I checked the FAQ and read some threads where this came up but nobody did any math.
There are several items in the game that grant feats and I'm trying to figure out how the value of those magic items is determined so that I can create some of my own.
The Gloves of Arrow Snaring grant a third tier feet usable twice per day. The item cost is 4,000gp. This gives the third tier feet a value of 10,000gp. (4000 * 2.5 = 10,000)
The Dark Blue Rhomboid Ioun Stone grants continuous use of the Alertness feat. The item cost is 10,000gp. Figuring slotless and unlimited use, that gives this first tier feet a value of 250gp. (10,000/2) * (5/100)
Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone is the same, confirming the first tier feat value of 250gp.
Is anyone aware of any magic items that grant second tier feats so we can figure out a cost progression? Also, if there are any items that contradict the numbers from these, that would be interesting.
Feats are far, far too varied to put a general cost progression on.
The Paragon Surge debacle made that abundantly clear.
Which feat are you trying to emulate/grant?
Also the reason there's nothing on this is it's not really something you should do. Gold is far "cheaper" than a feat. Some of the feats aren't as valuable as others, and or they make sense as something to grant. But it's not really supported to add feats to items.
I'm specifically trying to do the Dimensional Agility feat chain.
I feel those are very strong feats to do what they do. I'd put it as very expensive.
Well very expensive is relative since I have about 1.7 billion gpv to work with.
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The ocher rhomboid ioun stone from PFS grants a free feat. It is, however, a cursed item (requires break enchantment to get rid of it) and shifts your alignment one step towards evil the first time you use it.
Cost is 30,000gp, as I recall. So 30,000gp plus the cost of an atonement means you're set.
How does an item like this work if you're neutral? You put the item on and then boom? You're considered dead and removed from play immediately?
How does an item like this work if you're neutral? You put the item on and then boom? You're considered dead and removed from play immediately?The ocher rhomboid ioun stone from PFS grants a free feat. It is, however, a cursed item (requires break enchantment to get rid of it) and shifts your alignment one step towards evil the first time you use it.
Cost is 30,000gp, as I recall. So 30,000gp plus the cost of an atonement means you're set.
You have until the end of the session to clear the condition. Otherwise, you're reported as "died", same as any other "dead" condition.
There are not alot of magical items in Pathfinder that allow feats, and most of these have variable costs because they are weapon enhancement, armor enchantments or meta magic items.
The ones I have found are as follows:
-Opalescent White Pyramid (Ioun Stone): Is 10,000 gp and grants A specific Martial Weapon Proficiency.
This would be 5000gp if it took up a slot.
-Dark Blue Rhomboid (Ioun Stone): Is 10,000gp and grants Alertness.
This would be 5000gp if it took up a slot.
-Scarlet and Green Cabochon (Ioun Stone): Is 10,000gp and grants the Endurance feat.
This would be 5000gp if it took up a slot.
-Gloves of Arrow Snaring: Grants the Snatch Arrow feat 2/day, and ignores snatch arrow's requirements (Dex 15, Deflect Arrows, Improved Unarmed Strike).
Should be 10,000 for 'at-will'
-Blessed Keepsake: Is 8000gp and grants the wearer the ability to detect a specific outside alignment and the Alignment Channel feat.
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I wouldn't make a feat price, I would make each item have a different cost, ones with no/minimal requirements would start at 5,000gp.
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For something like the Dimensional Agility feat chain (Dimensional Agility, Dimensional Assault, Dimensional Dervish, Dimensional Maneuvers, Dimensional Savant) I would put around 120,000gp. (Which is what a continuous blink magical item would cost).
This is about working with the rules and not trying to invent values.
Charges per day Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)
If item is continuous or unlimited, not charged, determine cost as if it had 100 charges.
No space limitation Multiply entire cost by 2
This says to me that if an item grants a continuous effect then you would divide the base value of the effect by .05. If it has no space limitation (ioun stone) then you multiply by two.
