(Note - this conversation will contain spoilers for Night March of Kalkamedes. Don't read any farther if you don't want to spoil a neat scenario!)
I ran NMoK last week for my normal PFS group, and things went a little strange. I'm wondering if I should have been a bit harsher on them, but wanted to see what other PFS GMs thought.
For those of you not familiar, the climax of the scenario involves two creatures in summoning circles - one a gnome that is awake and talking, and the other a badly injured and unconscious female. The gnome is a powerful demon; the woman is a powerful CG celestial (a ghaele azata) that came to the site to banish the demon, but failed and ended up trapped and badly hurt in a nearby summoning circle. The demon has a zombie dragon he controls, but the zombie dragon can't enter either summoning circle.
So, the PCs in question are a LN human cleric of Asmodeus, a N tiefling fighter, and a LN aasimar slayer. There a few other PCs on the side of the cavern (a NG human bard/swashbuckler and a human gunslinger). All PCs are somewhere in the 1-3 level range.
The way the scenario is written, the demon tries to get the group to free him, and sends his zombie dragon to attack if it's clear that's not going to happen, or if the group tries to wake up the celestial. Seems reasonable enough. The PCs spent some time talking to him, and poked some holes in his story, so they don't trust him, and start investigating the celestial. This prompts the (hidden) dragon to leap out and attack.
Combat starts happening, and goes badly for the PCs quickly. The gunslinger goes down, and the fighter is badly hurt by the dragon. The group decides they need help, and the unconscious woman is going to be it. The cleric of Asmodeus breaks the circle around her and goes inside to wake her up... with a wand of Infernal Healing. On a Chaotic Good outsider. The aasimar slayer and tiefling fighter both start hiding in the circle, counting on the anti-undead protection to keep them alive.
So, when the celestial wakes up, there's a cleric of Asmodeus standing over her, and she's got an Infernal Healing spell active on her, which explicitly says it feels corrupting and evil. So, surrounded by what look like enemies, I did what seemed like the most reasonable thing for her to do - she dropped a Holy Word.
Looking it up, I see that, by RAW, a Holy Word should flat-out kill all three nearby PCs. They're more than ten levels lower than her, and none of them are good, and they all failed the save against the spell. However, I elected to say that she didn't kill them, instead using the other effects - they were all (as I recall) paralyzed and blinded for several minutes. The dragon was close enough to get the edge of the Holy Word as well, so that really turned the tide of the fight, since it was blinded. The non-incapacitated PCs finished it off and finished the module successfully, and I had the celestial fix the afflicted PCs with her magic.
So, should I have killed all three PCs? There are no tactics for the celestial; it seems to be assumed that she stays unconscious through the fight, but they woke her up in the middle of it, and looked like a clear and present threat from her perspective.
What do other PFS GMs out there think?
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No, killing all the PCs with an NPC 12 levels too high for them is something you should save for truly momentous acts of darwin award baiting, not a moment of desperation. If she can feel all nasty and evil she can probably also feel her kidneys going back into place. I would have had her feign unconciousness until she could figure out what was going on, or at least give them a diplomacy check for a quick "sorry! only healing i had.. evil dragon trying to kill us! Please tell me you're a high level adventurer or something!"
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I think you made a mistake, but you recovered from it in an acceptable fashion. You could of had the ghaele ready an action to defend herself against anyone who tried to hurt her, while asking who the PCs are and what are their intentions. If you want to get technical, ghaele have no ranks in Knowledge (Religion) so she could not have recognized a cleric of Asmodeus. Back up further and consider she's got SR 25 vs infernal healing affecting her. I think you over-reacted, but once you commit it is not easy to back down. The scenario speaks of her being too weak to help the PCs, save for a heroic effort to banish the demon if it has been freed. All you can do is reflect on what you would do different if the same situation happens again.
Richard, keep in mind she doesn't have any tactics. She's expected to stay unconscious until after the fight. I thought her reaction was appropriate for a powerful good outsider in a moment of panic - Holy Word is useful as an alignment test in addition to its ability to incapacitate your enemies, and I expect a cleric of Asmodeus would be considered an immediate threat to a CG outsider.
BNW, I can see your point - a Diplomacy check would have made a lot of sense to ask for. Good idea.
Doug, good point on the SR. I didn't notice that until afterwards - the wand should have just fizzled. That's very strange about the Knowledge (Religion) thing, but you're right as far as RAW (rather baffling thing to leave out, in my opinion).
Dave, he dropped a CLW on her as well while she was out.
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EDIT: @Doug Miles: the circle suppresses her spell resistance.
Thank you for correcting me Dave. I was looking at the ghaele stat block and not reading the scenario text. I stand corrected.
Steeldraco, if you GM long enough these situations can arise. You made a snap decision. You are not alone. I don't expect we'll have a group therapy session here, but I think every GM has decisions they look back on and cringe. Did the players have a good time, or was there mistrust created as a result? That is how I would reflect on the episode. Learn from it, and move onward.
