Yes it does. It also depends on whether the person reading the various descriptions of kender believe that the description "fluff" is rules dictating how a kender is to always behave OR if the fluff was written in a very tounge in cheek style which was never meant to be read by a rules-lawyer.
Gotcha, some folks are a little too literal. :)
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Spoilered for rant-y reasons:
Taliesin Hoyle's godawful encounter with the 'lesbian' character:
I've had to pull the lesbian card when playing female characters to stop getting hit on."My character is a beautiful blonde with big t+$&.
.
.
.She's a lesbian."I've had enough of this from "dudebros" in my games that I am now reflexively opposed to players playing cross sex/gender. I know that that is the wrong reaction, and I try to suppress my suspicion of new players who want to play cross sex/gender, but it is very difficult.
In that instance, I see the validity of taking that approach.
But this does remind me - not really a bad role-playing experience per se, but just an annoying tendency I come across constantly. Whenever a man cross-plays (Okay, and one woman I played with - but still, only 1 out of the 10 or so. The rest actually had a pretty even split between male and female PC's with about the same level of backstory, depending on how much the player got into that sort of thing.) I groan because that character will always, ALWAYS be one of two things:
A) A lesbian/raving bisexual that still manages to try and only seduce other women. (Or in the case of the aforementioned woman, a man who was always nominally bisexual but only hit on other men. I have no idea whether she was just being obnoxious or purposely ironic.)
This actually became such a common and hated offense at our table that when a new guy joined up and tried to pull the stunt, the DM made him role-play out what he said he was doing, in the first person voice, with another (male) player that had at that point in the story been polymorphed into a female Catfolk (don't ask) That was the most awkward fifteen-minutes of Pathfinder I have ever sat through. Shockingly, the player didn't return the next week.
So now, far more often they're just -
B) Completely aromantic. Not just asexual - aromantic. Every relationship she has ever had was platonic, every relationship will be platonic. She's never been in love. Never had an awkward romantic experience. Never noticed the other half of the humanoid race as anything other than foes to be mowed down or plot coupons for the next adventure.
Now, there's nothing wrong with not wanting a romantic/sexual element in your game (nor is there necessarily something wrong with playing a lesbian, if you're still playing an actual character) - but I mean these are the same guys who make tons of male characters who entertain romances, visit brothels, hit on attractive female NPC's; so that's definitely not the issue. And I'll take B over A any day of the week, but the dreadful part is that it invariably leads to dull characters. Like just making the character a woman was interesting enough so now you're done.
Worst backstory I'd ever encountered was a half-orc Monk. She had come from a far away land. I know what you're asking - to where? For what?
Well, too bad, you don't get to know because that was as far as she had gotten. She was here to 'see what's what.' And whenever we had downtime, if you asked what she was going to do, that was it. Which makes sense, I suppose, since that's what she had come from a far away land to do.
The GM did eventually get the player on track and help them flesh out a real backstory, but those first few sessions were brutal when it focused on her.
So far, she's really tried to seduce men, too. The only taker she had was an enemy she killed shortly thereafter (because he was evil, serving hell, and binding celestials that she'd set free).
Of course, she's also fairly failed at women, they just tend to be more interesting characters so far*.
To be fair to me, however, before the game, I created a host of different character archetypes, styles, and ideas, and this was the one that the GM felt fit the game the best.
... that, and her entire back-story was that she was a raving qlippoth who was the mother of all demons in her ancient past before finally shedding herself of the ability to give birth by way of consuming a broken female celestial (a solar that appeared somewhat similar to a half-elf) by whom she had two children (named Soccothbenoth and Nocticula), for whose sake she finally acquiesced and started to become a demon lord and a god herself (after eons of working to avoid exactly that) only to be assassinated on the verge of her own apotheosis, only to wake up untold millennia later in Axis of all places... as a mortal half-elf.
So... you know... she's a bit weird, and has little concept of 'gender difference' (or really any difference) anyway^. I mean, she still thinks nostrils** are a novel and freakish thing***^.
* (She actually has a pretty solid potential romance with a celestial, presuming she ever gets back to Elysium, having been sent away by a weird masked character for 'enlightenment' while said celestial wasn't looking. Also presuming said celestial forgives her... uh... darker... impulses. She works hard to control them, though! ... sometimes! She's learning!)
** (As are: hands, a central nervous system, a singular blood-pumping organ, only one centralized brain/casing, a singular center for visual perception, all breathing happening in the same central location, weird emotional reactions like 'crying' and 'stuffy noses', and generally anything that's considered pretty normal.)
*** (Having no concept of perversion, however, outside of a hypothetical knowledge that those moral types think some are, she finds absolutely no problem with - and, in fact, delights in - 'novel and freakish' things.)
