I may be starting a campaign as an investigator soon. I'm curious what people's opinions on the most effective way to build one would be. This would a 5 person party and the other people express interest in playing a paladin, witch, barbarian, and inquisitor or cleric.
I don't know what stats I will have as they will be rolled or something similar. I'll be going empiricist because intelligence. Student of philosophy is a must. I really see two paths to take and am curious what talents, etc. would be useful for each.
1) focus on melee combat
-stat priorities would be str > int > con
2) focus on ranged combat
-stat priorities would be dex > int > str
-very feat intensive from archery stuff and needing weapon focus and ranged study
3) focus on skills
-wonderful outside of combat, but I wouldn't like it
Both 1 and 2 will be fairly lackluster until studied combat is obtained.
I would focus on skill and try and be decent in Melee. With fast drinker trait and Springloaded wristsheaths you can drink your extracts as a swift action. Using a Whip, drink TrueStrike extract, and BAM! BBEG is laying on his back.
I would focus on skill and try and be decent in Melee. With fast drinker trait and Springloaded wristsheaths you can drink your extracts as a swift action. Using a Whip, drink TrueStrike extract, and BAM! BBEG is laying on his back.
This doesn't work; extracts don't work with Fast Drinker and Investigators don't get whip proficiency.
The TL;DR is focus on Int over Str or Dex, then choose one of the two. If Dex a Swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) dip can save you several feats and get you some nice toys and BAB to make an excellent rapier build.
Beyond that, get Mutagen and an Inspired weapon by level 9 and go to town.
(And without even really trying, you'll still embarrass everyone else at skill stuff.)
The investigator is not a PC class for at least two levels, three unless you can guarantee that all fighting is within the duration of your mutagen or that you can have an hour in a lab between fights. A five person group with a paladin and barbarian can carry you, but you're going to need to be carried for longer than any other class besides the rogue, mystic theurge, or an eldritch knight not taking advantage of the SLA ruling.
Studied Combat requires int 16 to get a useful duration so depending on your rolls you may be stuck going int primary.
RainyDayNinja
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
Depending on how the cleric/inquisitor is built, it looks like you'll already have two or three melee PCs and no ranged damage, so you might focus on ranged attacking and skills.
Alternatively, you could pick up the Effortless Aid talent and the Adopted trait to get the Helpful trait, for +4 Aid Another as a move action to assist your heavy hitters.
The investigator is not a PC class for at least two levels, three unless you can guarantee that all fighting is within the duration of your mutagen or that you can have an hour in a lab between fights. A five person group with a paladin and barbarian can carry you, but you're going to need to be carried for longer than any other class besides the rogue, mystic theurge, or an eldritch knight not taking advantage of the SLA ruling.
Studied Combat requires int 16 to get a useful duration so depending on your rolls you may be stuck going int primary.
Oh lord isn't low level painful?
An int focus is the strongest in the long run. Make judicious use of studied combat, inspiration, and some strong extracts and you are in very solid shape without mutagens (which incidentally kill your int).
A Str focus is better in the earlier game but you won't be able to stretch inspiration or studied combat as far.
A Dex Mutagen kills Wis instead of Str, and you already have a strong Will save; Dex is more feat intensive to be sure, but in the long run, definitely works out much more strongly; starting as a level 1 Swashbuckler goes miles to make the early going easier, but it'll take longer before you fully come into your own as a result.
A Dex Mutagen kills Wis instead of Str, and you already have a strong Will save; Dex is more feat intensive to be sure, but in the long run, definitely works out much more strongly; starting as a level 1 Swashbuckler goes miles to make the early going easier, but it'll take longer before you fully come into your own as a result.
I just don't agree. Such intensive usage of feats, in my opinion, would be much better off used for archery. More attacks per round, not in melee which makes armor and hit points less of an issue, and you can safely use extracts during combat.
Going strength opens up allllll those feats for amazing stuff though.
