Undead and self-preservation....


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Shadow Lodge

What undead would have self-preservation? Would any or all intelligent undead have self-preservation so that they'd retreat from a losing fight?

Shadow Lodge

Intelligent undead yes. Lich have their phylactery for a reason. Vampires turn gaseous and return to their coffins. Mindless undead, well they are just cannon fodder so, no. And remember that most important rule of the BBEG, "Runaway today, and live to fight another day!"


That really depends on the undead, doesn't it? I mean, a naked lich away from his phylactery doesn't care at all and probably hurled himself into 20 or 30 deaths out of boredom/curiosity. I think vampires have something similar with reforming, but they kept enough of their flesh it probably hurts. All of the mindless undead are just hunting for their food. The smarter ones (especially the former humans) probably have the same self-preservation they did in life. Mummies are trickier as guardian mummies are probably "fight to the death" type but entombed royalty/criminals probably behave more like people.

So short answer, mindless are mindless with no self-preservation and returned humans act like they did in life unless they can come back to life, then they can be as reckless as they want.

Sovereign Court

Lich entire unlife is preservation, mostly why you have the stereotypes of Liches living in dark ruins/dungeons. They focus so much on not dying, it's basically their entire subplot.

Mummies while intelligent on the other hand, would fight until total destruction of invaders or tomb raiders even if they have to die for it.


Eltacolibre wrote:

Lich entire unlife is preservation, mostly why you have the stereotypes of Liches living in dark ruins/dungeons. They focus so much on not dying, it's basically their entire subplot.

Mummies while intelligent on the other hand, would fight until total destruction of invaders or tomb raiders even if they have to die for it.

To some extent... For instance, many a lich are formed because said caster was working on soething and didn't want something as mundane as death to stop them. There are some who are legitimately afraid of dying, but even those would probably end up getting more and more reckless because they have no real threat of dying. With a smart enough lich, you pretty much are unstoppable until the plot deems it otherwise (somehow some adventuring party just happened to find your long lost diary that you never wrote about your phyactery and what it looks like and where it is... because that information is totally knowable... its not like he totally put his phyactery in an Lead lined room on his own personal demi-plane with a bunch of false phylacteries...)


Eltacolibre wrote:

Lich entire unlife is preservation, mostly why you have the stereotypes of Liches living in dark ruins/dungeons. They focus so much on not dying, it's basically their entire subplot.

Mummies while intelligent on the other hand, would fight until total destruction of invaders or tomb raiders even if they have to die for it.

Oh, that reminds me of the Daily Bestiary's nice deconstruction and comparison between liches, who are spellcasters that couldn't cut it for regular immortality and thus settled, and the worm that walks who have a fast and loose lifestyle.

The worm that walks is the spellcaster who lives by his desires and ambitions, and then dies by them, and then rises again by them. Turning into something that is dead, but filled with teeming, squirming life, he decides to make the most out of the creepy cards dealt.

Essentially, he is the one that is out trying to summon alien gods to break the world (because reasons) while the lich is scheming in a dungeon and just waiting out the current batch of heroes' lifespans. He is the one that shove big glowly magical crystals into his chest based off of vague folk tales of unlimited power. He is the guy that sends all of his troops into an obvious trap set by the rebels because he has waited like....weeks.... in order to wipe them out. He is the guy that uses explosive spells in an unstable mine because THOSE HEROES ....JUST ....WON'T ....DIE!

The worm that walks is the guy that, while hanging on for dear life to a hand, would try shooting the hero that valiantly saves his enemies from falling off the exploded skyscrapper.... because ef it and ef you.

Death didn't stop them the first time he was left gutted in a ditch, so what is it going to do now?


Some undead like ghouls are driven by hunger. Even though intelligent I could see them in circumstances where they are so hungry they just wouldn't retreat.


It depends too much on the undead.

If they're intelligent, they would try to stay "alive", for logical reasons if they're not capable of emotion. Even a lich doesn't want to die, because it might not be back for a while, and who knows what could happen during that time? Phylactery smash? A vampire that turns into a cloud might still not make it home (and could turn into a cloud under its own power, enabling it to take solid form later).

Non-intelligent undead, by contrast, will suicidally stride through walls of fire to get at you.

Fanatics such as mummies won't mind dying, but probably won't stupidly charge through fire. They'll try to inflict as much hurt as possible before final death, including inflicting curses or diseases, of course.

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