^ (EDIT: I mean, a long-term goal of hers is to seduce Elysium. Not the inhabitants, but the plane itself. To seduce the actual, non-sentient, non-living, broad piece of extraplanar environment (including terrain, atmosphere, weather, and so on) that most creatures refer to as 'Elysium' and to become that plane's lover and guardian. She... may lack a sense of proportion or reason. This might occasionally cause problems for her. (Hint: it does, and it's great.))
EDIT: But, you know, I do understand where you're coming from, and don't deny that your experience is valid. This is mostly just me giving a counter-example of how things suss out.
That belongs in the Awesome category. :) Great plot twist, I'm impressed.
The whole amnesia thing really depends on the DM and the player's reason for being an amnisiac. The player did give you some detail (He rembered waking up in a temple and training). If you have (or are) really good story teller of a DM, then you can pull off minimal backgrounds. I usually do make minimal backgrounds because our DM is such a good story teller that he usually takes our minimal background and weaves it successfully into his story.
I think the whole reason I tend to do minimal backgrounds is because I'm usually not familiar enough with the world to make a truly detailed background and I like giving my DM fodder to work with :)
Mark's story was indeed awesome but it relied entirely on the GM coming up with something creative. That was still not very good from the player's perspective. Since he was shy and a newbie, I'd let it slide. It'd be unreasonable for everyone to come up with amazing, intricate backstories before they've really got comfortable with the game.
As for minimal backstories, there are GMs who'd love that because it gives them more control. Other GMs like players giving them ideas through their backstories. I've played it both ways and enjoy both.'
If the GM is calling for minimal backstory then "I'm an amnesiac" is perfectly acceptable. I think the person who first mentioned it was complaining because everyone else was writing detailed backstories and he came up with nothing.
Like lighting himself on fire to light up the open area.
Holy crap on a stick. That's what the Light Cantrip is for! We tend to cast it on our big brawny fighter guy's sword because he likes it when it glows. (He's not so smart, but he sure can swing a sword!) If you've seen Guardians of the Galaxy, think the big blue tatooed guy. That's our fighter. Our fighter was like that before the movie came out and we thought it was hilarious when we saw it.
I would have left that group too. Honestly, what adventurer in their right mind would allow a drunk hero on their team unless said drunk was one of those "Drunken Masters" (I swear I saw someone make a class for that). The group that took a normal drunk along has gotta have a death-wish.
You know, it took me three mentions of 20 page backstories to realize that you all were saying that they were too long. I kept thinking "Yeah, that's kinda short." :P
Sadly(for purposes of sharing entertainment), so far I haven't seen any truly horrible roleplaying yet. I've had experiences where the guys I play with(when RL doesn't somehow preclude our ability to game) do things that make absolutely no sense from a meta perspective but end up being entertaining roleplay. Like the time a guy threw a Runestone of Power at a giant floating eyeball because he couldn't identify it but was told by a mothman sent by the party's patron that it would be helpful in the upcoming encounter.
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You know, it took me three mentions of 20 page backstories to realize that you all were saying that they were too long. I kept thinking "Yeah, that's kinda short." :P ...
Uhmm... I think you would be sadly disappointed in 90% of the people with whom I've played RPG's. I think I've only known 2 guys that regularly go over a page. One of those is because he hand writes it very messily.
Well Deadlands has a mechanic where if you want to have a bit more survivability you must write a one page backstory (single spaced) on your character. And in truth it works really well because the back story has to be submitted to the Marshal and looked over so he can build encounters and sessions around different members of the posse. Problem is that some people I know that want to play Deadlands are not very good at writing thoughts down on paper and making it coherent with the setting.
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An 87 page (single spaced) backstory for a character that had yet to be played, with the player expectation that multiple elements from the novella would be in the campaign and rather quickly. Although the player was of the type that wanted the spotlight on themselves at every moment, and got upset (at one point shouting) when other people around the table asked if they could play too.
Maybe that guy should just write stories with his character starring in them instead of trying to RP...
We have one friend who really likes to write detailed back stories. He's a little bit of a min/maxer, but he's really nice and fun to play with, so we give him some allowances. But my goodness, trying to read his back stories is very hard. Due to no fault of his own, he cannot spell and grammar is a suggestion not a rule. Other than that, his back stories are actually really interesting and we have fun. Sadly, I haven't played an RPG with him in a while since our schedules kind of don't mesh, but he is still playing with friends of ours.
Edited for a P.S.
To give a little bit of background, I was, at one time, an English major. I have to admit that, on forums, I don't always watch my grammar because I write like I talk, but when I'm actually writing something, grammar is good, spelling is generally good (not counting typos which I generally manage to fix) so reading a story that has multiple grammar and spelling errors makes me shudder. :)
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An 87 page (single spaced) backstory for a character that had yet to be played, with the player expectation that multiple elements from the novella would be in the campaign and rather quickly.........
I recall a hilarious story I once read on a different forum. The player handed the GM about 20 pages of backstory. After the game had started the players made some pretty bad decisions which got the PC with the 20 pager killed. The player announces that, in fact, his PC is not dead because on page 17 paragraph 4 the PC was cursed to only be killed by a red dragon.
