Highest dmg archer build there is


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Dark Archive

I haven't met a DM yet that would allow a player to taken the Quicken SLA feat. If we are going to ASSume a character level of 12 for this discussion, I'd suggest that we go with only PFS-legal material.

Having said that, the OP wasn't looking for DPR Olympics, IMO. He seemed to want a playable character for a campaign, and that being an archer that does great damage. How we got from that question to the Archer DPR Olympics is a question that nobody ever asks on these boards.


Argus The Slayer wrote:

I haven't met a DM yet that would allow a player to taken the Quicken SLA feat. If we are going to ASSume a character level of 12 for this discussion, I'd suggest that we go with only PFS-legal material.

Having said that, the OP wasn't looking for DPR Olympics, IMO. He seemed to want a playable character for a campaign, and that being an archer that does great damage. How we got from that question to the Archer DPR Olympics is a question that nobody ever asks on these boards.

Why would you suggest PFS-legal material? I bought a bunch of PFRPG books. Seems I am the content I have paid for to give advice in a PFRPG forum. PFS advice can go to the PFS forum (paizo has one!) or can be given if a poster asks for PFS specifically.

Ergo, I suggest we stick to the rules, not a separate set of rules derived from Pathfinder RPG.

The Quicken Spell-like ability is available, RAW. Hence, builds can be made. I think the build was cheesy, but it's a legal and smart build. Ergo, good build. The topic is "Highest Archer DMG Build there is." That is what we are trying to give.

We are aware that DPR in a game environment will be (much) lower. I do not advertise playing a build which can push 275 dpr at level 12, sounds like the least fun I could have. Yet, we are discussing relative strengths of classes, and this is the benchmark.

Take any build here, and sub in the survival and fluff-feats you want for play, but it makes theoretical comparison REALLY hard.

So, to conclude, I think my next build will be a PFS-illegal synthesist archer!

Silver Crusade

Quicken SLA is a monster feat, and as such would require GM approval for a PC to take. That's as good a reason as any to exclude it from any sane discussion of max DPR builds.

(not that i'm saying this is a sane discussion or anything)

Edit: I didn't even see Quicken SLA in your build. Why is this even being discussed?

Grand Lodge

Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Quicken SLA is a monster feat, and as such would require GM approval for a PC to take. That's as good a reason as any to exclude it from any sane discussion of max DPR builds.

(not that i'm saying this is a sane discussion or anything)

Actually, there is no ban, or mention of any ban on Bestiary feats, but only a line that many of the feats are ones that the PCs will never qualify for, but they are free to take ones they do qualify for, and even give the example of Craft Construct.

So, it's a houserule, to disallow them.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:

Quicken SLA is a monster feat, and as such would require GM approval for a PC to take. That's as good a reason as any to exclude it from any sane discussion of max DPR builds.

(not that i'm saying this is a sane discussion or anything)

Edit: I didn't even see Quicken SLA in your build. Why is this even being discussed?

You can only use buffs of 10min/level or swift actions by the rules set for the dpr-comparison.

Touch of rage is a Standrad action, so in order to be included in the DPR it needs to be quickened.

Also, what BBT said. Monster Feats can be taken as long as you qualify for them.

Dark Archive

Here's my contribution. No special feat requests for your GM, and no shenanigans or cheese - just a straight up Halfling Archer Fighter.

12th level Halfling Weapon Master Fighter
Starting:
S:15 D:20 C:12 I:7 W:8 C:9

W/ 2 bumps to DEX and 1 to STR, along with +4 Belt of DEX and +2 STR Ioun Stone:
S:18 D:26 C:12 I:7 W:8 C:9

Feats:
1) Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2) Rapid Shot
3) Weapon Focus; +1/+1 (WT)
4) Weapon Specialization; [DEX=21]
5) Deadly Aim
6) Manyshot
7) Combat Reflexes; Weapon Training: +2/+2
8) Snap Shot; [+1DEX=22]
9) Improved Snap Shot
10) Greater Weapon Focus
11) Improved Precise Shot
12) Greater Weapon Specialization [+1STR = 16

Gear:
32,000 gp +4 bow
15,000 Gloves of Dueling
12,000 boots of speed
16,000 +6 belt of DEX
8,000 Pale Blue Rhomboid Ioun stone (+2 STR)
25,000 Greater Bracers of Archery (+2/+1)
___
108K

Attack: +12 BAB+8DEX+4bow+2GWF+5WT+2Bracers+1Haste+1Size-2RapidShot-4DeadlyAim = 29/29/29/24/19 w/ Manyshot. Haste and Rapid Shot

Damage 1d6+8DA+4GWS+5WT+4Bow+4STR+1Bracers = 1d8+26

Silver Crusade

Um, a +6 Dex belt costs 36,000, but it looks like you just typoed that rather than doing bad math.


Since we have decided that this is just about stupid DPR cheese, I have adjusted Johnny Bowman. Knowing the the target AC to build against makes it possible to adjust his weapon for higher damage.

Changes, +4 adaptive longbow --> +1 flaming, shocking, icy, adaptive longbow.

warrior of old --> killer

improved precise shot --> improved critical
__________________________________________________

Fighter - Mutation Master. Lvl 12.

