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Okay, so with the ACG out, we have quite a few new toys to play around with, should we want to build the dirtiest trickster, a man so dirty even the neo-otyugh goes "ewwwww I'm not biting that!".
But first, the classics are Sneaky Maneuvers and Skulking Slayer.
The new sweet things are Bounty Hunter, but the real MVP is Surprise Maneuver, which adds a bonus equal to the number of your SA dice when you do a maneuver (provided you satisfy the SA criteria).
Taking that and combining Skulking Slayer/Bounty hunter gets your SA dice added to your stuff multiple times, resulting in probably the best/fastest scaling bonus to combat maneuvers.
Further small tidbit is Snakebite Striker, an archetype which has full BAB and foolishly give SA on the first level along with some other goodies (IUS is always good and brawler's cunning lets you dump INT and still take combat expertise/Improved/greater feint), making it an all around great option.
Okay, so I need advice on how to build a character around this, up to until 12-ish. I think Snakebite Striker Brawler 1/Scout+Skulking Slayer Rogue 4 is a good base for starters (and it's when you'd get the Surprise Maneuver feat).
I'd definitely start with the Snakebite Striker dip, and take Quick Dirty Trick ASAP. Starting out, you will probably want Iron Will or Toughness at 3rd level, going human to get Combat Expertise and Improved Dirty Trick. Normally, I'd advise against rogue, but if Skulking Slayer's bonus stacks with Surprise Maneuvers, this might get even higher than the Lore Warden, on top of getting the massive sneak attack damage. Bred for War trait is a no-brainer, because its a free +2 to what you should be doing. Pick up Dirty Trick Master later on.
Snakebite Striker 2/Skulking Slayer 9 gets you +16 to dirty tricks, +16 to steal, provided you would be able to flank. Including Imp/Gr Dirty Trick and Surprise Maneuver.
Also lets you take a 10 int instead of 13, freeing up stat points.
+8 BAB, +5/6 Attack Stat, + 16 feats, +2 Dusty Rose Ioun Stone in a Wayfinder, +2 Burglar's Buckler (+1 Buckler with other features). +33/34 not counting other buffs.
If you can manage to use a weapon based dirty trick, the PFSFG Dueling enchantment gives a 3:1 return on weapon enhancement bonuses. (8k for +3, 18k +6, 32k +9)
Makes you on par with a Lore Warden 3 dip, (2 levels of sneak dice for the static +2)
Actually, wouldn't that give you 1 more BAB as well? Rogue loses a BAB at 9.
Wow, this is an interesting build.
Personally, I'm hoping that there will be some sort of an archetype for the Slayer in the upcoming release in december that is similar to the Skulking Slayer.
Bounty hunter is basically that. They may fix it up a bit though (they get their first ability before they can even use it, without multiclassing at least).
I am not sure you can give up the sneak attack for bonuses multiple times. As I read it you'd only get the highest bonus of all those abilities.
Each of the abilities basically states: You exchange the sneak attack for a maneuver. Some add a bonus. But if you already exchanged your sneak attack for the first ability you do not have them to exchange then for the other abilities as well. Just different ways to get a similar result.
mixing bounty hunter slayer and lore warden gives you a similar build because the increased BAB and number of feat help you, also you don't need to be a half orc.
As someone said you can't stack sneaky maneuver and other sneak attack replacing stuff.
Master of maneuver monk+bounty hunter slayer can be interesting too, use the bonus maneuver to blind them with dirty trick and then every other attack gets a free dirty trick. Doing damage, blinding and sickening someone in a turn seems fun.
Also, full bAb or close is usefull because you then get dirty trick master faster (and it's a really cool bonus)
slayer 3/lore warden 7/brawler snakebite 1
+2 from sneak, +4 from lore warden, +1 from weapon training, +1 from studied target, +11 BAB, + 2 dusty rose in a wayfinder, +4 feat, +5 from main stat, + from the buckler. So that's a +32, and you can probably get weapon focus and greater weapon focus if you use a weapon for +3.
The doubling comes from Sneaking Maneuver; you don't replace it twice, you add it once and replace it once.
Sneaky Maneuver wrote:
Benefit: Anytime a rogue with this talent could hit an opponent with a melee sneak attack on her turn, she may take a –2 penalty on her attack roll and attempt a dirty trick, disarm, steal, sunder, or trip combat maneuver instead of dealing sneak attack damage. If the attack succeeds, the rogue deals weapon damage as normal and then attempts a combat maneuver check as a swift action (the –2 penalty only applies to the initial attack roll, not the combat maneuver check). This combat maneuver still provokes attacks of opportunity unless the rogue has a feat or ability that allows her to perform it without provoking attacks of opportunity.
sulking slayer wrote:
At 1st level, when she could normally make a sneak attack, a slayer may instead make a dirty trick or steal combat maneuver with a bonus on her roll. This bonus is equal to her number of sneak attack dice for a dirty trick combat maneuver, or 1-1/2 × her number of sneak attack dice for a steal combat maneuver.
Both replace the sneak attack. And so do the options from the ACG as far as I've seen.
Sorry, My bad, I meant surprise maneuver from the ACG!
Surprise Maneuvers should definitely work with the things replacing SA damage with a free maneuver check.
"If you have sneak attack, when you attempt
a combat maneuver check against a creature that you
are f lanking or that is denied its Dexterity bonus to
AC against your attack, you gain a bonus on the combat
maneuver check that’s equal to your number of sneak
attack dice."
It doesn't care if you are making a SA or not, just that you are making a CM and are flanking the target.
Also, am I the only one bothered by the Bounty Hunter archetype getting an unusable ability at level 2? I assume you need to have the SA class feature to use it, which you don't get until 3. Unless it does work without SA and just requires you to meet the same prerequisites as SA in combat to use it.
no, it doesn't work at lvl 2 as it is written. Probably another editing problem from paizo. Since some archetype refer to abilities that don't even exist, getting a useless one for a lvl seem like a mild error in comparison.
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