GM then said a red dragon comes out of the horizon breathes only on his PC and flies off into the distance. Then ripped his 20 pager in half and tossed it into the rubbish bin. :)
An 87 page (single spaced) backstory for a character that had yet to be played, with the player expectation that multiple elements from the novella would be in the campaign and rather quickly.........I recall a hilarious story I once read on a different forum. The player handed the GM about 20 pages of backstory. After the game had started the players made some pretty bad decisions which got the PC with the 20 pager killed. The player announces that, in fact, his PC is not dead because on page 17 paragraph 4 the PC was cursed to only be killed by a red dragon.
GM then said a red dragon comes out of the horizon breathes only on his PC and flies off into the distance. Then ripped his 20 pager in half and tossed it into the rubbish bin. :)
Heh. Yeah, RPGs don't work that way. Nice try. You can't put something in your background and have it stick like that unless you get GM approval first. It just don't work like that. Otherwise we'd all be unkillable!
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An 87 page (single spaced) backstory for a character that had yet to be played, with the player expectation that multiple elements from the novella would be in the campaign and rather quickly.........I recall a hilarious story I once read on a different forum. The player handed the GM about 20 pages of backstory. After the game had started the players made some pretty bad decisions which got the PC with the 20 pager killed. The player announces that, in fact, his PC is not dead because on page 17 paragraph 4 the PC was cursed to only be killed by a red dragon.
GM then said a red dragon comes out of the horizon breathes only on his PC and flies off into the distance. Then ripped his 20 pager in half and tossed it into the rubbish bin. :)
I would have just said, "What amazing luck! You managed to escape your awful Destiny."
20? 40? 80? Nambly amateurs.
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I would have just said, "What amazing luck! You managed to escape your awful Destiny."An 87 page (single spaced) backstory for a character that had yet to be played, with the player expectation that multiple elements from the novella would be in the campaign and rather quickly.........I recall a hilarious story I once read on a different forum. The player handed the GM about 20 pages of backstory. After the game had started the players made some pretty bad decisions which got the PC with the 20 pager killed. The player announces that, in fact, his PC is not dead because on page 17 paragraph 4 the PC was cursed to only be killed by a red dragon.
GM then said a red dragon comes out of the horizon breathes only on his PC and flies off into the distance. Then ripped his 20 pager in half and tossed it into the rubbish bin. :)
"What an awful night for a curse!"
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I would have just said, "What amazing luck! You managed to escape your awful Destiny."
GM then said a red dragon comes out of the horizon breathes only on his PC and flies off into the distance. Then ripped his 20 pager in half and tossed it into the rubbish bin. :)
Or... No, no, that's a typo, it says Red Dragoon and that (whatever just killed you) was a part of the Red Dragoon cult.
Or was made by the Red Dragoon cult.Once belonged to a Red Dragon
Or was invented by a Red Dragon...
I would have just said, "What amazing luck! You managed to escape your awful Destiny."An 87 page (single spaced) backstory for a character that had yet to be played, with the player expectation that multiple elements from the novella would be in the campaign and rather quickly.........I recall a hilarious story I once read on a different forum. The player handed the GM about 20 pages of backstory. After the game had started the players made some pretty bad decisions which got the PC with the 20 pager killed. The player announces that, in fact, his PC is not dead because on page 17 paragraph 4 the PC was cursed to only be killed by a red dragon.
GM then said a red dragon comes out of the horizon breathes only on his PC and flies off into the distance. Then ripped his 20 pager in half and tossed it into the rubbish bin. :)
Clearly either a red dragon polymorphed into whatever killed him, or polymorphed into a mimic that appeared as whatever killed him. (Not sure if that works, to be honest...)
Clearly either a red dragon polymorphed into whatever killed him, or polymorphed into a mimic that appeared as whatever killed him. (Not sure if that works, to be honest...)
Or it had a picture of a Red Dragon emblazoned into it.
Or It was set up by a Red DragonOr it was made out of part of a Red Dragon.
There are so many ways to negate that "Killed by a Red Dragon" thing it's not funny. :)
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a player in a game i was part of didnt want to write the "mandatory" 1.5 page back story. so he instead blew up the words AMNESIA and printed them on 1.5 sheets. the dm took the opportunity to come up with his very own back story for the character. needless to say the character was gay and had a tendency to shop uncontrollably. the reason as we found out he had amnesia was that he was trampled at a shoe sale. the player expressed his frustration at his past and refused to roleplay it at all. i just kept telling him "if the dm says your a shopping adict demand the ability to quickly find good deals on magical footwear and go with it" instead he became a self hating homosexual that refused to wear shoes or be part of the party at all.
a player in a game i was part of didnt want to write the "mandatory" 1.5 page back story. so he instead blew up the words AMNESIA and printed them on 1.5 sheets. the dm took the opportunity to come up with his very own back story for the character. needless to say the character was gay and had a tendency to shop uncontrollably. the reason as we found out he had amnesia was that he was trampled at a shoe sale. the player expressed his frustration at his past and refused to roleplay it at all. i just kept telling him "if the dm says your a shopping adict demand the ability to quickly find good deals on magical footwear and go with it" instead he became a self hating homosexual that refused to wear shoes or be part of the party at all.