A Dex Mutagen kills Wis instead of Str, and you already have a strong Will save; Dex is more feat intensive to be sure, but in the long run, definitely works out much more strongly; starting as a level 1 Swashbuckler goes miles to make the early going easier, but it'll take longer before you fully come into your own as a result.
I just don't agree. Such intensive usage of feats, in my opinion, would be much better off used for archery. More attacks per round, not in melee which makes armor and hit points less of an issue, and you can safely use extracts during combat.
Going strength opens up allllll those feats for amazing stuff though.
I like archery even less.
To get something dex based melee online you only need Weapon Finnesse and Fencing Grace (or do what I did and go the weapon finnesse twf route).
To make archery work you need bow proficiency(not automatic for investigators) + weapon focus + ranged study. And you still need to get point blank shot.
To get something dex based melee online you only need Weapon Finnesse and Fencing Grace (or do what I did and go the weapon finnesse twf route).
To make archery work you need bow proficiency(not automatic for investigators) + weapon focus + ranged study. And you still need to get point blank shot.
Also, you can't get an Inspired Bow, and the Inspired weapon enchant is really good. I'd rather use the feat for Rapid Reload and use a Hand Crossbow than get now proficiency, but then you're using a hand crossbow.
That enchant is just too good to leave on the table, and needs to factor into any decision to use a weapon not on the a Investigator default list.
Eh. I'd build switch hitable or ranged then. weapon focus and ranged study is kinda painful feat though. It is pretty feat intensive but it's also pretty nifty for your group set up (assuming they're mostly melee) I usually go infusion over mutagen, but I usually hand out extracts like candy haha.Mutagen isn't bad (though I don't use it much, because it doesn't last long enough/don't have an hour to brew it repeatedly).
i love xbows but bows are easier to work with, and get stuff like manyshots. Though if you don't multiclass then really they are the same. Since you'll either have to pay rapid reload for xbow, or feat prof for a bow.
Though If you are going switch hitter I strongly encourage inspiried swasbuckler. That will net you some goodness wit ha rapier, and martial weapons (though not dex to damage but not a big deal if your mostly range but having a rapier would be good) . I'm making an investigator similiar to his, but al so dipping Bolt Ace, and using one or two repeating hand xbow and a double xbow (still debating or oversized light xbow.
but overall I vote Dex.
Note:
I really wish Ranged Study was a talent you could take and not a feat. weapon focus + ranged study + all you need for ranged (especially xbow) really kinda makes it really difficult to use , unless you start out as a fighter or something. (Lol. I hadn't noticed the weapon focus prereq before. but this kills my studied combat -one shot a round character I was making)
I don't know what the inspiried weapon enchantment is. but sounds good...
Generalist Human investigator starting stats 20 point buy:
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
At max with items and +1 inherent bonus to int
Str 20, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 28, Wis 16, Cha 16
Stats after extrat buffs and mutagen(dex) for range (Diminutive) [Undead anatomy III] {Diminutive skeleton}
Str 16, Dex 30, Con 20, Int 28, Wis 16*, Cha 16
*Stable mutagen vest
To hit: +15 BAB + 10 dex + 5 enh + 10 studied combat - 4 DA + 3 size = +39
Damage: +3 str + 1d2 short bow + 5 enh + 8 DA + 10 SC = 27.5
Transformation+UAIII+haste+heroism:
+45/45/40/35/30 for 1d2+32
UAIII+heroism
+41/36/31 for 1d2+28
Generalist Human investigator starting stats 20 point buy:
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
At max with items and +1 inherent bonus to int
Str 20, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 28, Wis 16, Cha 16
Stats after extrat buffs and mutagen for melee (Large)[Giant Form I]
Str 30, Dex 18, Con 24, Int 28*, Wis 16, Cha 16
*Stable mutagen vest
To hit with buffs: +20 BAB(transformation) + 10 str + 5 enh + 10 studied combat - 6 PA - 1 large = +38
Damage: +15 str + 2d6 spear + 5 enh + 18 PA + 10 SC = 55
So: +38/33/28/23 for 2d6+48
Without transformation (just Giant Form I)
+33/28/23 for 2d6+42
With transformation + heroism + haste
+41/41/36/31/26 for 2d6+50
What's needed: Feats(deadly aim, power attack), talents(Mutagen), starting 14 strength, starting 14 dex.