So to figure out the base value of the effect that a Dark Blue Rhomboid gives, you would reverse the math and divide by two and multiply by .05. Since the only properties of this magic item are "Alertness Feat", "Continuous Effect" and "Slotless; (10,000/2)(5/100)=250gp. This means that a tier 1 feat with no prerequisites has a value of 250gp.
It's the same situation with the other ioun stones that have been mentioned.
The Gloves of Arrow Snaring have two properties; "Snatch Arrows Feat" and "Use 2/day". (4,000)(5/2)=10,000. This means that a third tier (two feat prereqs) feat has a value of 10,000gp. This means if you wanted gloves that grant continuous Snatch Arrows, it should actually cost 10,000/.05 = 200,000gp.
Not assigning feats a price makes it impossible to be consistent with item creation in this area. The GM and players should be able to recreate the mechanics of any item the characters can purchase.
I don't have the stats for Blessed Keepsake. Does the detect alignment ability work like Detect Evil? Does it have a limited number of uses or is it continuous? Does it take a slot?
The ocher rhomboid ioun stone from PFS grants a free feat. It is, however, a cursed item (requires break enchantment to get rid of it) and shifts your alignment one step towards evil the first time you use it.
Cost is 30,000gp, as I recall. So 30,000gp plus the cost of an atonement means you're set.
Any idea what feat it grants? Is it just any feat? Does the character have to have the prerequisites already? Is it continuous or limited uses?
DrDew the thing is you're quoting rules that handle to cost of spell effects. Now you're free to use those as a base, just realize they weren't designed to handle or modify feats.
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There are not alot of magical items in Pathfinder that allow feats, and most of these have variable costs because they are weapon enhancement, armor enchantments or meta magic items.
The ones I have found are as follows:
-Opalescent White Pyramid (Ioun Stone): Is 10,000 gp and grants A specific Martial Weapon Proficiency.
This would be 5000gp if it took up a slot.
-Dark Blue Rhomboid (Ioun Stone): Is 10,000gp and grants Alertness.
This would be 5000gp if it took up a slot.
-Scarlet and Green Cabochon (Ioun Stone): Is 10,000gp and grants the Endurance feat.
This would be 5000gp if it took up a slot.
-Gloves of Arrow Snaring: Grants the Snatch Arrow feat 2/day, and ignores snatch arrow's requirements (Dex 15, Deflect Arrows, Improved Unarmed Strike).
Should be 10,000 for 'at-will'
-Blessed Keepsake: Is 8000gp and grants the wearer the ability to detect a specific outside alignment and the Alignment Channel feat.
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I wouldn't make a feat price, I would make each item have a different cost, ones with no/minimal requirements would start at 5,000gp.
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For something like the Dimensional Agility feat chain (Dimensional Agility, Dimensional Assault, Dimensional Dervish, Dimensional Maneuvers, Dimensional Savant) I would put around 120,000gp. (Which is what a continuous blink magical item would cost).This is about working with the rules and not trying to invent values.
Charges per day Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)If item is continuous or unlimited, not charged, determine cost as if it had 100 charges.No space limitation Multiply entire cost by 2This says to me that if an item grants a continuous effect then you would divide the base value of the effect by .05. If it has no space limitation (ioun stone) then you multiply by two.
So to figure out the base value of the effect that a Dark Blue Rhomboid gives, you would reverse the math and divide by two and multiply by .05. Since the only properties of this magic item are "Alertness Feat", "Continuous Effect" and "Slotless; (10,000/2)(5/100)=250gp. This means that a tier 1 feat with no prerequisites has a value of 250gp.
It's the same situation with the other ioun stones that have been mentioned.
The Gloves of Arrow Snaring have two properties; "Snatch Arrows Feat" and "Use 2/day". (4,000)(5/2)=10,000. This means that a third tier (two feat prereqs) feat has a value of 10,000gp. This means if you wanted gloves that grant continuous Snatch Arrows, it should actually cost 10,000/.05 = 200,000gp.
