OK, Bestiary 4 devs, fess up :)


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James Jacobs wrote:
Auxmaulous wrote:

I'll give you True Detective - most of the other stuff (and trust me...I have most of the other "stuff") just isn't that good. Some newer film festival shorts and indie flicks have the heart - while the technical talent and production values are lacking.

And TBH - while True Detective and JC's the Thing were Lovecraftian they were not actual HPL adaptions.

Strangely enough (and a sidetrack) - HPLs work does well in theater/play/prose format.

What adaptions are you talking about specifically? The material put out by Lurker Films or the more recent full length Call of Cthulhu or Whisperer in Darkness?

Yeah, I know those are Lovecraftian but not actual HPL adaptations. That's my point—I cited those as examples of how I know that it's POSSIBLE to adapt Lovecraft... you just need the right person, the right support from a producer/studio, and the right help to make it happen.

The best adaptations I've seen would be:

Call of Cthulhu and Whisper in Darkness, both mentioned above (these are both really good)

Die Farbre, a German adaption of "The Colour out of Space"

Re-animator (sure, it's got plenty that Lovecraft would have never put into the story, but the movie itself does a great job at embracing the self-aware comedy of the original)

From Beyond's pre-credits sequence is pretty faithful and good, and what follows, as an expansion (or sequel, if you will) of what developed after that story is cool.

The Haunted Palace is the best of the Corman productions, although hampered by poor special effects. Those are made up for by Vincent Price as Charles Dexter Ward though.

Dagon is about 80% awesome and 20% not so much an adaption of Shadow Over Innsmouth.

I have all of those with the exception of Die Farbre and The Resurrected - two of which I will check out asap (I heard of The Resurrected, just never seen it readily available for sale).

I guess I'm looking for bigger studio or more mainstream attempts at getting his work out there.

I agree though - I think it's possible, if not difficult considering Hollywood today.

And I would have much rather have had a del Torro's "At the Mountains of Madness" than Scotts rip-off "Prometheus" (Xenomorphs instead of Shoggoths, Engineers instead of Elder things, etc).

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Not really sure that "Big Studio" is the best solution for a Lovecraft adaptation... it'd be COOL to see "Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath" done to the same extreme as, say, Avatar... but that'd also be fraught with peril.


HPL wrote Reanimator with intentional self-aware comedy?!!

Dark Archive

James Jacobs wrote:

Not really sure that "Big Studio" is the best solution for a Lovecraft adaptation... it'd be COOL to see "Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath" done to the same extreme as, say, Avatar... but that'd also be fraught with peril.

Yes, Hollywood's default love interest and the addition of wise cracking likeable sidekick will kill anything.

I would still like a big screen full production take though...if not just for budget, but the setting, props - etc.

Side-side track here - I know Paizo does quite a few easter eggs from old monster movies, modules and horror stories - from Deadly Mantises to crazed hermits in the woods to the Doom that came to Varnhold.

Have you guys ever considered using NPCs as homages to old sci-fi or horror actors or characters they played?

Maybe a tribute character to Lee as Duc de Richlu in "the Devil Rides Out" or Tom Baker's Koura in "the Golden Voyage of Sinbad"?
Mr. Price - anywhere?

They may already be there and I just don't see them, but I think it would be kind of fun since many of those greats did shape several young gamers concepts of heroes and villains.

Anyway


I watched "The Resurrected" on Netflix last spring, if that helps.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Thelemic_Noun wrote:
HPL wrote Reanimator with intentional self-aware comedy?!!

He regarded it as one of his least favorite works, that's for sure, and wrote it specifically to pander to a certain type of format in the pulps at the time, and as a result there is a bit of self-awareness going on. It was also one of his earlier works, of course...

Pathfinder Creative Director, Frog God Games

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Auxmaulous wrote:

Have you guys ever considered using NPCs as homages to old sci-fi or horror actors or characters they played?

Maybe a tribute character to Lee as Duc de Richlu in "the Devil Rides Out" or Tom Baker's Koura in "the Golden Voyage of Sinbad"?
Mr. Price - anywhere?

They may already be there and I just don't see them, but I think it would be kind of fun since many of those greats did shape several young gamers concepts of heroes and villains.

Anyway

I don't know about horror, but I'm pretty sure John Locke from Lost is on the cover of Vaults of Madness.


He totally is, and, from the very first time, I couldn't not see it. It's pretty amazing.

EDIT: And Keifer Southerland is the [minor spoiler] ex-paladin in the first AP installment of Kingmaker.


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Auxmaulous wrote:

Have you guys ever considered using NPCs as homages to old sci-fi or horror actors or characters they played?

Maybe a tribute character to Lee as Duc de Richlu in "the Devil Rides Out" or Tom Baker's Koura in "the Golden Voyage of Sinbad"?
Mr. Price - anywhere?

They may already be there and I just don't see them, but I think it would be kind of fun since many of those greats did shape several young gamers concepts of heroes and villains.