I recommend pumping int, you don't need high dex or strength to excel in combat.
This build has 9 feats and 8 talents unfilled to do whatever you want with them.
I don't know what the inspiried weapon enchantment is. but sounds good...
From the ACG:
This special ability can be placed only on simple weapons, hand crossbows, rapiers, shortbows, short swords, and sword canes. In the hands of an investigator, an inspired weapon reduces the cost of using inspiration on attack rolls made with the weapon. The weapon’s wielder needs to expend only one use of inspiration to augment his attack rolls with this weapon, as with the combat inspiration investigator talent. If the wielder already has the combat inspiration talent, the wielder must still expend one use of inspiration, but in addition to adding the result of the inspiration roll to the attack roll, the investigator adds twice the result of the inspiration roll to the weapon’s damage roll.
It's a flat +2d8 (+level/4 if half-elf) damage to your attacks every time you spend a point of Inspiration.
Also, I just realized it can be used on Shortbows. That actually opens up a lot of options...
And I just realized investigators are proficient in them. That does open up options better. But, still kills me to have a two feat tax to use ranged study.
And I just realized investigators are proficient in them. That does open up options better. But, still kills me to have a two feat tax to use ranged study.
I did not notice that.
Apparently the numbers I posted above require 4 feats not two.
To get something dex based melee online you only need Weapon Finnesse and Fencing Grace (or do what I did and go the weapon finnesse twf route).
To make archery work you need bow proficiency(not automatic for investigators) + weapon focus + ranged study. And you still need to get point blank shot.
Fencing Grace technically doesn't exist yet, so that's not an option. I'm against two weapon fighting, especially when there's no sneak attacks.
I always strongly suggest that all characters in a party have some role in combat, so here's how I helped build an investigator for a friend of mine in the playtest (and some changes I'd make w/ the final version).
First: Your role isn't damage. If we go on the forge of combat analogy, you're not the hammer, you're an Arm. Your job is the facilitation of party damage. The best way I found to do this was through debuffs. You can take the enfocer/bludgeoner route (intimidate any enemy damaged by your nonlethal damage) and either a cruel weapon or the sickening offensive investigator talent later on. You can also go the trip route with some weapons, or if you don't want to get in your allies way, use a polearm and the Spear Dancer feat to inflict the dazzled condition. Stat priority, Int>Str>Con>Dex>Wis>Cha. Use Studied combat for the huge bonus to attack rolls, ignore the badness that is studied strike, and keep your opponents from being a threat to your party! (I mean really, later on when you have bludgeoner/enforcer, a polearm like a lucern hammer, cruel and spear dancer, you're easily inflicting a -5 to attack on any enemy).
Huh I did not notice they had shortbow.. Weirdly my brain edited out short bow and inserted whip in the listing.
Also I like that weapon enchantment. Though, kinda sucks for any investigator who wants to use any other weapon. (like my double xbow). Granted I don't know how often one would use their inspiration in battle. I guess it'll depend on how it looks once I play one sometime.
Note about the various debuffs. I just noted that the debuffs on studied strikes don't specify melee, so with the ranged studied strike, you could apply that as well.
I always strongly suggest that all characters in a party have some role in combat, so here's how I helped build an investigator for a friend of mine in the playtest (and some changes I'd make w/ the final version).