Yeah, they all had a good time, though we were getting pretty rushed by the end (part of why I had to make a snap decision on what to do, although I felt a snap decision on the celestial's part made sense as well). We had spent too much time roleplaying and problem-solving earlier, particularly when they had to get Kalkamedes across a river, along with the cleric's mule, with no points in Handle Animal in the whole group.
Overall everybody had a good time, I know that. I've been GMing for ages now, so I know what you mean about looking back on calls you've made and regretting them when you've got more time.
Anyway, thanks all. I avoid being a killer GM (if the two are in conflict, I'd rather everybody had fun than follow the letter of the rules strictly). I was mostly feeling guilty about overreacting, and then having to dial back on the rules in order to avoid killing PCs.
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I'd say the holy symbols of the major deities should be common knowledge enough for anyone to try untrained, so there's a chance she'd recognize Asmodeus's symbol.
I agree that you overreacted, but at least you didn't kill them, and it sounds like the group had fun, so it's ok.
Venture-Captain, Netherlands
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It might have been a very powerfull spell to drop, but I think the reaction was justified from a flavor point of view. She was desperate for help when she reached out to Kalkamedes. But who knows what help the Demon managed to get?
And as you toned down the spell, but did let it affect the Dragon, it was a good lesson to the players. You never know what you face, so be carefull with your spells.
They had broken the circle already by the time they woke her up.
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I think you did fine. Treat it as a learning experience. The players had fun. Nobody died cause of the action. The action actually likely saved a TPK. No excessive amounts of consumables were used because of the action.
Feel blessed that a mistake turned out so well.
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What do other PFS GMs out there think?
I think you made an honest mistake in a situation that was outside scenario expectations, and while you did not follow the rules of the spell, you did follow the spirit of the Guide to Organized Play. I don't feel that a good-aligned outsider would lash out with such a powerful effect until the situation resolved further than six seconds, relying on damage reduction and natural armor to survive any further assault. This was a very good experience to have and consider in future situations (though I do not expect such circumstances to arise again any time soon!).
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I agree. My first statement meant agreed with this as well.
She was just raised from near death, so she is prone with a few HP at the feet of this guy that could be seen as evil.
Casting a spell is not usually the best option right there. If she bac ks up and heals while the PCs are being peacefull she may even hold off blasting them.
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Mistakes happen. I've made 'em, still make 'em and will probably still make 'em in the future. You did your best to correct it.
Everyone's going to give you a different answer. Including me.
For sub-tier 1-5, instead of going offensive with a CR13 creature, why not just have her retreat or escape?
Available escape abilities: greater invisibility (self only), greater teleport, globe of invulnerability, wall of force, obscuring mist.
The advantage these give you as a GM: you can retreat but still be within parlay range. This allows the party to explain themselves and fix the situation. While going offensive might make sense for her as a creature, going defensive makes sense as a GM as this is party's story, not hers.
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Does she have spellcraft to know what was cast on her and sense motive to know that the PCs aren't evil, just scared?
Also, she is chaotic good, so she'll know that sometimes you just have to do whatever it takes to defeat evil, and 1 minute of feeling gross is worth it if she can keep the demon banished.
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bolding mine.
IMHO (and all alignment stuff is just opinion really) the bolded line above has NOTHING to do with Chaotic vs. Lawful and everything to do with Good vs. Evil.
"End justifies means" tends to be evil... not chaotic.
For the most part I agree, but in this case I meant more to point out that recognizing that a particular level 1 spell was cast with the greatest of intentions is easily within the NPCs grasp.
That being said, "doing whatever it takes" is often that beautiful slippery slope that many famous characters have fallen down on the way to becoming bad guys themselves. R'as al Goul is a great example, as is Doc Ock. Alexander Marcus from "Star Trek: Into Darkness" is another one who probably fell down that slope.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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I think you made an excellent decision. Normally the combat against Illvaster is fairly easy, and if they made it that far and figured who to trust, I think they deserve to finish.
They were in dire straits, but made in essence a good gamble, betting on the ghaele.
I don't think you can normally choose to soften your Holy Word, but in this special case, the ghaele is mysteriously weakened. If she weren't, she could've just killed the glabrezu from outside his circle after getting rescued. Instead, someone else has to cast her Banishment. Something for which no rule explanation is given. But it does give YOU cover to pull punches on the Word.
And I think it's perfectly appropriate. Normally a Holy Word does a good job of clearing out minion critters, so it's a plausible tactic for a panicking ghaele. (Not necessarily the optimal one, but a plausible one.)
The part I really like is that on the one hand players were rewarded for picking the right outsider to rescue, but on the other hand they did feel the sting for their questionable choice of healing. Not so much that it does permanent damage, but enough to give them a good scare.