, while I know there are free downloads on the site, my computer hasn't felt like printing anything that isn't an abstract painting. It also scares away people from playing it because of how many rules and features there are, while this doesn't hurt D&D fans, people who have never played D&D or any game like it will be overwhelmed.
Those are simply my reasons why I haven't played it or posted anything about it in ages. I simply cannot keep up with this game as a fifteen year old gamer. I love the game to death, just money is one thing I am always concerned about. With these new class decks being so nebulos I can't decide between them and the last two runelord decks. Sorry if this seems like whining, just my opinion.
rexx2264 |
But on the other hand, with the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Guild starting this month, if you have a store that is running the guild, all you would need to buy is one character deck $20 and than join, the store should have the skull and shackles base set and adventure paths.
on the cost of buying the whole game, while it can be steep if you have a group that likes to play see if others are willing to buy one of the adventure path decks. Other than that, just like playing the actual RPG the cost of the books adds up.
On setup for school play or a short play time, all I can suggest is sleeving the cards the night before. I know this adds more cost. with my set we have 5 playing currently, I have each player deck sleeved and the actual cards in the deck listed in case I need to un-sleeve them fast. The night before we play I draw the 30 random blessing sleeve those. My setup time is about 10 minutes. You could pre-load the locations and rubber band them so they stay together. Not much I can do for you about pick up time.
Jorsalheim |
1. Setup can be a drag sometimes. I play solo (mostly) and it takes some time to set up (and take down) a six character group. But when I introduced the game to my brothers as new players, I let them choose a character and we built the decks out of the recommended decks in the rulebook. And when you are more players, you got more helping hands in the shuffling and setting up the locations by letting one take the monsters and put them in the locations, another take the barriers and so on.
2. One thing you can do is put the location decks on a stack on each other, with the location card on top of each location deck separating the decks. If you put the scenario card on the bottom of the stack you can avoid spoilers. Then you can use a rubber band to hold them together and maybe put them into one of the adventure pack boxes. Or just let it lay in the box if there is available space. I usually have two big deckboxes (500 card in each) when I travel with the complete game. Now, that won't work if you sleeve cards.
3. I get the money issue. I would probably not owned this game if I was 15 years old and went to school. The shipping to Norway is almost doubling the price on the game for me, and then I get taxes on most of it.
4. I've only played this game with non-roleplayers and they got it pretty fast. It just took some time to get through the first couple of turns before they understood how thing worked. To be fair, they play lots of computer games and some other card/board games.
You just have to be a good guide, and maybe play with open hands the first rounds. And there will always be some questions on how cards worked in different situations.
Now you don't really need the class decks to play with the characters on your own time as they have character sheets to download. I think some of the characters will work best with some of the cards in the Class decks though. The Class Decks is needed if you want to join an Organized Play program. But the other posts here explain that.
And I will recommend focusing on completing the Runelords Adventure with the last two adventure packs before buying Class Decks if you're not going to join organized play. It completes the adventure, and you can try it out with new characters later :)
Theryon Stormrune |
Cost ... I get that. You have the base set and the add-on. Then five more adventure decks. It's expensive but if you have a few different groups you play with and if they replay the game with different characters then you get a bit more out of the game. But then S&S starts all over again. And in six months, Wrath of the Righteous. And on top of this, adding sleeves to keep the game a bit more protected. All I can say is that there a few avenues you can pursue to get the game cheaper than others.
Storage ... I bought a large bin for the game. I bought a card box, the type with two upright rows side-by-side with a cover. Then put in dividers (card dividers that are vinyl/plastic then wrote the card type on the top). The original box with sleeved cards doesn't work. Then all the other stuff I've picked up plus character sheet storage, extra dice and pencils, etc. The plastic bin helps organize it. And I keep my S&S set with my RotR.
Complexity … yeah, the original rulebook was a bit messy. But because the newer ones are PDFs, you can keep it on a tablet or laptop. Or bite the bullet and get it printed. It does make things easier to use the newer ones.