Anyway

I don't know about horror, but I'm pretty sure John Locke from Lost is on the cover of Vaults of Madness.

Then again, there are a lot of NPCs and characters in the illustrations of Pathfinder books that resemble famous actors. You will never be able to convince me that the iconic wizard is not Sean Connery with long hair.


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All I know is if you create a monster that looks like a clown and turns into a demon scorpion thing, and yells "They All Float Down Here!"....I'm not going to able to sleep for a month...again...

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

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There's a PF version of The Thing in Legendary Games Mythic Monsters: Aliens, for those interested.


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Actually these would make fun monsters in a Bestiary too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_PrRd-Y56c


That alien vampire from the Thundarr the Barbarian was great. In fact there are plenty of cool creatures from old school 80's movies and cartoons that would be interesting.

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4; Contributor; Publisher, Legendary Games

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Auxmaulous wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Does my heart good to see folks talking about the best director in the biz!

The Hungry Fog is VERY much inspired by his movie, in any event. Note how well it works with undead! I'd peg the sailors from the movie as revenants who have leprosy though.

A creature inspired by the monster from The Thing was statted up in d20 Modern's Menace Manual; I had to loan my copy of the movie to Matt Sernett so he could watch it several times to get all the abilities in, and you'll note some easter eggs in the Star Doppelganger's entry in that book as a result.

Yes, a PF version would be excellent.

JC's version of The Thing was very Lovecraftian - actually one of the best non-mythos mythos-style creatures ever depicted in cinema (HPL doesn't translate well to the cinema), if that makes any sense.

We created a version of The Thing as a mythic monster which we called the qomok in Mythic Monsters: Aliens. We did a preview piece on it before the book came out highlighting the monster, with Michael Jaecks' excellently horrible piece of artwork for it. You can check it out here.

HA: Ninja'd by Ben!

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

You were only partially ninja'd, Jason. I couldn't remember if there was a preview for it floating around for it anywhere (and there was!)


Is there anyway we can have a list of all the creatures from the hardcover bestiaries that were based on or "inspired" by monsters from movies, TV shows, and books?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
Dreaming Psion wrote:
What I would like to to know is if the Festering Spirit (p. 98) is the PF analogue to the Onionhead Ghost (aka "Slimer") from the Ghostbusters media franchise as I suspect it is.
Nope. That monster's source is actually a lot more bland. We made an alternate paint of an allip or spectre or something and painted it green and called it a festering spirit as a promo mini, and decided that it needed its own monster. No real inspiration here from anywhere else than minis and our imaginations.

Well, even if not, it serves well as is, so thank you all for making this critter. (And for all the other neat things all of you at Paizo make/do.)


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
The Hungry Fog is VERY much inspired by his movie, in any event. Note how well it works with undead! I'd peg the sailors from the movie as revenants who have leprosy though.

Not to rain on your parade here, but the hungry fog I recently sent against my players in

Spoiler:
Maider, Mother, Crone
was easily the most pathetic monster I've seen in a long time in any adventure. With its brilliant initiative modifier (I rolled a 3, for a total of ZERO) the thing had no chance at all against an 8th level partyl. A 6d6 damage touch attack is nice, but if you never get a turn, that doesn't help. Even if everybody had failed their dramatic will save ("I got 8 total, so I fail" – "No... that's actually enough") and had been shaken that wouldn't have changed a thing. I almost felt like I had to apologize to my players. :)
Contributor

Zaister wrote:
Not to rain on your parade here, but the hungry fog I recently sent against my players in ** spoiler omitted ** was easily the most pathetic monster I've seen in a long time in any adventure. With its brilliant initiative modifier (I rolled a 3, for a total of ZERO) the thing had no chance at all against an 8th level partyl.

Hmm.

That adventure is for level 7+ characters.
Your PCs were 8th level.
Hungry fog is CR 6.
The Gamemastering chapter of the Core Rulebook says an APL -1 encounter is "easy."
For your 8th-level PCs, it was an APL –2 encounter.
And you're surprised the hungry fog had no chance against them?
APL –2 is like one orc war1 (CR 1/3) against an APL 1 party of PCs (four level 1 PCs). It's a slaughter.
In that encounter, the [other monster] is CR 9 and is the real challenge (for the level 7+ PCs). The CR 6 hungry fog is just there for flavor.


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I know it was designed an easy encounter, or rather just something to bolster the other creature. In total that also didn't really threaten my party, and the fog just struck me at that moment to be particularly pathetic, and if you look at all its stats with its negative save modifiers and DC 8 ability, I can't help but feel pity. I could also have rolled better for initiative, of course. Probably just the way the encounter developed for my group.

Contributor

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Now the hungry fog feels bad. You should send one against an APL 3 party so it feels good about itself. :)

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think Sean just spoiled the next Free RPG Day module.


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TriOmegaZero wrote:
I think Sean just spoiled the next Free RPG Day module.