Seriously, if you're going to give the DM free reign with your background, be prepared to get dumped on.
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That GM was a jerk, though.
@Neprhil: That story made me twitch. Agree with Baha-Who on that assessment. Regardless, Liranys has a point. BS like that though wouldn't fly with me... But that might be because I'm bi and have a thing for good boots. Preferably with straps, metal, platforms/heels, or knee-high. Though I've long since stopped that since "goth" became a main-stream fashion fad. *twitches with annoyance once again*
speaking of backgrounds trying to influence game play... My last primary group had a really bad one.
No one wanted to GM, the GMs were getting burn out because players kept letting their IRL issues affect how their character was acting in game. One even went so far as to get annoyed OOC, and completely derail the game IC because he didn't want to play his character anymore, despite his character was pretty much the main character who was curse-bound to one half of a shattered deific artifact.
So, I offer to GM next week. Spend an entire week throwing together a simple little game, because I knew someone was going to get pissy and want to derail the game (with the exception of me, my fiance, and 1 other person, the entire group were spot-light hogging attention whores, complete with one of the females getting pissy and killing off her character when Foxglove got interested in my fiance's 18CHA half-elf, instead of the 15CHA human, when we ran 1 bit of ROTRL). It was a simple affair really. Ship wreck, island in the middle of nowhere full of shipwrecked peoples, rival factions of merfolk and undead, evil wizard scientist in the volcano... Saturday morning cartoon stuff.
One player, the usual GM who was normally quite fantastic at GMing (ran the aforementioned deific artefact game), is just... Horrible as a player. He came up with some contrived back story about how his character was a tian-min samurai who was searching for his family's legacy blades that were stolen (naturally, artifact level). He then proceeded to dictate to me that if the story did not go in the way that his character would follow, he would quit the campaign. Basically strong-armed me into a position I would have taken anyways (dropping hints and clues about his family's blades along the entirety of the campaign to keep the character going)... But when I sought out some advice on making a half-lich (as I had not DMed in years before that point and was thus, rusty), proceeded to expound on his background as royalty in minkai, banishment, family honor, and so forth. Then proceeded to try and use that to hijack my campaign into a sea-faring search.
Same guy who tried to force himself as the leader of the party, force the local tian population into giving him free things as he was "samurai, and they were commoners," and beheading anyone who looked at him wrong, then collecting and preserving the head to tie to his belt by their hair.... Basically taking every bad legend about samurai and claiming it as fact, and using that as the basis for his character, while proceeding to tell me (who had spent many years researching samurai, living martial arts, and studying the topic of feudal japan) I didn't know WTH I was talking about when I pointed out the flaws, both in real-world, and in my campaign world.
All stemming, of course, from his background that he attempted to finagle 3 free +1 swords out of, enchanted armor, and combining flurry-of-blows with his katana, wakizashi, and tanto (he was a sohei monk/samurai).... Which I for the most part allowed, since I was letting heirloom equipment into the game (up to 6K gold I think) since early-game loot would be rare and mostly pointless, the FoB thing with a feat tax, and hell no to the armor.
I am so glad we don't game with that group anymore.
Also from the same group: the angelkin aasimar that seduced a deity; the Mugen-wannabe that was attempted to be a direct port of Mugen from Samurai Champloo; on the samurai, one player couldn't play a ninja because "all samurai and ninja were vile enemies, and samurai would kill ninja on sight, and vice verse".... Didn't help that said samurai was the guy who's apartment we were gaming at.
Just... I have nightmares... *twitch* Can't... Unknow... Need... Distraction.. Oh look! LOLCats!
Samurai and Ninja didn't always kill each other on site, most lords often had the services of both, the difference between a Samurai and a Ninja serving the same lord, can be Examined by Watching Captain America, the Winter Soldier and Examining the 2 lead characters, Captain America and Black Widow
essentially, the difference between a paladin and a rogue, Captain America being the Former and Black Widow Being the latter. Samurai being Japanese paladins and Ninja being Japanese Rogues. both might have different approaches but the main difference is
Samurai had a moral reputation to uphold as an example for the people they guarded, they had a code of conduct they had to retain in public during times of peace or calm between wars
Ninja often had to swallow their pride and get their hands dirty, not because they wanted to do so, but because they were generally one of the few people willing to do the dirty work that violated a Samurai's pride.
a Samurai, even if they were a pragmatic mounted light armored archer, had to serve as an example on the battlefield, because their role wasn't just as soldiers, but as philosophers, as teachers, and as politicians
the Ninja, more pragmatic, and also similar to samurai, often trained in subdivisions that were loyal to a given lord, simply did what was expected of them, no questions of morality asked. if the reasons behind these missions were to be revealed, many of them would have issues sleeping, it wasn't that they were dirty by choice, it was that they were accustomed to a rather different lifestyle because they spent their whole lives getting their hands dirty to put bread and water upon their table due to the fact that few would. in fact, most ninja were orphans abandoned by their families and left to die. generally daughters discarded so families could feed their sons. because japan had a working orphanage system of sorts, where abandoned children could be put to a use desired by the lord, unless a particular samurai wants another sword polisher or seamstress or something.