Setup … if you know you're playing in a day or two, and you have the character sheets, you can pull the cards together for the characters. Pull the adventure and scenario card. Build the location decks. And pull the villains and henchmen. I always build an extra location just in case another person shows up at the store.
I decided early on that the cost was not going to dissuade me for buying the game and enjoying it. I got burned with Leviathans and a little with Ascension. But I find the interest in this game is greater. Playtime is reasonable. Reusability is good. And support here is amazing. I'm in it for the long haul. My friends and I have decided not to buy multiple copies (like we did with RotR). And that's okay. I have my set that we'll use for S&S. Plus I'm getting into the organized play.
An option is to have you and your friends all contribute to the game if you have a consistent group and all enjoy playing ...
Theryon Stormrune |
Oh, and the new Class decks ... you don't need them if you're just playing with friends and family. They're just for organized play.
And you being a younger consumer, it's tough. Most of us have jobs and are able to use disposable income to purchase the game. But I'd have to agree with you, it isn't a cheap game to get into. (But I do have to say that I've spent less on RotR and S&S than my friend has spent on Magic over the same period!)
Good luck!
snickersimba |
thanks everyone! I don't know any local stores that are running S&S or ROTRL. I may need to check out the game den to see if its any better than game on. I do think I may get the wizard, sorc and possibly the cleric class decks for varieties sake. I was never comfortable with ezren and seoni being only two options. While I understand WHY they did it, I just feel that seoni and ezren are diverse and interesting. Kyra replacements are mandatory with so many gods.
Mike Selinker Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Its a fun game, I love it and everything, but the major issues I have with it are:
1.Setup time
this may not seem too big of a deal at first, but if the game takes 20-50 minutes to set up depending on how knowlagable the players are, they aren't gonna want to play, coupled with the second one
You're going to love Obsidian's electronic version when it comes out.
2. Lack of storage
I don't know how to title this one, but my issue is that if I have a game set up and say we need to put it away because someone just lost an arm to the invisible weregoats, I cannot just stick the cards back in the box and then retrive them, nor can I leave the game set up, because of the way its laid out. Unless you have some way of storing the decks someplace, you can't really pause a game. (I play in a school for like fourty minutes)
You're going to love Obsidian's electronic version when it comes out.
3. Price
I feel that the game is just too expensive, mostly due to the fact you have to spend twenty bucks on each new segment of the game, dispite the fact that the game already costs sixty dollars. Sixty dollars that you will spend over and over if you want to play the next version.
You're going to love Obsidian's electronic version when it comes out.
4. Sheer complexity.
I feel that the games original rulebook is a bit garbled, the one that came with the game, while I know there are free downloads on the site, my computer hasn't felt like printing anything that isn't an abstract painting. It also scares away people from playing it because of how many rules and features there are, while this doesn't hurt D&D fans, people who have never played D&D or any game like it will be overwhelmed.
You're going to love Obsidian's electronic version when it comes out.
Mike Selinker Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer |
Vic Wertz Chief Technical Officer |
Theryon Stormrune wrote:Pretty sure it will be iPad first. (At least that's what was said at the demo.)Yes it is for the IPAD. Same prices: 60 USD base set and each expansion 20 USD ;-)
Obsidian has not announced pricing, or even if/how they will divide up the base set and expansions.
Flat the Impaler |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So basically, you want a card game that's quick to setup, easy to store, cheap, and simple.
I think I've found the perfect game for you... ;)
Draight |
snickersimba - I'm in a similar situation. I play pathfinder with my wife to get away from technology. I'm a computer scientist who enjoys the limited time I get away from my computer with other people. That being said I can see an issue with the redundancy of buying a base set, a character add-on, and a class deck. Lem's great but I'm not sure how many versions of the guy I want. I think there's even a version in S&S which furthers the redundancy. This could be an opportunity to bust out some of the fringe class archetypes (or mainstream)...
hfm |
Sorry, but if its on a computer then its not gonna be possible. Unless I manage to magically pull a full gaming pc out of thin air then I will enjoy my home copy, alone, in the dark, hating everyone.