That'll be when they figure out how to stack four of the monsters in a tiny room with the PCs :)


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Wyntr wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I think Sean just spoiled the next Free RPG Day module.
That'll be when they figure out how to stack four of the monsters in a tiny room with the PCs :)

With no STR score, one would have thought that the monster in question could squeeze without penalties anywhere ... *winkwink,nudgenudge*


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Turin the Mad wrote:
Wyntr wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I think Sean just spoiled the next Free RPG Day module.
That'll be when they figure out how to stack four of the monsters in a tiny room with the PCs :)
With no STR score, one would have thought that the monster in question could squeeze without penalties anywhere ... *winkwink,nudgenudge*

"Does anyone else hear evil cackling?"


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Orthos wrote:
Turin the Mad wrote:
Wyntr wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
I think Sean just spoiled the next Free RPG Day module.
That'll be when they figure out how to stack four of the monsters in a tiny room with the PCs :)
With no STR score, one would have thought that the monster in question could squeeze without penalties anywhere ... *winkwink,nudgenudge*
"Does anyone else hear evil cackling?"

I am certain that I have no idea what you're talking about. None whatsoever. Nope, nope, not me...

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Zaister wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
The Hungry Fog is VERY much inspired by his movie, in any event. Note how well it works with undead! I'd peg the sailors from the movie as revenants who have leprosy though.
Not to rain on your parade here, but the hungry fog I recently sent against my players in ** spoiler omitted ** was easily the most pathetic monster I've seen in a long time in any adventure. With its brilliant initiative modifier (I rolled a 3, for a total of ZERO) the thing had no chance at all against an 8th level partyl. A 6d6 damage touch attack is nice, but if you never get a turn, that doesn't help. Even if everybody had failed their dramatic will save ("I got 8 total, so I fail" – "No... that's actually enough") and had been shaken that wouldn't have changed a thing. I almost felt like I had to apologize to my players. :)

Well... geez. Against an 8th level party, I would HOPE that a CR 6 creature wouldn't have a chance. A CR 8 creature is only really supposed to reduce an 8th level party's resources by 20% or so, after all... a creature 2 points lower than Average Party Level should barely be a speed bump.

And know what? Now and then, it's good for the PCs to kick ass.

ALSO: What SKR said.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Zaister wrote:
Not to rain on your parade here, but the hungry fog I recently sent against my players in ** spoiler omitted ** was easily the most pathetic monster I've seen in a long time in any adventure. With its brilliant initiative modifier (I rolled a 3, for a total of ZERO) the thing had no chance at all against an 8th level partyl.

Hmm.

That adventure is for level 7+ characters.
Your PCs were 8th level.
Hungry fog is CR 6.
The Gamemastering chapter of the Core Rulebook says an APL -1 encounter is "easy."
For your 8th-level PCs, it was an APL –2 encounter.
And you're surprised the hungry fog had no chance against them?
APL –2 is like one orc war1 (CR 1/3) against an APL 1 party of PCs (four level 1 PCs). It's a slaughter.
In that encounter, the [other monster] is CR 9 and is the real challenge (for the level 7+ PCs). The CR 6 hungry fog is just there for flavor.

That module states in the intro level pacing section that the party should be 8th level before they enter the dungeon that includes that encounter, 9th before they hit a big specific fight and 10th before they leave that dungeon so his party was not more powerful than expected by the module.

Even compared to the standard CR 6 though the Hungry fog is fairly open to being taken out quickly. Its AC of 5 is 14 below the average AC of 19 for its CR. Its strong save is 3 below CR average and its weak saves are 6 and 8 below average for its CR with both being negative save modifiers. Combined with hp that are 11 lower than average for the CR and a super low initiative this monster is particularly vulnerable to being dispatched before it can act.

Its attacks are either doing average 21 damage on one target compared to the average 25 suggested damage, or a non-grappling engulf over possibly multiple opponents that does 11 average damage plus staggered to each. Its secondary ability is DC 8 compared to an average of 11 for its secondary special ability are weak. The Bestiary states that generally monster ability DCs should not go below the secondary DC numbers and this one does by 3.

Mechanically it synergises well with undead and evil clerics, but by the core bestiary numbers this looks like it should be a lower CR than it is listed at.


"Prince of Darkness" is great. I rewatched it just last month.

The inspiration for the Kyton in Bestiary 3 is pretty obvious.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Obviously, we still need to get the giant bat-spider from Angry Red Planet.

Should have a massive stealth bonus for you not to notice its body over you when you happen to see one of its legs.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

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Angry Red Planet is the BEST.

Silver Crusade

Is there anything inspired by It?

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Carpenter is amazing. Love The Fog, The Thing, and Prince of Darkness. I also enjoy They Live, Christine, Ghosts of Mars, Big Trouble and Village of the Damned. And one of the best parts of Carpenter is the music in his movies. I love using The Thing soundtrack in my games!

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