Samurai and Ninja didn't always kill each other on site, most lords often had the services of both, the difference between a Samurai and a Ninja serving the same lord, can be Examined by Watching Captain America, the Winter Soldier and Examining the 2 lead characters, Captain America and Black Widow
essentially, the difference between a paladin and a rogue, Captain America being the Former and Black Widow Being the latter. Samurai being Japanese paladins and Ninja being Japanese Rogues. both might have different approaches but the main difference is
Samurai had a moral reputation to uphold as an example for the people they guarded, they had a code of conduct they had to retain in public during times of peace or calm between wars
Ninja often had to swallow their pride and get their hands dirty, not because they wanted to do so, but because they were generally one of the few people willing to do the dirty work that violated a Samurai's pride.
a Samurai, even if they were a pragmatic mounted light armored archer, had to serve as an example on the battlefield, because their role wasn't just as soldiers, but as philosophers, as teachers, and as politicians
the Ninja, more pragmatic, and also similar to samurai, often trained in subdivisions that were loyal to a given lord, simply did what was expected of them, no questions of morality asked. if the reasons behind these missions were to be revealed, many of them would have issues sleeping, it wasn't that they were dirty by choice, it was that they were accustomed to a rather different lifestyle because they spent their whole lives getting their hands dirty to put bread and water upon their table due to the fact that few would. in fact, most ninja were orphans abandoned by their families and left to die. generally daughters discarded so families could feed their sons. because japan had a working orphanage system of sorts, where abandoned children could be put to a use desired by the lord, unless a particular samurai wants another sword polisher or...
Exactly. When I pointed such out, the player didn't want to hear it. He preferred to believe in all the movies and legends about Samurai vs Ninja, how Samurai would behead a belligerent commoner and suffer no repurcussion (even going so far as to claim they would be heralded as an exemplar of their class), and so on. Citing some legend I can't recall at the moment, about an old monk that was crossing a bridge, nodded ever so slightly at some passing man, who either didn't see it, or something. So the guy didn't nod back. Monk spun around and decapitated the guy... And this was both perfectly acceptable and even encouraged.
This was the same guy who professed to be a practicing Buddhist, yet couldn't let go of deep-seeded grudges over trivial matters, tried to convert everyone to his way of thinking, and was always emotional when someone proved to be stubborn in disagreeing with him.
To both ends, I lent him some books I had on Zen Buddhism, martial arts (particularly Living The Martial Way), and a few other things. He claimed to have read them when I got them back a couple weeks later... And showed no signs of improvement, nor even understanding of his blatant hypocrisy. I even asked him about certain parts of the books, and philosophies contained therein. Only got a blank stare, or he cited his personal thoughts on the matter and didn't reference the books at all. He was the dude who wanted to read them when I mentioned them, and he didn't even bother...
I enjoyed very much, on that final day, telling him straight to his face he was a hypocritical child. Did I mention he suffers "Bigger, batter, better, worse syndrome"? My term for those people who just have to have done everything you've ever done only better, and suffered everything you've ever suffered but worse, and somehow be both pitied for it while simultaneously being worshiped as better.
Yeah, no, seriously though... All the historical documents in the world wouldn't persuade this guy, despite claims he 'studied it extensively'.
if you want him to look at a good example of Samurai and Ninja who serve the same lord, tell him to Watch Captain America, the Winter Soldier and examine the 2 lead avengers in the film.
Samurai had a code of conduct they had to follow, and beheading a belligerent commoner for simply being a belligerent drunk was against the code. the real untrustworthy individuals, were not the ninja, but those Shifty Ronin who did any job in exchange for enough cash. Ronin was a word meaning Wandering Mercenary. it didn't exclusively refer to samurai, it referred to anyone whose main priority and main loyalty was the reward of financial wealth.
i haven't read about Zen Bhuddism, but i heard that Bhuddists try to be peaceful and insightful, rather than impulsive and irrational. in fact, i would consider a proper bhuddist who follows the teachings, more open minded than half the monotheists in my neighborhood.
Pretty much. Fortunately, we don't play with that group anymore. After he had the gall to blame each and every thing that went wrong on my fiance (screaming at many points), that was the last straw. Guy's lucky I didn't up and beat him with a chair with some of what he was saying. For someone who tells a person with bipolar disorder and massive paranoia to "leave their baggage at the door", he was very poor at following his own statement. We don't even speak with him anymore, even though he had the nerve to tell me that I'd be welcome back to the game, but my fiance would not.