First: Your role isn't damage. If we go on the forge of combat analogy, you're not the hammer, you're an Arm. Your job is the facilitation of party damage. The best way I found to do this was through debuffs. You can take the enfocer/bludgeoner route (intimidate any enemy damaged by your nonlethal damage) and either a cruel weapon or the sickening offensive investigator talent later on. You can also go the trip route with some weapons, or if you don't want to get in your allies way, use a polearm and the Spear Dancer feat to inflict the dazzled condition. Stat priority, Int>Str>Con>Dex>Wis>Cha. Use Studied combat for the huge bonus to attack rolls, ignore the badness that is studied strike, and keep your opponents from being a threat to your party! (I mean really, later on when you have bludgeoner/enforcer, a polearm like a lucern hammer, cruel and spear dancer, you're easily inflicting a -5 to attack on any enemy).
Honestly, I really like this, minus the sickening offensive since it requires level 13. I may not be able to get Int for Intimidate though. The only way I know of is a couple traits.
At low levels you somewhat lackluster to hit isn't a big deal.
At level 2, you will be fighting mostly CR1/2 or CR1 monsters, so a AC 11-12. At level 2 you have a Mwk weapon and +1 BAB. So even a Str 12 nets a +3 to hit. This means you have to roll an 8 or 9 to hit, so 40-45% chance, this drops to 6 or 7 if you are flanking. This number goes up even higher if you use buff extracts
A level 2 fighter will only have a +8 to hit(BAB +2, Str 18 +4, Weapon Focus +1, mwk +1). This means he has to roll a 3 or 4 to hit, so a 15-20% chance to hit.
So compare a Class that is 100% not combat focused (Investigator) with the class that is supposed to be the best at combat at every level all day long, you only have a 25% less chance to hit. Really not that bad since the fighter had to invest 8 more points in point buy and a feat. Oh and you are useful all day long, where as the Fighter is only good during a fight.
Also, you're pretty much in the same boat as the Cleric and no one ever complained that the cleric wasn't any good in combat.
Here's my Mwangi human investigator for PFS. I can't decide on a second trait.
Upelelezi Kidogo:
Upelelezi Kidogo
Human (Mwangi) Investigator (Empiricist) 1
N Medium humanoid (human)
Init +1; Senses Perception +4
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Defense
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AC 15, touch 11, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +1 Dex)
hp 10 (1d8+2)
Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +2
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee morningstar +3 (1d8+3)
Investigator (Empiricist) Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +5):
1st—shield, shield
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Statistics
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Str 16, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 7
Base Atk +0; CMB +3; CMD 14
Feats Bludgeoner[UC], Enforcer[APG]
Traits bruising intellect
Skills Craft (alchemy) +8 (+9 to create alchemical items), Intimidate +8, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +8, Knowledge (local) +8, Knowledge (nature) +8, Knowledge (planes) +8, Knowledge (religion) +8, Perception +4, Spellcraft +8, Use Magic Device +2
Languages Abyssal, Common, Goblin, Infernal, Polyglot, Thassilonian
SQ alchemy, inspiration, trapfinding +1
Other Gear lamellar (leather) armor, morningstar, alchemy crafting kit, formula book, thieves' tools, 12 gp
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Special Abilities
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Alchemy +1 (Su) +1 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Bludgeoner Inflict nonlethal damage with bludgeoning weapons
Enforcer If you deal nonlethal damage with a melee weapon, make a free Intimidate check to demoralize.
Inspiration (+1d6, 4/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
Honestly, I really like this, minus the sickening offensive since it requires level 13. I may not be able to get Int for Intimidate though. The only way I know of is a couple traits.
Sickening Offense only requires Level 7, actually. And Bruising Intellect works, though it blocks you from grabbing Student of Philosophy.
@Some Other Guy: Sickening Offensive only requires level 7. The investigator talent Stealing Strike, which is right below it, requires a 13th level. But seriously, don't pick the strikes. Again, an alternative to this is the cruel weapon enchantment (though I don't like it as much, since it requires a second successful attack to get it, which isn't as feasible if you want to do it all in one round)
@ChesterCopperpot: Thanks for the bruising intellect. I forgot to mention it in the build.
