Sex changes


Rules Questions

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Spoiler:
Elixir of Sex Shift
Price 2,250 gp
CL 9th
Aura moderate transmutation
Upon drinking this elixir, a character changes sex, permanently transforming into a member of a different biological sex. While the user’s physiology changes dramatically and the user’s features adjust slightly to take on the qualities of the new sex, the character is still recognizable as the same person. The character has only minor control over the specific details of this new appearance, and the elixir grants no benefit on Disguise skill checks or similar checks.
This elixir’s magic functions instantaneously and can’t be dispelled, though drinking a second elixir of sex shift reverts the character back to the former sex and appearance. The elixir has no effect on characters who are pregnant or are of races with no sexual differentiation. Characters of races with more than two sexes may decide which sex this elixir transforms them into.
Construction requirements
1,125 GP, Craft Wondrous Items, polymorph

Some questions:

  • Does the character's height and weight change? If so, is it rolled randomly or is the same roll used but with the new base?


  • Does true seeing reveal the transmuted creature's true form?


  • If a race is described as always female, but picturing a male version is trivial (such as hags), does the elixir work?


  • If a race has different ability modifiers for different genders (as is the case with many far-out, nonhumanoid creatures), do the character's ability scores change?


  • Can a Spellcraft check reveal that the creature's form is the result of a magical effect?


  • Can an analyze dweomer or greater arcane sight spell reveal that a creature's form is the result of a magical effect?


  • If a character is sterile before drinking the elixir, are they sterile afterwards?

    On the same note, if a woman is sterile due to menopause, does drinking the elixir remove the sterility?


  • Can plant creatures, undead, outsiders, and/or dragons use the elixir?


  • If a character is suffering from an effect that can only target creatures of one gender (such as certain types of venereal disease, or familial curses such as "the firstborn sons of House Blahblah shall all die before their sixteenth winter"), does drinking the elixir remove the effect?

    And if the effect is removed, does it return upon drinking a second?


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    whats your game here? are you genuinely interested or just trying to stir the pot?


    captain yesterday wrote:
    whats your game here? are you genuinely interested or just trying to stir the pot?

    I don't have any sort of political agenda, puerile sense of humor, desire to troll, or passive-aggressive bigotry regarding the subject.

    If that's what your question means.

  • If a creature drinks the elixir while under a polymorph effect to assume a form ineligible for the elixir, does the elixir effect take hold upon returning to the creature's base form, or is it wasted?


  • 3 people marked this as a favorite.
    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
  • Does true seeing reveal the transmuted creature's true form?
  • The new gender is it's "True form."


    2 people marked this as a favorite.

    You could have combined all your bullet points into one post.


    1 person marked this as a favorite.
    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
  • If a race is described as always female, but picturing a male version is trivial (such as hags), does the elixir work?
  • I imagine if the race only has one gender the elixir fails.


  • If a character's race is normally gendered, but the character is genderless as a result of, for example, a mishap with the girdle of masculinity/femininity, does the elixir have any effect?


  • Thelemic_Noun wrote:
  • If a race has different ability modifiers for different genders (as is the case with many far-out, nonhumanoid creatures), do the character's ability scores change?
  • If, for some bizarre reason, the race has gender specific modifiers I imagine those change as well. Though frankly, I've never seen a race with such modifiers.


    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
  • Can plant creatures, undead, outsiders, and/or dragons use the elixir?
  • Do they have a gender? If yes, I imagine it works fine. Though undead are not alive, so perhaps not.


    Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
    You could have combined all your bullet points into one post.

    The FAQ guidelines state that it's better to separate different questions into different posts, so the designers know which question is important when answering a FAQ-flagged post.

    For example, the true seeing question is more important than the question about hags, for example.


    i dont know why you cant figure this all out on your own i guess is why i asked before


    Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
  • If a race has different ability modifiers for different genders (as is the case with many far-out, nonhumanoid creatures), do the character's ability scores change?
  • If, for some bizarre reason, the race has gender specific modifiers I imagine those change as well. Though frankly, I've never seen a race with such modifiers.

    It's more common in Sci-Fi stories, where gender dimorphism can be more extreme. Bipedal talking anglerfish PCs are at home in Star Wars, but would seem weird to D&D players.

    Wow, I just realized it's been over twelve years since I played the Star Wars Revised Core Rulebook.


    captain yesterday wrote:
    i dont know why you cant figure this all out on your own

    Because I didn't design the item in question.

    And I definitely didn't design the various creatures in the Bestiaries that might be eligible for this elixir.


    Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
    Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
  • If a race has different ability modifiers for different genders (as is the case with many far-out, nonhumanoid creatures), do the character's ability scores change?
  • If, for some bizarre reason, the race has gender specific modifiers I imagine those change as well. Though frankly, I've never seen a race with such modifiers.

    The Lashunta would be an example in Pathfinder.


  • What happens if a Formian Queen drinks the elixir?


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    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

    Most of these questions don't have fixed answers (although some do). Here's how I would rule with indications of why where necessary.

    -Does the character's height and weight change? If so, is it rolled randomly or is the same roll used but with the new base?

    No explicit rule, but I'd go with same roll if possible since they're recognizably the same, so they are the same interpretation of a different base.

    -Does true seeing reveal the transmuted creature's true form?

    Agree with TCG - new form is true form as there's no magic keeping it that way any longer.

    -If a race is described as always female, but picturing a male version is trivial (such as hags), does the elixir work?

    No. "The elixir has no effect on characters who are pregnant or are of races with no sexual differentiation." Only one sex = no sexual differentiation.

    -If a race has different ability modifiers for different genders (as is the case with many far-out, nonhumanoid creatures), do the character's ability scores change?

    Yes. "While the user’s physiology changes dramatically and the user’s features adjust slightly to take on the qualities of the new sex..."

    -Can a Spellcraft check reveal that the creature's form is the result of a magical effect?

    No. Not a spell effect. If I saw both the male and female form, a Knowledge (arcana) is in order to offer an explanation.

    -Can an analyze dweomer or greater arcane sight spell reveal that a creature's form is the result of a magical effect?

    No. Instantaneous effects don't continue to have an aura.

    -If a character is sterile before drinking the elixir, are they sterile afterwards? On the same note, if a woman is sterile due to menopause, does drinking the elixir remove the sterility?

    Depends. If the same effect would cause sterility in the new form, they remain sterile.

    -Can plant creatures, undead, outsiders, and/or dragons use the elixir?

    Depends on the critter. Some plants have gender, others don't. If you have gender, it'll do something. Otherwise it'll do nothing.

    -If a character is suffering from an effect that can only target creatures of one gender (such as certain types of venereal disease, or familial curses such as "the firstborn sons of House Blahblah shall all die before their sixteenth winter"), does drinking the elixir remove the effect? And if the effect is removed, does it return upon drinking a second?

    Depends on the effect. I'd say "firstborn son" doesn't depend on current state, only birth state. "Eldest son" would be affected and a daughter could steal the curse by becoming the eldest son.

    -If a creature drinks the elixir while under a polymorph effect to assume a form ineligible for the elixir, does the elixir effect take hold upon returning to the creature's base form, or is it wasted?

    Unclear. I'd probably say it doesn't have an impact upon return to original form. I could see this going either way though.

    In general, this doesn't need too much adjudication because there are few game mechanics that depend on your gender. Interestingly, sexual preference is something that has game effects (various fey having different effects on critters that are attracted to females, for example). Depending on whether your interpretation of whether the setting is "likes females" or "hetero" this could change your preferences. I'd go with "player (for PCs) or DM (for NPCs) just decides" since it keeps it a lot simpler. For my PCs, I wouldn't change the preferred gender because that's my unresearched understanding of how it works in the real world.


    Berinor wrote:

    -Can a Spellcraft check reveal that the creature's form is the result of a magical effect?

    No. Not a spell effect. If I saw both the male and female form, a Knowledge (arcana) is in order to offer an explanation.

    Hmm. Seems Pathfinder removed the "Identify a strange or unique magical effect, such as the effects of a magic stream"—DC 30 or higher—option from the Spellcraft skill. Odd thing to leave out.


    Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

    These are just my guesses, but I'll take a stab at some of these:

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    Does the character's height and weight change? If so, is it rolled randomly or is the same roll used but with the new base?

    My presumption would be that - in reference to the height/weight tables for races - you'd keep the same roll but use the new base.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    Does true seeing reveal the transmuted creature's true form?

    My original inclination here was to say no; my reasoning being that, as an instaneous effect, this potion is essentially altering what a creature's "true" form is. As such, true seeing wouldn't see through this any more than it'd see that someone petrified by flesh to stone was actually a person and not a statue.

    However, the actual text for true seeing says that it "sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things." That's very broad language...enough so that I'd probably concede that true seeing does see through the effect of this elixer.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    If a race is described as always female, but picturing a male version is trivial (such as hags), does the elixir work?

    I'd call this a solid "no." The elixer states that it has no effect on races with no sexual differentation. Given that hags are a unisex race per se (needing members of another race to reproduce), I'd say that this elixer has no effect on them if they imbibed it.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    If a race has different ability modifiers for different genders (as is the case with many far-out, nonhumanoid creatures), do the character's ability scores change?