I could pretty much summarize Buddhism in one word: Detachment. It's a whole heck of a lot more than that, but in essence, the basic idea is to not dwell on things, and don't get so emotional. I'm so not doing it justice, but I'm a little too brain-fried to explain it in detail. Best example would have to be the motto "go with the flow". In the "whatever man" kind of way, not the follows-the-crowd kind of way. Above-it-all, one could say.
Course, that's looking at it from a more logical/fact standpoint. I don't actively practice it, but I have jacked some of it's ideals to use for what makes sense to me (along with various other religions and philosophies).
Meh. I want to delete this post. The way I described Buddhism burns my eyes... But I'm too tired to care atm. I'm off to bed... Or more likely my insomnia will have me laying there making stories about the shadows on the ceiling. Maybe a fellow forum-goer will be able to elaborate more.
Two big ones:
The player who was playing a Kender-not-Kender (a halfling that was for all intents and purposes a direct clone of all the most annoying parts of the Kender from the Dragonlance novels) and deliberately screwed with the rest of the party every chance she got. She did this with every character. Period. And then got absurdly out-of-character offended (nearly throwing a temper tantrum) when ONE TIME someone got annoyed and did something to her.
Second story, different person. When asked if he had a backstory prepared, the following sentence came out of this player's mouth: "Is it essential?"
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"Is it essential?"
Only if you want me to believe you do not wish for your characters to die early, often, and foolishly.
If 'recon chicken' is a better backstory than you give me, then your backstory is 'hello, my name is recon chicken.'
In soviet russia, adventure will find you.
a player in a game i was part of didnt want to write the "mandatory" 1.5 page back story. so he instead blew up the words AMNESIA and printed them on 1.5 sheets. the dm took the opportunity to come up with his very own back story for the character. needless to say the character was gay and had a tendency to shop uncontrollably. the reason as we found out he had amnesia was that he was trampled at a shoe sale. the player expressed his frustration at his past and refused to roleplay it at all. i just kept telling him "if the dm says your a shopping adict demand the ability to quickly find good deals on magical footwear and go with it" instead he became a self hating homosexual that refused to wear shoes or be part of the party at all.Seriously, if you're going to give the DM free reign with your background, be prepared to get dumped on.
Wow, that is a jerk of a GM.
In the game I currently run I have a player and good friend who wanted to play a character with Amnesia and I am tasked to provide him a backstory. It is a real honor that he gives me that trust and I'm doing my best to give him a rich background that is unlike anything he has experienced.
-MD
Wow, that is a jerk of a GM.
In the game I currently run I have a player and good friend who wanted to play a character with Amnesia and I am tasked to provide him a backstory. It is a real honor that he gives me that trust and I'm doing my best to give him a rich background that is unlike anything he has experienced.
-MD
I think it's more the point that the person didn't even want to put any effort into it. He probably didn't say "Look, I'd really like to play an amnesiac, could you help me put a background together that meshes with your story line?"
He probably was just the type that didn't want to put the effort in, like "Yeah, I don't feel like coming up with something, I just want to play and writing is boring so, I'll be an amnesiac, then I don't have to think."
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I mean, seriously, how hard is it to come up with something like: "I was born on a farm to some farmers who worked really hard, but I was born with a black thumb and everything I tried to grow or tend seemed to die. So my parents sent me to my uncle to train as a guard and I realized I was really good at sword work. About the time I was going to graduate from the academy, a caravan came along needing guards and my uncle gave me a good recommendation. I've been adventuring ever since and I'm looking for my next gig."
The above was typed as stream of consciousness and, in no way, reflects my ability to use proper grammar. :)
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I mean, seriously, how hard is it to come up with something like: "I was born on a farm to some farmers who worked really hard, but I was born with a black thumb and everything I tried to grow or tend seemed to die. So my parents sent me to my uncle to train as a guard and I realized I was really good at sword work. About the time I was going to graduate from the academy, a caravan came along needing guards and my uncle gave me a good recommendation. I've been adventuring ever since and I'm looking for my next gig."
The above was typed as stream of consciousness and, in no way, reflects my ability to use proper grammar. :)
Not that hard, but it does lack motivation. Most of my characters have some kind of motivation, it doesn't matter if it's finding your lost clan or preaching the unholy word of Asmodeus. Those kind of things are hard to do in adventurepaths though. (Except for the latter in Way of the Wicked.)
I think a background should tell something about the character, not just what he does.As for amnesia, I still have to play a Half-Elf summoner who is introduced to the party while being chased by her Eidolon.
I mean, seriously, how hard is it to come up with something like: "I was born on a farm to some farmers who worked really hard, but I was born with a black thumb and everything I tried to grow or tend seemed to die. So my parents sent me to my uncle to train as a guard and I realized I was really good at sword work. About the time I was going to graduate from the academy, a caravan came along needing guards and my uncle gave me a good recommendation. I've been adventuring ever since and I'm looking for my next gig."