Honestly, I really like this, minus the sickening offensive since it requires level 13. I may not be able to get Int for Intimidate though. The only way I know of is a couple traits.
Sickening Offense only requires Level 7, actually. And Bruising Intellect works, though it blocks you from grabbing Student of Philosophy.
Yea, I must have glanced down at Stealing Strike. Reading is hard.
I'm against two weapon fighting, especially when there's no sneak attacks.
Sneak attacks are inferior to studied combat anyway.
Seriously, if you're going to be gimping strength anyway than the only other valid option is to get as many attacks as possible in order to maximize the amount of damage you can do. Two Weapon Fighting works well for this. The bonus to attack is huge and automatically negates the penalty for TWF out of the box. After that it negates the penalty for power attack as well translating into more damage. Since we're playing half elves we have the means to get Arcane Strike as well punching even more damage.
At 6th level with a pair of short swords we're talking about an attack sequence of +8/+8 1d6+7 with 13 strength 16 dex on a studied target.
If you have an agile weapon the damage increases to 1d6+9
At this level I like to ensure I have a heroism potion on hand to use with Alchemical Allocation so we can add another +2 to that attack for a +10.
If we do deign to spend a standard action to buff we can use bulls strength for an additional +2 to attack and damage for a sequence of +12/+12 1d6+9.
That's not a bad set of numbers.
Now the reason I say it plays into the long game is because as time goes on you get more sources of damage that cna go into it.
Really though, I'm exploring natural attack options at the moment. IF I cna find a source of pounce than the investigator looks golden at levels 10+
I really wish my gm's used SLA for arcane strike etc haha. Maybe I'l lbe able to convince them someday.
Also I think Investigator is a really good subject for two weapon fighting. (either two melee or two repeating hand xbow (realods are always an issue though). Studied Combat's bonus to hit and to damage is quite a buff (aslong as precision is applicable). Once they get SC they're basically full bab for a few rounds with a damage bonus.
I really wish my gm's used SLA for arcane strike etc haha. Maybe I'l lbe able to convince them someday.
Also I think Investigator is a really good subject for two weapon fighting. (either two melee or two repeating hand xbow (realods are always an issue though). Studied Combat's bonus to hit and to damage is quite a buff (aslong as precision is applicable). Once they get SC they're basically full bab for a few rounds with a damage bonus.
I would disagree with TWF. It has been for the most part established rogues suck at TWF. I think the investigator is stronger potentially than rogue combat wise, because of studied combat and mutagen, but they have no feat support, 3/4 bab, and their stats are wonky. They prioritize Int above a combat rogue, who would at least have Dex synergy. They also lose out on a round of studied combat/full attacking if they don't have the swift action talent, which once again cuts back on their utility (which is by far the defining feature of this class). To make their damage reasonably good (seeing that str would be third at best, probably fourth since you don't want a low con) they would need serious feat investment in combat (arcane strike, in addition to the TWF feats, maybe extra talent for the combat investigator talents) where the main role of the investigator isn't usually damage (ESPECIALLY if you look at OPs party, a Barb and a paladin??) where the utility build will have arguably more of an impact with less of a feat cost. Just my 2cp.
Can't use repeating hand crossbows without Exotic proficiency, sadly. (Which is dumb, but so it goes.)
That said, I was bored and just started out a level 20 Investigator with Arcane Strike, Weapon Focus, Ranged Study, PBS, TWF, Rapid Shot, Rapid Reload, Deadly Aim, and Crossbow Mastery. Investigator talents are Mutagen, Amazing Inspiration, Combat Inspiration, and Greater Combat Inspiration. There's one feat and 4 investigator talents not spoken for.
Starting at 10/17/17/10/10, putting all points into Int.
Using a pair of +1 Inspired Crossbows and with everything up, and otherwise naked, you're attacking six times +25/+25/+20/+15 / +25/+25, adding 2d8+5 to each attack roll, and dealing 1d4+25 + 4d8 +10 with every shot, or 40-68 per shot, 240-408 for the whole routine.
