I'm wondering if Battle Dance affects Inspire Courage, and other bardic performances gained from sources/classes other than bard.
Wording seems to imply "yes" for the exemplar at least. This excites me.
No, because Battle Dance replaces a bards bardic performance for the bard progression. The other classes bardic performance wouldn't be effected at all. Each would have it's own pool of uses and use their levels to see how strong their own song/dance would be.
Quote: When a dervish of dawn uses the inspire courage, inspire greatness, or inspire heroics bardic performance types as battle dances, these performance types only provide benefit to the dervish himself. All other types of bardic performance work normally (affecting the bard and his allies, or the bard’s enemies, as appropriate). I dunno, seems to me that it should work. Use inspire courage as a battle dance; it does not specify it has to be Inspire courage from the Bard class.
Even besides that, Exemplar's wording is
Quote: At 3rd level, an exemplar gains the ability to use certain bardic performances. She can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier; this increases by 1 round per brawler level thereafter. The exemplar's effective bard level for this ability is equal to her brawler level – 2. At 3rd level, the exemplar can use inspire courage. At 11th level, the exemplar can use inspire greatness. At 15th level, the exemplar can use inspire heroics. Instead of the Perform skill, she activates this ability with impressive flourishes and displays of martial talent (this uses visual components).
This ability otherwise functions as bardic performance; feats and other effects that affect bardic performance (such as the Extra Performance feat) apply to it.
So you could make a case for both it stacking with bard levels (not that strong of a case, admittedly), or just plain counting as bardic performance and being modified by battle dance (as all effects that affect normal bardic performance work on it; which battle dance is one of).
It's not as strong as it looks at first glance since you never advance it beyond being a move action. Still pretty nice though.
The bard traded bardic perfomance inspire courage for battle dance inspire courage. the exemplar isn't that bard, it's a brawler. The classes don't combine
Except it says When a dervish of dawn uses the inspire courage, and This ability alters the standard bardic performance ability not replaces it.
The dervish of dawn retains the normal Inspire courage performance, he can just also it as a battle dance.
look I gave you my view of the answer. You're using bad logic. A bard has battle dances. Separate from non-battle dance. He's not modding the other use, he has a new use.
But, that's not what the ability says? It literally says 'When a dervish of dawn uses the inspire courage, inspire greatness, or inspire heroics bardic performance types as battle dances'.
So I'm not sure where you get your interpretation from?
And can a exemplar use them as a battle dance? no. When the bard uses the bard battle dance. Because only the bard gives him battle dance options.
The exemplar has an effective bard level, and this ability counts the same as inspire courage and a bardic performance. Battle dance makes no distinction between Inspire Courage from the bard, or from any other source.
Even besides that, you could make the argument that since the exemplar has an effective bard level, these levels should stack, and battledance could be used for the bardic performance, just advanced by exemplar (by its level-2).
Other example of similar stacking would be Sohei weapon training, or Myrmidarch Magus Armor training stacking with the fighter ability of the same name. This had been FAQd before.
no a similar ability would be channel energy. A paladin uses her level as her effective cleric level when channeling positive energy. Since he has an effective cleric level, according to you we should have it stack with the cleric for this ability.
But no, if you have uses they are separate. This was reemphasized in the ACG talking about how the "extra ____" feats work.
Heck while you're at it stacking stuff, lets combine my wizard's and sorcerer's caster levels together. Oh I know I'll also add my character level since I have a SLA and it gives me an effective caster level, so all these caster levels should stack.
here is another ability where you have "effective class"
"Starting at 10th level, a magus counts 1/2 his total magus level as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has levels in fighter, these levels stack."
Here it specifically calls out they stack. Why? because otherwise they wouldn't.
Now when a dervish of dawn uses the [inspire courage], [inspire greatness], or [inspire heroics] [bardic performance types] as [battle dances].
When a dervish of dawn uses inspire courage as a battle dance. Now, can the Exemplar use inspire courage as a battle dance? No. Do the levels stack? doesn't say so so no.
Now I'm done with this. I don't need to debate this anymore. My stance has been made and supported. I feel yours doesn't have rules backing it.
You are correct about the stacking and I should not have brought it up because it have just muddled the argument. Apologies.
It's funny you bring up spellcasting, because while it is true that caster levels/spells per day/whatever don't stack, class abilities that just say "spells" (braconic bloodline, spellsinger wizard, whatever) DO stack/work with the other classes spells, because the ability doesn't explicitly call out "wizard" or "sorcerer" spells.
Similarly, in the paladin and cleric case, while their pools and power doesn't stack, if you took a feat that modified channeling it'd affect both, because they are both channel energy.
And Battle Dance would work because both abilities count as inspire courage.
But you are right, we both made our cases, there's really no reason to continue this.
Chess Pwn is correct in his interpretations.
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