Cleric Separatist Archetype


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Is there any reason why I can't gain a druid domain like Frog for my forbidden rites? It doesn't go against the deity's alignment at all, which is the only stated restriction. Plus it is just a more specialized animal domain like fur. You just get a familiar instead of an animal companion.

Sczarni

It's come up before in this forum. If you do a quick search, you'll see that people disagree on an answer.

I agree with you, in that I believe the only restriction is that of alignment, but other GMs with more stars than myself believe that the requirement of "nature-themed" must still be met, despite that phrase not actually having any definition anywhere.

It was enough of a disagreement that I never made a Separatist Cleric with the Eagle Domain (because I wanted a Hawk Familiar). If you decide to make such a character, keep in mind you'll encounter tables where you won't be able to play it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Norwasian wrote:
Is there any reason why I can't gain a druid domain like Frog for my forbidden rites? It doesn't go against the deity's alignment at all, which is the only stated restriction. Plus it is just a more specialized animal domain like fur. You just get a familiar instead of an animal companion.

The Separatist archetype only allows you to pick and choose from cleric domains. There is nothing in the text that says you can choose a domain that a cleric could not normally take.

The Frog domain is not a cleric domain.

Sczarni

Hmm. This shouldn't have been moved to the Advice Forum.

The OP was asking about how Separatist Clerics are handled in PFS.

I'll flag it to be moved back, but I don't know if that's possible.

Silver Crusade

It should be in the Rules subforum. This isn't PFS specific.

Sczarni

Ooo! Wait a minute. In my search for threads past, I found that this one was labeled "answered in errata". So I headed over to the product page for Ultimate Magic...

Nevermind. It's not actually listed in the errata document.

Anywhom, as far as listing past discussions goes, I also found this one.

Just more evidence that this is subject to table variation. I'd recommend avoiding this character idea for that reason.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Ultimate Magic wrote:
Forbidden Rites: A separatist selects one domain from her deity's domain list, and a second domain that is not on her deity's domain list. This second domain cannot be an alignment domain that doesn't match the cleric's or her deity's alignment.

If you read that, the only restriction for the second domain is for alignment domains. The whole idea for the separatist is that they have weird beliefs that don't match up with the main beliefs of the deity. For example, a separatist cleric of Abadar could have the Destruction domain and believe that cites should be destroyed and rebuilt on a continual basis to support a belief of architectural evolution.

Also notice, that there is no restriction that says "cleric domain". Just that the domain is not on the deity's domain list. But your problem lies with:

Ultimate Magic, Druid section under Spellcasters chapter wrote:
Other nature-themed classes with access to domains may select an animal or terrain domain in place of a regular domain.

While nature-themed class is never defined, druid and ranger definitely fit. Hunter and shaman are most likely included. Some archetypes make a class nature themed or a make a nature themed class not anymore. I personally would go so far to include any cleric that worships a nature themed deity, one with animal, plant or a portfolio that has a nature theme (e.g. Cernunnos, Fandara, Gozreh, Valani). But then again, that is a personal preference.

You could always worship Gogunta! Be hard to argue that frog is not an appropriate domain for that one...


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

But since the Separatist archetype is a Cleric archetype, shouldn't all references to domains be assumed to refer to domains available to clerics in the absence of a direct statement to the contrary?

Silver Crusade

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I think Nefreet has been proven correct :-).

Expect table variation


Would Ketephys (who gets Animal domain) be allowed to provide Eagle, which gives a Hawk familiar and bonuses to perception (hunting) and ranged attacks. This seems *AWFULLY* appropriate for a deity whose favored weapon is a bow, whose sacred animal is a Hawk, and whose sphere of influence is "hunting". :P

Sczarni

It'd be no more appropriate than Erastil, or Gozreh, or any other of the myriad Gods that are related in some way to a particular animal.

"Nature themed" is simply too vague, and there are too many possible ambiguous connections that would need to be defined.

It's just simpler to say that this isn't an option in PFS.

(which isn't the answer I'd like to give, but it is what it is)

Grand Lodge

This question's been bouncing around for a long time in several permutations, and Paizo has remained silent on this issue, despite it being something that comes up often due to several classes getting domains, and potentially being "nature themed".

It's getting a little annoying to be honest.


Thomas LeBlanc wrote:
Ultimate Magic wrote:
Forbidden Rites: A separatist selects one domain from her deity's domain list, and a second domain that is not on her deity's domain list. This second domain cannot be an alignment domain that doesn't match the cleric's or her deity's alignment.

If you read that, the only restriction for the second domain is for alignment domains. The whole idea for the separatist is that they have weird beliefs that don't match up with the main beliefs of the deity. For example, a separatist cleric of Abadar could have the Destruction domain and believe that cites should be destroyed and rebuilt on a continual basis to support a belief of architectural evolution.

Also notice, that there is no restriction that says "cleric domain". Just that the domain is not on the deity's domain list. But your problem lies with:

Ultimate Magic, Druid section under Spellcasters chapter wrote:
Other nature-themed classes with access to domains may select an animal or terrain domain in place of a regular domain.

While nature-themed class is never defined, druid and ranger definitely fit. Hunter and shaman are most likely included. Some archetypes make a class nature themed or a make a nature themed class not anymore. I personally would go so far to include any cleric that worships a nature themed deity, one with animal, plant or a portfolio that has a nature theme (e.g. Cernunnos, Fandara, Gozreh, Valani). But then again, that is a personal preference.

You could always worship Gogunta! Be hard to argue that frog is not an appropriate domain for that one...

So are you able to choose any neutral deity(chaotic neutral, lawful neutral) Or must they be true neutral?

Liberty's Edge

David knott 242 wrote:
But since the Separatist archetype is a Cleric archetype, shouldn't all references to domains be assumed to refer to domains available to clerics in the absence of a direct statement to the contrary?

And if you can define your cleric as "a nature-themed class" then your cleric has access to that domain. Right?

Liberty's Edge

gg405 wrote:

Would Ketephys (who gets Animal domain) be allowed to provide Eagle, which gives a Hawk familiar and bonuses to perception (hunting) and ranged attacks. This seems *AWFULLY* appropriate for a deity whose favored weapon is a bow, whose sacred animal is a Hawk, and whose sphere of influence is "hunting". :P

I would say yes. But not every GM would. Until we get some sort of Designer/Developer clarification or a ruling from the PFS management team, expect table variation.


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Table variation on a bonus is one thing. Table variation on your entire character.... avoid.


Quote:
Other nature-themed classes with access to domains may select an animal or terrain domain in place of a regular domain.

Ok. So this clearly shows a non-Separatist path to selecting the domain. Be a nature-themed class. Clerics may or may not be, that's irrelevant to a Separatist, because their class feature says...

Quote:
A separatist selects one domain from her deity's domain list, and a second domain that is not on her deity's domain list. This second domain cannot be an alignment domain that doesn't match the cleric's or her deity's alignment.

There we go! No restrictions whatsoever on which domain to pick, other than the alignment one.

Frog, Wolf, Caves... any domain you like is fair game for a Separatist.

Case closed.

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