Not bad, and I built it out totally half assed, but absurdly feat intensive, and takes a very long time to really come into it's own.
Kiinyan wrote:
I would disagree with TWF. It has been for the most part established rogues suck at TWF. I think the investigator is stronger potentially than rogue combat wise, because of studied combat and mutagen, but they have no feat support, 3/4 bab, and their stats are wonky. They prioritize Int above a combat rogue, who would at least have Dex synergy. They also lose out on a round of studied combat/full attacking if they don't have the swift action talent, which once again cuts back on their utility (which is by far the defining feature of this class). To make their damage reasonably good (seeing that str would be third at best, probably fourth since you don't want a low con) they would need serious feat investment in combat (arcane strike, in addition to the TWF feats, maybe extra talent for the combat investigator talents) where the main role of the investigator isn't usually damage (ESPECIALLY if you look at OPs party, a Barb and a paladin??) where the utility build will have arguably more of an impact with less of a feat cost. Just my 2cp.
Studied Combat is a move action even without the talent, which isn't so bad; remember that a Studied Combat provides a scaling bonus to hit as well as damage. After level 4, an Investigator is effectively full BAB against anything that can be hit by precision damage for every purpose other than the number of strikes on a full attack.
Every investigator needs a way to contribute in combat, it is part of the game. And Investigators aren’t too bad at TWF at all in my opinion. As for swift action most if not all investigators who want to use studied combat often (and especially someone who wants to fight in melee) will most likely pick up swift action studied combat. TWF isn’t that feat intensive really, it just depends on how deep into the line you want to go. Just getting the base 3 isn’t a large investment (most builds will have at least 3, more if your long range). You’ll be decent with it, your not required to pick up two weapon rend, double slice, etc. As you said your not the main damage dealer, but your not crappy at it. Yeah, they’ll be INT primary, but int leads directly into their battle ability in afew ways. Primary being studied combat length, and aiding to hit if you wish (especially if your put on Inspired weapon enchantment then you also gain damage). Baring bad rolls or low point buy (In either case your unlikely to build TWF anyway, no matter the class), you likely can get decent int and decent dex. Arcane strike would be nice, if your gm allows the SLA ruling, as extracts don’t count.
Just because you like TWF doesn’t mean your only damage, With the nifty bonuses from studied combat, you really just need the TWFs and the stats for them, not a big deal really. And I’m pretty certain you’l lbe much better at it than a rogue, and still much better at the skills.
I can’t see a reason (other than unlucky stats; but if you had this you wouldn’t be a twf no matter the class really) that you couldn’t spend a few feats to be useful in combat, and still have more than enough talents etc to boost your utility skills. You’d have to invest a few feats to be combat able almost no matter your combat style.
So baring the above situations, I don’t see investigators having too much issue with TWF outside of the normal issues with full round attacking. Your not trying to match the Barb or Paladin, your just trying to be useful in a fight. One shouldn’t compare them to the Murder-Death-Kill guys. (although frankly you can build one that way) If you rather avoid damage completely then you can get a whip proficiency ,and do tons of manuevers and aid anothers.
Also I dont think they can pick up combat talent sadly. Or at least I don't see it in the listing.
Edit: looking at lesspopmorefizz's build note above. TWF and ranged are similiar amount of feats really.
Less pop more fizz:
Oh my bad.. I read it as "hand crossbows" like how inquistor just says "repeating crossbow" and get to use all repeating xbows. so I thought it meant both versions of hand xbow, repeater and not. I wish it did have a plural.. I guess when I play one I might ask my gm if it can be both I guess.. I mean hand xbow is already exotic itself..
Them both being exotic is the reason I thought you had both I guess.