    My hunch here is that they would, though it'd certainly be easier and less math-intensive if they didn't. That said, given the lack of a disclaimer in that regard, I feel fairly solid on this being an affirmative.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    Can a Spellcraft check reveal that the creature's form is the result of a magical effect?

    I don't see why it would. Reading over the skill description, I don't see anything that implies that it can, by itself, recognize effects created via magic.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    Can an analyze dweomer or greater arcane sight spell reveal that a creature's form is the result of a magical effect?

    The answer here is "yes, but..."

    As an instantaneous effect, after consuming the elixer I'd say that this only works as per the rules for lingering auras, as there'd be no active one. Since this magic item has a caster level of 9th, it has only a moderate aura, meaning that it's lingering aura after being used would only be detectable for 1d6 minutes. After that: gone.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:

    If a character is sterile before drinking the elixir, are they sterile afterwards?

    On the same note, if a woman is sterile due to menopause, does drinking the elixir remove the sterility?

    I'd say, respectively, yes and yes.

    There's nothing indicating that this elixer changes any underlying conditions a creature has, so if something caused them to be sterile before, then that'd be the case now.

    The sole exception would be conditions imposed solely due to biological sex, which menopause falls under. Changing that condition removes the effect that it has; ergo, a menopausal woman using this elixer to become a man would have (barring any other condition) sperm that function the same as any other man of their age.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    Can plant creatures, undead, outsiders, and/or dragons use the elixir?

    I don't see why they couldn't. It would probably have no effect on a plant creature, but a female vampire could become male (or vice versa), the same way a dragon could become a dragoness (or vice versa), and an outsider could switch sexes presuming that it had a biological sex to begin with.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:

    If a character is suffering from an effect that can only target creatures of one gender (such as certain types of venereal disease, or familial curses such as "the firstborn sons of House Blahblah shall all die before their sixteenth winter"), does drinking the elixir remove the effect?

    And if the effect is removed, does it return upon drinking a second?

    Respectively, I'd say that the answers here are yes, and maybe.

    With regards to the first question, removing yourself from the list of applicable targets that the unspecified "effect" can affect seems like a legitimate way to avoid it.

    As to the second, that depends largely on what the effect is. More specificity is required, though I suspect that this might end up being a GM's call anyway.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    If a creature drinks the elixir while under a polymorph effect to assume a form ineligible for the elixir, does the elixir effect take hold upon returning to the creature's base form, or is it wasted?

    This one is tricky. The rules for polymorphing effects state that "While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature." Given that the wording there implies that this is largely an appearance-based (in other words, superficial) change, I'd say that this elixer still works.

    However, the elixer itself is based on a polymorph spell, which makes it likely subject to at least some of the general polymorphing guidelines, such as "You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell."

    As such, I suppose I'd end up defaulting to that last sentence, and say that someone under the effect of a polymorph effect of any sort (regardless of if it makes them into a creature that is normally ineligible for this elixer) can choose whether or not it affects them.

    That strikes me as a pretty unintuitive answer though, so I suspect that this one will be a judgment call for most GMs. Personally, given that polymorph effects are usually temporary changes that don't change what you actually are, whereas this elixer is an instanteous change, I'd say it works anyway, with the change becoming apparent once the polymorph effect ends.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    If a character's race is normally gendered, but the character is genderless as a result of, for example, a mishap with the girdle of masculinity/femininity, does the elixir have any effect?

    That also looks like it might be a GM's call. That said, if the effect is an instantaneous one (like the elixer itself) then I'd say that the elixer has no effect on them, as per its clause regarding races with no sexual differentation (a strict reading would say that the character's "race" still has sexual differentation per se, even if that character doesn't, but that's a little too pedantic for me).

    If the effect that made the character genderless are an active effect, however (even if a permanent one), I'd say that the elixer does still affect them, though the effect wouldn't show until the effect that made the character sexless was removed.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    What happens if a Formian Queen drinks the elixir?

    This is splitting hairs, but I'd say that a formian queen is technically a different "race" from other formians, and so she wouldn't be subject to the elixer's effects. Basically, even if a creature has a broader category that it falls under, if it has its own creature listing then it's a member of a separate race. That's just my own guideline, though.

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    Could a limited wish, wish, or miracle spell remove the effect, and if so, does the target get a saving throw?

    Given their scope as some of the most powerful magic in the game - and certainly higher-level than a polymorph spell that's used in this elixer's creation - I'd say they definitely could remove the effect. I'd also definitely grant the target a saving throw versus these spells in this case (though they could always choose to voluntarily fail it, if they wanted the effect removed).