What the specs of computer do you have? Board/Card games typically are not so graphically intense. Most computers with integrated graphics should be good enough. I would imagine Obsidian/Paizo will want the most amount of people to be able to play it when it finally hits Windows/Mac.
Blazej |
There aren't many games that store well in the middle of a game although PAG can be a bit tougher with the multiple decks per player.
So basically, you want a card game that's quick to setup, easy to store, cheap, and simple.
I think I've found the perfect game for you... ;)
I think I understand your point, but all I see is a challenge to pick out fun card games that meet those criteria.
Guillotine is the first to come to mind for cost and ease of play. I've seen players who have trouble with bigger card games have fun planning out their strategies of how to get a head. Even with all of that is a pretty cost effective card game.
There are a couple pretty fun history games that have you remembering or guessing when certain events occurred in history. Timeline (various series) and Chronology. Despite being more educational than my standard fair these games are both surprisingly fun.
I cheat a tad as I mention Love Letter as the game includes tokens of affection from the princess you attempt to woo (which determines game end and winner), but my and my friends were able to play this the first time for almost an hour just having fun with the game not keeping score. In my opinion this plays well for a card game even without those tokens.
Chrononauts is pretty simple considering it is a game based on time travel and each of the players meddling with history.
While Apples to Apples does not contain the mechanical complexity in the other games contain (and not mentioning other similar games given the OP mentioning playing these games at school), it is still a fun game to play in a group that store easily, don't break the bank, and is trivial to learn.
None of these provide nearly the same experience as the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game and I can't imagine it as the same game without the various components or complexity, but there are many other card games out there that are fun without defaulting to playing cards.
To the OP, I understand but not all board games work in all venues. If you are just looking for a fun game to play during lunch break, there a are a lot of games that (while they are very fun) really don't work within the time constraints. One card game that I didn't mention above is Pit, I have fun playing it (which I can't say for many games that don't have turns), but it isn't anywhere close to being my favorite game. However at local conventions, I enjoy the game because it is one of the few games that has the ability to be played silently (which is helpful in loud convention spaces). At that same convention space I would have a hard time playing any game that required a large amount of talking.
If you and your group really enjoy the aspects unique to PACG here are my suggestions to the issues of setup time and lack of storage (hopefully it makes some sense).
This can be pretty hectic. I would recommend to help with this getting a card storage box. You can get basic boxes for very little. You only will need it to hold character decks, the blessings, and all the locations. It would also help to get card dividers, but it isn't absolutely necessary I think.
Before lunch you can set up the locations and blessings decks and when you are finished place them in the box. Use the location card to mark when each location deck begins and ends.
If you need to quickly pause a game, put it in the box the same way. Leave character face cards right on top of each location deck and put the character decks in the box (deck face down, discard face up, character cards marking where each deck begins and ends).
It isn't easy, but it might cut set up and clean up to a couple minutes each.
Mike Selinker Pathfinder Adventure Card Game Designer |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Guillotine is the first to come to mind for cost and ease of play. I've seen players who have trouble with bigger card games have fun planning out their strategies of how to get a head. Even with all of that is a pretty cost effective card game.
Notably designed by PACG developer Paul Peterson. I helped a tiny bit too.
Flat the Impaler |
Flat the Impaler wrote:Guillotine is the first to come to mind for cost and ease of play. I've seen players who have trouble with bigger card games have fun planning out their strategies of how to get a head. Even with all of that is a pretty cost effective card game.Notably designed by PACG developer Paul Peterson. I helped a tiny bit too.
Stop putting words in my mouth and thoughts in my brain!!! (That was Blazej.)
As a suggestion note:
Murder of Crows is also fun. It's the sort of game you would get if you asked Tim Burton to cross Munchkin with a spelling bee.