You have missed the 4 before "If item is continuous or unlimited, not charged, determine cost as if it had 100 charges. If it has some daily limit, determine as if it had 50 charges." and the hyphenated 4 after "Spell has material component cost Add directly into price of item per charge"
The whole piece is:
Spell has material component cost -> Add directly into price of item per charge 4 -> 4 If item is continuous or unlimited, not charged, determine cost as if it had 100 charges
It is about adding the cost of the costly components to the production cost, not about the base price.
In case others had a problem finding it.
So its an evil cursed item that's base price is 30,000gp. Which means it probably costs more if its not cursed.IOUN STONE, OCHER RHOMBOID
Aura strong universal [evil]; CL 12th
Slot none; Weight-; Price 30,000 gp
DESCRIPTION
This orange-colored, translucent, faceted item is an ioun stone and has the same properties. While it orbits its owner's head, that owner gains a bonus feat. This can be any feat she meets the prerequisites for.
The ocher rhomboid ioun stone radiates an evil aura at all times, and anyone who wears it (that is, causes it to orbit her head) is considered to have committed an evil act. The alignment of the one wearing the stone shifts one step toward evil. Players who wear the stone should be given the opportunity to atone for this action before the scenario's conclusion if such an alignment shift would result in their removal from the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign.
This ioun stone is cursed, and can't be removed by its owner or anyone else except by the methods outlined on page 536 of the Core Rulebook.
As with other ioun stones, the ocher rhomboid has a resonant power when placed inside a way.finder. First, it turns the way.finder into a cursed item that can only be removed in the way the stone itself can. Second, the wearer gains Knowledge (arcana) as a class skill for as long as she wears the wayfinder.
CONSTRUCTION
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, caster must be 12th level; Cost 15,000 gp
What's a wayfinder?
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Working within the rules, you'd be right up against the wall. For magic items that don't have a similar one to compare pricing to, your next step is to use the estimating magic item chart.
Since the chart doesn't cover the myriad things that feats can do, you're down to asking the dm to price. Of course, once you started working on custom items, you were in dm-pricing-adjustment territory anyhow.
The ocher rhomboid is handy, if you don't mind the ramifications. There are three important parts to note about it though. First, you must already meet the prerequisites for the feat. Second, it IS cursed. Third, depending on how you interpret "This can be any feat she meets the prerequisites for.", you may or may not get to choose the feat. It may be randomly determined.
A wayfinder is a magic item that acts as a light source and a nonmagical compass. A wayfinder can hold one ioun stone. That ioun stone has a %chance of resonating with wayfinders.
Honestly, the best thing to do is to check with your dm and make sure it's alright with him for you to craft wondrous items that grant feats, because if he has a problem with it he could choose to price the items(since all custom items are at dm discretion for price) high enough to make them impossible to obtain.
Now, assuming the dm has already approved these items and is just looking for a fair'ish price, I think the easiest way to go about it would be to reprice it first as a non-cursed item, and then to price a greater version of it, that ignores prerequisites.
I'm assuming you want these slotless, too.
So some breakdown here. The ocher stone has a 50% chance of forcing a character's removal from pathfinder society. So for non-pfs, we should factor in the risk change to the valuation. Anyone who makes this will be sure to have appropriate precautions in place to remove the curse.
So a standard curse on ioun stones *mindborer* seems to reduce the cost by 50% of the normal item. For now, let's go with that.
A non-cursed version might cost 60,000g. Still, that seems awfully low.
Given that the effects of the curse, once the pfs module is over, aren't reversible, and because the module chose not to present a non-cursed version of the item, I suggest we double the price again.
120k for any feat you meet the prerequisites for. Expensive, but it feels like it's in line for the potential power it offers.
But when we come to removing prerequisites, we come to a greater problem. There are some feats out there that are just silly strong. So I'll just make everything up as I go.
Perhaps in this case, we'll do better by using the metamagic rod style and choosing lesser, normal, and greater versions.
A lesser version might ignore one prerequisite, and only function for feats that are second in a feat chain, or that a character of 8th level or lower could qualify for.
A normal version might ignore two prerequisites, and function for feats that are up to third in a feat chain, or that a character of 15th level or lower could qualify for.
A greater version would ignore all prerequisites, and grant any available feat.