    Paizo Employee Design Manager

    Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
  • If a race has different ability modifiers for different genders (as is the case with many far-out, nonhumanoid creatures), do the character's ability scores change?
  • If, for some bizarre reason, the race has gender specific modifiers I imagine those change as well. Though frankly, I've never seen a race with such modifiers.

    There's a race that appears in People of the Stars and the Inner Sea Bestiary that specifically has different modifiers depending on gender. I think the racial trait is call Sexual Dimorphism and basically the men are big foolish apes and the women are delicate beauties. I can't recall the name off the top of my head, but they're out there.


    Berinor wrote:
    Depends on the effect. I'd say "firstborn son" doesn't depend on current state, only birth state. "Eldest son" would be affected and a daughter could steal the curse by becoming the eldest son.

    I got to thinking, and I just realized that if the curse were "eldest son," then that would mean every son would be affected, because there would always be an eldest son unless every son was dead.


    True seeing/Analyze Dweomer etc. - no this is a new, permanent form created by an instantaneous effect, there is no existing magical effect for it to see.

    Single sex races - doesn't work, says so right in the text. Doesn't matter whether you can picture it or not it is specifically disallowed.

    Spellcraft - arguably you could be able to tell that the form has been altered by magic with a sufficiently high check, but i doubt you could tell specifically what (one of the few questions not easily answered).

    Races - covered adequately by TCG for both ability modifiers and those affected, and I agree that undead would be unaffected (but I can see an argument why they would be).

    Curse/disease etc - you are for all effects considered your new gender. If that means a curse/disease can no longer affect you because of your gender, then it can no longer affect you. Other than that specific caveat the effect makes no changes to your status in any way. Other diseases remain in effect, if you were sterile, you are still sterile etc.

    changes to weight/height - I would keep these proportional, you are still recognisably you, if you can back calculate it and apply the actual rolls to the other gender so much the better.

    Under the effect of polymorph - It will ignore the polymorph. this affects your true form only, so it would take effect when you drink it, but you wouldn't necessarily see it until the polymorph wears off.

    Girdle - I seem to recall this needing a wish/miracle to overcome (I can't locate a d20 copy), I doubt this would have the power to overcome this curse.


  • Could a limited wish, wish, or miracle spell remove the effect, and if so, does the target get a saving throw?

  • Grand Lodge

    Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
  • If a character is suffering from an effect that can only target creatures of one gender (such as certain types of venereal disease, or familial curses such as "the firstborn sons of House Blahblah shall all die before their sixteenth winter"), does drinking the elixir remove the effect?

    And if the effect is removed, does it return upon drinking a second?

  • You do understand that FAQ means Frequently Asked Question, not Give Me An Answer For Every Single Possible Way I Can Twist Or Corner Case A Magical Effect?

    The answer to most of your questions is GM's call, because they're well outside the intended scope of this elixir.

    The Elixir is an instantaneous effect, whose result is no more liable to be dispelled than the after effects of a fireball. That might answer much of your questions right there.


    No need to get hostile.

    And what exactly is the intended scope of the elixir, anyway? It's obviously not for mechanical benefit, but it does change an aspect of the game world, which requires adjudication.


    Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    Berinor wrote:
    Depends on the effect. I'd say "firstborn son" doesn't depend on current state, only birth state. "Eldest son" would be affected and a daughter could steal the curse by becoming the eldest son.
    I got to thinking, and I just realized that if the curse were "eldest son," then that would mean every son would be affected, because there would always be an eldest son unless every son was dead.

    Hmm. I see what you mean in that I was taking <firstborn son> as indivisible and (<eldest> <son>) as separable. I don't know if that's the right plan. In any case, it's a question of how you parse the curse and when it processes. If it checks at the 16th birthday or whatever, it would bypass the now-female child. If it checks at birth and passes to them, it would already be upon them.


    The elixer isn't an "effect" as the rest of the system understands it. It changes a part of the character. This isn't a polymorph effect or an illusion. This character is now the opposite gender.

    Wish could not remove the "effect". It might be able to replicat the elixer, but it is not an ongoing effect like a baleful polymorph and therefore can't be "removed".

    And from now on, you should really consolidate all of your questions to one post. It's more organized and makes it easier for people to reply to you. That rule you cited is more for FAQ candidates, which this question doesn't fit the bill.


    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    And what exactly is the intended scope of the elixir, anyway? It's obviously not for mechanical benefit, but it does change an aspect of the game world, which requires adjudication.

    It's for characters of masculine biology that want feminine biology. There really isn't more to it than that. It's a way for trans characters to achieve their desired change without needing to find a magical accident like the Girdle of Opposite Gender.