I have had some GM's that would be more upset by this than amnesia or nothing. They want an exciting and rich story before you even start adventuring.
I meant it's not hard to come up with something even off the top of your head. My personal background stories are usually much more involved, but I wrote that in 3 minutes. Give me 10 and I'll come up with a back story complete with motivation, traits and even something about my "family". The point is, it's not that difficult to throw something together. The motivation for the background I put up there could have to do with making their fortune because they fell in love with the merchant's daughter whom they were working for, but the merchant wouldn't give his blessing until the guy went out into the world and proved himself.
How can a GM be more upset by a short story that can easily be expanded upon than "nothing" or "amnesia"? How is that exciting and/or rich?
You sir, have just given me a wonderful character idea. A human who's family is so diverse (and randy), that practically every big bad, or even small bad, every high level power player, every person of importance, is in some way related to him. Not that he gets anything out of it, they'd usually be like his 35th cousin thrice removed by marriage, or something, but the point still stands, lol.I read the 'your family dies on a 01' as needing to create a genealogist? Hey, you we are like 22nd cousins! Oh yeah, the king is my 30th cousin. Yep, no that I get much out of it, related via a someone that was the ancestor of the person that ascended to Kingship.
Just keep mentioning that you are related to all your opponents "Hey, yeah that Bandit leader is like my third cousin thrice removed!"
So, like a shorter term Mitochondrial Eve?
I tend to keep my backgrounds pretty vague until I've played a few sessions. I don't want to put the time in until I know that I actually like playing the character. I've discovered that just because a concept seems interesting on paper, it might not be once actual play starts, especially if it conflicts too much with other characters either through mechanics or roleplay. Once I know things are good, I start adding tidbits here and there (with approval of the GM of course) as the game goes on. I started out one game with a village blacksmith who was secretly a disillusioned soldier from the just finished war and it blossomed into one of the best backstories I've ever come up with.
Right, the more you play the character, the more it comes alive. Starting with a simple background doesn't make the character uninteresting, it makes it so you can learn who the character is as you play. But you have to start from somewhere even if it's "I was raised by farmers but was bad at farming." Amnesia can be a fun one if you know what you're doing, but not everyone does and not every GM wants to be saddled with making up your background out of whole cloth. And no background at all is even worse.
So, like a shorter term Mitochondrial Eve?You sir, have just given me a wonderful character idea. A human who's family is so diverse (and randy), that practically every big bad, or even small bad, every high level power player, every person of importance, is in some way related to him. Not that he gets anything out of it, they'd usually be like his 35th cousin thrice removed by marriage, or something, but the point still stands, lol.I read the 'your family dies on a 01' as needing to create a genealogist? Hey, you we are like 22nd cousins! Oh yeah, the king is my 30th cousin. Yep, no that I get much out of it, related via a someone that was the ancestor of the person that ascended to Kingship.
Just keep mentioning that you are related to all your opponents "Hey, yeah that Bandit leader is like my third cousin thrice removed!"
Yes... More or less. I was thinking something more along the lines from the Lestat novels. More "recent", as it were. Plus, I'd only read about the Mitochondrial Eve like, twice before, and completely forgot about it, lol.
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How can a GM be more upset by a short story that can easily be expanded upon than "nothing" or "amnesia"? How is that exciting and/or rich?
Since it isn't me, I can't be sure. But I believe the reasoning (such as it is) goes something like this.
With 'nothing' the response seems to be, "Ok this player won't participate in this part of the game. At least I'm free to make something up and use it as I see fit."
With 'simple, short, boring' the response seems to be something like He's throwing my reasonable request for a story in my face, That gives me nothing to work with but still limits me from coming up with something, and/or If you're not going to take it seriously and do a worthwhile job just forget it.
I think it is mostly a matter of being offended by not taking a particular aspect of the art as seriously as they do.
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On the other hand. If
... "I was born on a farm to some farmers who worked really hard, but I was born with a black thumb and everything I tried to grow or tend seemed to die. So my parents sent me to my uncle to train as a guard and I realized I was really good at sword work. About the time I was going to graduate from the academy, a caravan came along needing guards and my uncle gave me a good recommendation. I've been adventuring ever since and I'm looking for my next gig." ...
is good enough, I can see the point of people who say "Why should I even bother coming up with a back story if something that simplistic is good enough? It doesn't provide the GM with anything of any useful significance."
I don't get the GM's that expect a full, exciting, and rich history before 1st level. Ok, that just doesn't make sense. First; pre-teens don't topple governments (except maybe in Harry Potter). Second; if their history was that full, rich, and exciting, why aren't they back home managing their full rich and exciting life rather than investigating why a few horses are missing on the edge of town (remember adventures that 1st level PC's can handle).
Almost every time I read one of those 'ideal' full, rich, and exciting back stories I have 2 responses. Why are you not 7th level? And why are you here with us 1st level inexperienced puds?