Now, if we lock these ones down to a specific feat, instead of any feat at all, we can reduce the price of the stone we've already priced.
Let's try taking off that 50% increase. So we'll start with a 60k base. Now, how valuable is it to remove one prerequisite, and to be limited to the second tier? Also level 8, for things like bab requirements and such. I'm feeling 15k or so for this one.
So a lesser version would cost 75k. That doesn't seem too bad.
A regular version? Well, let's quadruple the price. Considering the amount of flexibility written into these things, that doesn't seem unreasonable. So 300k for a regular version.
We can already see a greater version is going to be out of reach for 20th level characters with normal wealth per level. That's ok though.
If we quadrauple it a third time, we're looking at 1.2 million for any feat ever, even those requiring bab +16.
That's a fairly expensive item for most people. With 1.2 billion to spend though, that's still pretty much every feat ever made. Though you'd be peering through a literal cloud out ioun stones. Considering we're talking about rods here, I think it'd be reasonable to limit the ioun stones to three of each feat-granting type.
Would I allow these items? Nah, no way, not in a normal game. Maybe an epic one, that was already over the top cheesy. But I wouldn't give a player that much gold unless they were well into epic levels anyhow.
So anyhow, there are some pricing ideas, for what they're worth :p
There are not alot of magical items in Pathfinder that allow feats, and most of these have variable costs because they are weapon enhancement, armor enchantments or meta magic items.
The ones I have found are as follows:
-Opalescent White Pyramid (Ioun Stone): Is 10,000 gp and grants A specific Martial Weapon Proficiency.
This would be 5000gp if it took up a slot.
-Dark Blue Rhomboid (Ioun Stone): Is 10,000gp and grants Alertness.
This would be 5000gp if it took up a slot.
-Scarlet and Green Cabochon (Ioun Stone): Is 10,000gp and grants the Endurance feat.
This would be 5000gp if it took up a slot.
-Gloves of Arrow Snaring: Grants the Snatch Arrow feat 2/day, and ignores snatch arrow's requirements (Dex 15, Deflect Arrows, Improved Unarmed Strike).
Should be 10,000 for 'at-will'
-Blessed Keepsake: Is 8000gp and grants the wearer the ability to detect a specific outside alignment and the Alignment Channel feat.
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I wouldn't make a feat price, I would make each item have a different cost, ones with no/minimal requirements would start at 5,000gp.
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For something like the Dimensional Agility feat chain (Dimensional Agility, Dimensional Assault, Dimensional Dervish, Dimensional Maneuvers, Dimensional Savant) I would put around 120,000gp. (Which is what a continuous blink magical item would cost).This is about working with the rules and not trying to invent values.
Charges per day Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)If item is continuous or unlimited, not charged, determine cost as if it had 100 charges.No space limitation Multiply entire cost by 2This says to me that if an item grants a continuous effect then you would divide the base value of the effect by .05. If it has no space limitation (ioun stone) then you multiply by two.
So to figure out the base value of the effect that a Dark Blue Rhomboid gives, you would reverse the math and divide by two and multiply by .05. Since...
Math fail. Okay I'm not looking any of this up so I'm just assuming your quotes are correct.
It says divide by (5 divided by charges per day) not multiply by (5 divided by charges per day)
Didn't you think something was a little weird when you got such a low number? didn't that prompt you to look at your math again? You need to divide twice, and that puts the 100 back in the numerator so instead of multiplying by (5/100) you are multiplying by 1/(5/100) or just multiplying by 100/5 or multiply by 20.
So the actual equation would look like this: 10,000/2*20 = 100,000
I seem to remember an old 3.0/3.5 equation (Don't ask what book it's from, I don't remember) that as a general guideline an item granting a feat should be relatively slot appropriate and be a flat 10k plus 5k for every prereq the feat has.
I very very vaguely remember something like that, too. I think it was the 3.0 Arms and Equipment Guide. But that's just a baseline. If an item granted Expanded Arcana, it would cost anywhere from 1k to 81k. For pointless feat-tax garbage like Combat Expertise, 10k sounds about right.