    I can't find this elixir in Ultimate Equipment or on Archives of Nethys. Is this from a 3rd party product?


    Albatoonoe wrote:
    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    And what exactly is the intended scope of the elixir, anyway? It's obviously not for mechanical benefit, but it does change an aspect of the game world, which requires adjudication.
    It's for characters of masculine biology that want feminine biology. There really isn't more to it than that. It's a way for trans characters to achieve their desired change without needing to find a magical accident like the Girdle of Opposite Gender.

    It's also for characters of feminine biology that want masculine biology. It does work both ways.

    It could also be much like and in some ways worse than the Girdle for those who aren't trans, should they be tricked or forced into taking it. Remove curse won't fix it. Nothing can detect it.

    Another dose will return you to your original sex, but by RAW, I'm not sure it guarantees your original appearance.


    OldSkoolRPG wrote:
    I can't find this elixir in Ultimate Equipment or on Archives of Nethys. Is this from a 3rd party product?

    Advanced Class Guide.

    d20pfsrd.com is dragging their feet on incorporating the magic items.


    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    OldSkoolRPG wrote:
    I can't find this elixir in Ultimate Equipment or on Archives of Nethys. Is this from a 3rd party product?

    Advanced Class Guide.

    d20pfsrd.com is dragging their feet on incorporating the magic items.

    Cool...thanks!

    Grand Lodge

    1 person marked this as a favorite.

    Of all the wastes of time, in all the forums, in all the internet, you walks into here.

    Silver Crusade

    claudekennilol wrote:
    Of all the wastes of time, in all the forums, in all the internet, you walks into here.

    Oh this is great compared to any paladin thread


    claudekennilol wrote:
    Of all the wastes of time, in all the forums, in all the internet, you walks into here.

    And your comment wasn't a waste of time because... reasons.


    I think Paizo made a mistake when they said that pregnant characters can't use the elixir, because that opens up the incredibly divisive question of when pregnancy begins, and in a fantasy context where souls exist, that question is a lot harder to answer scientifically. Mature game groups will be able to steer around this issue but it would probably be better to solve the core problem.

    Because, for example, polymorph any object works on pregnant creatures even when changing their sex, and presumably the offspring would return if the effect ended.

    To avoid having this argument, I'd houserule that the eggs/bodies of developing offspring are absorbed into the body until any gender effect is reversed, at which point development picks up where it left off. Any "soul thingy" or whatever just hangs out in the ether with the other unborn souls until the effect reverses, and passes on like normal if the motherfather dies while anatomically male, because the offspring would be dead then too even without the effect.

    Paizo Employee Creative Director

    6 people marked this as a favorite.
    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
  • Does true seeing reveal the transmuted creature's true form?
  • No, because the new sex IS the creature's new true form.


    3 people marked this as a favorite.
    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    d20pfsrd.com is dragging their feet on incorporating the magic items.

    d20pfsrd.com depends a great deal upon volunteers to help John add/edit/update stuff. If additions are running a bit slow and you have some time to spare, perhaps you might contact John and help out?

    Paizo Employee Creative Director

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:

    ** spoiler omitted **

    Some questions:

  • Does the character's height and weight change? If so, is it rolled randomly or is the same roll used but with the new base?
  • That's up to the GM, but if it does, it shouldn't change much.

    Paizo Employee Creative Director

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
  • If a race is described as always female, but picturing a male version is trivial (such as hags), does the elixir work?
  • Yes. And vice-versa, if the race is described as always male (such as with satyrs).

    Paizo Employee Creative Director

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
  • If a race has different ability modifiers for different genders (as is the case with many far-out, nonhumanoid creatures), do the character's ability scores change?
  • Yes.

    Liberty's Edge

    3 people marked this as a favorite.
    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
    I think Paizo made a mistake when they said that pregnant characters can't use the elixir, because that opens up the incredibly divisive question of when pregnancy begins, and in a fantasy context where souls exist, that question is a lot harder to answer scientifically. Mature game groups will be able to steer around this issue but it would probably be better to solve the core problem.

    Uh...'pregnant' is a medical term. It has nothing to do with when there's a soul or a human life involved (which is the subject of the debate you refer to). It's purely a matter of conception having happened.

    This paragraph and all that follows thus make no sense.

    Paizo Employee Creative Director

    Thelemic_Noun wrote:
  • Can a Spellcraft check reveal that the creature's form is the result of a magical effect?
  • No, because it's an instantaneous effect that leaves no residual magical clues behind. Like healing doesn't make wounds healed radiate magic.

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