I have no doubt that investigators aren't bad at TWF. They are certainly better than rogues at it. I just find that going the TWF route is solely for the purpose of doing damage, when and investigator, for similar or less investment, contribute more effectively in combat through utility and disruption.
I have no doubt that investigators aren't bad at TWF. They are certainly better than rogues at it. I just find that going the TWF route is solely for the purpose of doing damage, when and investigator, for similar or less investment, contribute more effectively in combat through utility and disruption.
Can't argue with that~ It's just a matter of taste for style.
I'm against two weapon fighting, especially when there's no sneak attacks.
Sneak attacks are inferior to studied combat anyway.
Seriously, if you're going to be gimping strength anyway than the only other valid option is to get as many attacks as possible in order to maximize the amount of damage you can do. Two Weapon Fighting works well for this. The bonus to attack is huge and automatically negates the penalty for TWF out of the box. After that it negates the penalty for power attack as well translating into more damage. Since we're playing half elves we have the means to get Arcane Strike as well punching even more damage.
At 6th level with a pair of short swords we're talking about an attack sequence of +8/+8 1d6+7 with 13 strength 16 dex on a studied target.
If you have an agile weapon the damage increases to 1d6+9
At this level I like to ensure I have a heroism potion on hand to use with Alchemical Allocation so we can add another +2 to that attack for a +10.
If we do deign to spend a standard action to buff we can use bulls strength for an additional +2 to attack and damage for a sequence of +12/+12 1d6+9.
That's not a bad set of numbers.
Now the reason I say it plays into the long game is because as time goes on you get more sources of damage that cna go into it.
Really though, I'm exploring natural attack options at the moment. IF I cna find a source of pounce than the investigator looks golden at levels 10+
I wouldn't even compare sneak attack and studied strike. My statement was because sneak attack itself benefits from more attacks. Studied strike does not.
I still don't like TWF mainly due to the feat and stat requirements. Agile weapons are expensive and don't really come online until level 7-8 from my experience. Since I'm starting at level 1, my damage would tremendously gimped for a while without at least a bit of strength. Also, using short swords you can just take pirahna strike and not need a 13 strength. I would never say that any bonuses "negate" penalties because the same bonuses can be given to non-twf without the -2 being applied.
With that said, I have to say that it looks like twf actually seems to work better for an investigator than any other class simply due to the static bonuses to hit and damage. Damage would be extremely terrible until level 4 though.
And with that said, it just seems like a bad idea to me. The focus on needing full round attacks means you'll want to be in melee ALL the time. Light armor proficiency. d8 hit dice, and a bad fortitude save make that seem like a bad idea. I suppose shield and whatnot would help quite a bit, but still...
Studied combat totall ybenefits from it.. It's a flat +1/2 lv to hit and 1/2 lv to damage. Sure it may not be rolling tooons of d6, but at least you don't need flanking always-and you can easily apply it to ranged version (if you somehow get around the reload issue, and don't mind pumping that many feats into it). I'd argue that the loss of damage, is alright considering how much more to hit your getting. You basically end up near full bab, with weapon spec line. But I'm used to playing 3/4s so I've always preferred to hit over damage.
Like you said before though, your not the mai ndamage guy, so I think it's fine to not have much more than weapon damage dice until lv 4, and then later on agile weapons. Sure it is a bit costy but thats just TWF.
Yeah so it just ends up back at the issue of lower hp etc. but if your going TWF you've already accounted for it.
Not saying it's the best choice, but I was saying it isn't wrong choice, and more than workable. I've even got one semi built twf at range with a glove of storing (though in pfs that may have been faq'd out, my gm doesn't really see an issue with it)
but like I said earlier, I prefer a ranged investigator myself due to the hp etc.
I decided to go the melee support route. With unknown stats, it may change though.
I'm starting as a half elf with fauchard proficiency. I wanted to remain in reach because squishy and the blade of mercy trait saves me from taking the bludgeoner feat. Bruising Intellect for intimidate. I'm not confused spear dancer is a worth a feat though.
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