DPR CALC:

The damage formula is h(d+s)+tchd.

h = Chance to hit, expressed as a percentage
d = Damage per hit. Average damage is assumed.
s = Precision damage per hit (or other damage that isn't multiplied on a crit). Average damage is again assumed.
t = Chance to roll a critical threat, expressed as a percentage.
c = Critical hit bonus damage. x2 = 1, x3 = 2, x4 = 3.

h vs AC 24 is .95 on all attacks but 3rd. 3rd is .75
d is 52
s is 0
t is .1
c is 3

Attack Total is 65.08 and 51.38

Manyshot does not multiply on critical so round average for it is 49.4


Johnny Bowman DPR - 361.08

STAT BLOCK:

The stat block has the adjustments for the Greater Mutagen, Touch of Rage, and Boots of Speed figured in directly. As well as rapid shot, point-blank shot and deadly aim.

Mutagen lasts 10 min/lvl so it is allowed as an "always on" buff in DPR.
Boots of Speed are free action to activate.
Johnny Bowman took Quicken SLA (touch of rage) so he can activate is 3/day as a swift action.
Optimistic Gambler extends touch of rage by d4 rounds each time it is used.

Johnny Bowman
Half-Elf Fighter (Mutation Warrior) 12
CG Medium humanoid (elf, human, orc)
Init +9; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +13
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 30, touch 18, flat-footed 22 (+8 armor, +7 Dex, +4 natural, +1 dodge)
hp 112 (12d10+36)
Fort +13, Ref +15, Will +6 (+3 vs. fear); +4 vs. effects that cause you to lose your grip on weapons, +2 vs. enchantments
Defensive Abilities bravery +3; Immune sleep
Weakness light sensitivity
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 60 ft.
Ranged +1 adaptive shocking flaming icy darkwood composite longbow +29/+29/+29/+24/+19 (1d8+1d6(fire)+1d6(cold)+1d6(electricity)+37/×3)
Special Attacks weapon trainings (bows +4, heavy blades +3)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th; concentration +14)
3/day—quickened touch of rage
2/day—touch of rage
--------------------...


Argus The Slayer wrote:
I haven't met a DM yet that would allow a player to taken the Quicken SLA feat.

You should play with more people.


Argus The Slayer wrote:

Here's my contribution.

29/29/29/24/19 w/ Manyshot. Haste and Rapid Shot

Damage 1d6+8DA+4GWS+5WT+4Bow+4STR+1Bracers = 1d6+26

bold is my change.

DPR is 184.43


BigDTBone wrote:

Since we have decided that this is just about stupid DPR cheese, I have adjusted Johnny Bowman. Knowing the the target AC to build against makes it possible to adjust his weapon for higher damage.

Changes, +4 adaptive longbow --> +1 flaming, shocking, icy, adaptive longbow.

warrior of old --> killer

improved precise shot --> improved critical
__________________________________________________

Fighter - Mutation Master. Lvl 12.
** spoiler omitted **
Johnny Bowman DPR - 361.08

** spoiler omitted **...

Nicely done. I am unsure that this could be beaten bu an inquisitor short of a level dip in paladin. Yes, I'd lose +7 damage per arrow, but I'd get double damage for 5 rounds/day.

Silver Crusade

How would dipping paladin give you double damage for 5 rounds per day?

Dark Archive

BigDTBone wrote:
Argus The Slayer wrote:

Here's my contribution.

29/29/29/24/19 w/ Manyshot. Haste and Rapid Shot

Damage 1d6+8DA+4GWS+5WT+4Bow+4STR+1Bracers = 1d6+26

bold is my change.

DPR is 184.43

I think the key is that I play with smart DMs who don't want their players to break the game for the whole table. Just because your DM will allow something, doesn't mean that he SHOULD allow it.

Nice job on the rest of your build, though: I like it.


Argus The Slayer wrote:
BigDTBone wrote:
Argus The Slayer wrote:

Here's my contribution.

29/29/29/24/19 w/ Manyshot. Haste and Rapid Shot

Damage 1d6+8DA+4GWS+5WT+4Bow+4STR+1Bracers = 1d6+26

bold is my change.

DPR is 184.43

I think the key is that I play with smart DMs who don't want their players to break the game for the whole table. Just because your DM will allow something, doesn't mean that he SHOULD allow it.

Nice job on the rest of your build, though: I like it.

::shrug:: I DM. My players have a sweet spot around 6 on the optimization scale. That's where they like to be so that's the level where I challenge them. I allow all Paizo, 3.5, and most 3rd party feats.

DPR challenges are more like thought experiments. How far can I push the system?

Dark Archive

The fighter builds, as others have noted, are not affected by adding additional combats per day, or fluctuations in AC. Due to the crazy stacking fighter attack bonuses, the fighter builds do almost the same DPR against an AC of 30 as they do against a 26. Scaling AC to higher numbers will slide the advantage to the fighter, while sliding lowering the target AC will favor the other options (Inquisitor, Zen Archer, etc).


It's all depending on how much you are willing to cheese.

Johnny Bowman, for example, had basically 300 DPR vs AC 24, which is AVG for a CR 10 encounter. I first built him to deal with AC 27 because that is AVG for a CR 12 encounter an Johnny is lvl 12. You are correct that the DPR were very similar.

However, when I changed his weapon from +4, to +1 flaming, shock, icy (something you would never do in game) it jumped his DPR drastically because the "to hit" percentage stayed the same but the damage went up by 7.5 per attack, which increased his overall DPR by ~66.

So low AC or high AC doesn't really favor because the fighter can usually find ways to give up "to hit" for more damage, particularly at the character building level. Similarly, I found myself dumping DEX to buy more STR until I remembered that manyshot has a DEX requirement of 17.


Bigdaddyjug wrote:
How would dipping paladin give you double damage for 5 rounds per day?

You get a 'good aura' class feature. Which, against evil enemies, allows the use of Litany of Righteousness, 4 times a day + once for the bonus pell from wisdom.

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