Don't get me wrong, I try to come up with an at least moderately detailed backstory. (Though I do tend to come up with it over the first few play sessions as I decide on a personality rather, than before I create the character.) I usually try to throw at least a couple things in there that a GM could hang something on if he chooses. Only very rarely has a GM made use of any of my backstory.
When I am GM and a player comes up with something fairly unique I will try to make use of it. But if the player only puts together something very bland that's only 3 lines long, I don't feel any real drive to try and include something that obviously was not a central to the player within the campaign.
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A lot of interesting stuff here... which is why I keep a few simple backstory rules (for myself & players):
-No more than 1/2-1 page long: I appreciate your effort if you write more, but I only have so much time to read the backstory & work on the game.
-No backstory will confer any significant mechanical advantage: your backstory will never give you something that is of much mechanical significance (unless defined by traits/feats/etc.). It may give contacts/assistance, at GM discretion.
-I refuse amnesia as a backstory.
I consider it fortunate that I havent had any too afwul backstories, though some silly stuff (like a dwarven fighter/baker that was entertaining).
I don't get the GM's that expect a full, exciting, and rich history before 1st level. Ok, that just doesn't make sense. First; pre-teens don't topple governments (except maybe in Harry Potter). Second; if their history was that full, rich, and exciting, why aren't they back home managing their full rich and exciting life rather than investigating why a few horses are missing on the edge of town (remember adventures that 1st level PC's can handle).
Almost every time I read one of those 'ideal' full, rich, and exciting back stories I have 2 responses. Why are you not 7th level? And why are you here with us 1st level inexperienced puds?
Considering I never start at 1st level - I and my players prefer 2nd or 3rd - I generally expect at least one level's worth of stuff in backstory, even if it's just the basics of your training and a handful of experiences in your travels.
Considering I never start at 1st level - I and my players prefer 2nd or 3rd - I generally expect at least one level's worth of stuff in backstory, even if it's just the basics of your training and a handful of experiences in your travels.I don't get the GM's that expect a full, exciting, and rich history before 1st level. Ok, that just doesn't make sense. First; pre-teens don't topple governments (except maybe in Harry Potter). Second; if their history was that full, rich, and exciting, why aren't they back home managing their full rich and exciting life rather than investigating why a few horses are missing on the edge of town (remember adventures that 1st level PC's can handle).
Almost every time I read one of those 'ideal' full, rich, and exciting back stories I have 2 responses. Why are you not 7th level? And why are you here with us 1st level inexperienced puds?
Exactly. There's no rule that you have to start at level 1. Not to mention a good backstory should always end where the campaign starts. I tend to leave it vague enough that the GM could start almost anywhere and it would make sense. Then after we start I nail it down with specifics.
By the way, I was also able to come up with a fairly detailed backstory for my level 1 witch that explained why she isn't just sitting at home. That said the GM should start the campaign with something that puts the PCs on the path of adventure.
What I dislike about amnesia as a backstory is that it puts everything on the GM. It's saying "I don't have a backstory so you come up with one because I can't be bothered." I always write my backstories in order to leave some mystery or antagonist for the GM to use or not use in the campaign. As a player, I can prepare myself for how I would interact with the mystery/bad guy. The GM can weave it into the main plot or use it as a filler plot while he maps out the next arc.
Since it isn't me, I can't be sure. But I believe the reasoning (such as it is) goes something like this.
With 'nothing' the response seems to be, "Ok this player won't participate in this part of the game. At least I'm free to make something up and use it as I see fit."
With 'simple, short, boring' the response seems to be something like He's throwing my reasonable request for a story in my face, That gives me nothing to work with but still limits me from coming up with something, and/or If you're not going to take it seriously and do a worthwhile job just forget it.
I think it is mostly a matter of being offended by not taking a particular aspect of the art as seriously as they do.
I don't get the GM's that expect a full, exciting, and rich history before 1st level. Ok, that just doesn't make sense. First; pre-teens don't topple governments (except maybe in Harry Potter). Second; if their history was that full, rich, and exciting, why aren't they back home managing their full rich and exciting life rather than investigating why a few horses are missing on the edge of town (remember adventures...
Okay, I can see your point about the simple, short, boring. Just so you know, I would never submit a back story that short and boring, it was just a quick, off the top of my head, example to prove that actually writing something down is not very hard. I did that without even giving any thought to the character or where it might go. If I were to actually put thought into it, I'd have a few hooks and motivations, but it would still be fairly simple unless I knew exactly what the DM wanted and I really knew at least the beginning of his story line and/or his world.
I agree with thejeff about the fairly minimal back story. It should be just enough to give you an idea about who this character is, but not enough to push the GM into any corners. Also, I agree with TZO about written at the table. I think the players should discuss the beginning plot hooks with the GM before writing any kind of background so the PCs at least have an idea what kind of hooks they need in their backgrounds.