How's the Power Creep Post-ACG?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Liberty's Edge

Thoughts from the community?

Things look pretty comparable to me on a glance.
The bloodrager seems to be a little bad-A at level 1 but that levels off. And the warpriest doesn't seem as bad as the playtest.


A lot of feats and archetypes are sheer, unadulterated, power creep.

Power creep for classes that need it!
Power creep for the strongest classes!


Insain Dragoon wrote:

A lot of feats and archetypes are sheer, unadulterated, power creep.

Power creep for classes that need it!
Power creep for the strongest classes!

Lol, pretty accurate IMO!


I know that there is a little powerful options, but you have to sift through sheer tons of junk to find them.

Liberty's Edge

I disagree. The Arcanist is debatably power creep (but only slightly IMO...Wizards are likely still better, and probably don't even need the Exploiter archetype to be that way), and there are some boosts for Monks and a few weaker classes (which I wouldn't call power creep). But that's pretty much it, IMO.

Oh, except for Divine Protection, which is pretty much the most broken thing ever. So...that's Power Creep, but also likely to be errataed shortly, and already banned in PFS.

Shadow Lodge

Right on schedule and going according to plan. ;P


The ACG has easily the highest power level of any book since the core rulebook. (Sans mythic.) Extremely powerful new classes in the arcanist and others, extremely powerful archetypes, including some that immensely favor 1 level dips, extremely powerful feats, and extremely powerful and low-cost magic items. I've read through the book a few times, and I think there are some incredible synergies that won't even be apparent to the community at large for a while, in addition to the super obvious ones like the arcanist and divine protection.


Stark_ wrote:
The ACG has easily the highest power level of any book since the core rulebook.

I hope you forgot about the Mythic Adventures book.


Rub-Eta wrote:
Stark_ wrote:
The ACG has easily the highest power level of any book since the core rulebook.
I hope you forgot about the Mythic Adventures book.

>_< Right. There's subsystems to get you. However, my point remains unless mythic is assumed as the norm.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Can we really say "Post ACG" when it's barely been out?


Not sure power creep is the right word when by and large the ACG classes are outclassed by competitors in the CRB and APG. The classes that do get shown up by the ACG are all the weaker ones anyways.

Which is kind of the exact opposite of power creep.


Jester David wrote:

Thoughts from the community?

Things look pretty comparable to me on a glance.
The bloodrager seems to be a little bad-A at level 1 but that levels off. And the warpriest doesn't seem as bad as the playtest.

I'd ask any DM to allow me to use the Playtest version of Warpriest. The new version was nuked from orbit.

I mean we have enough 3/4th BAB holy warriors: Inquisitor, Cleric, Oracle, etc.

We needed more full BAB: Paladin, Playtest Warpriest wielding weapon of god/Weapon Focus, Ranger.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

The ceiling has not been raised, the floor has far less pits.

Can you play CRB classes without archetypes or any other material and still be the strongest possible combination in the PRD? Yes.

Can you play every CRB class without any other material and still expect to be the best at your niche? No.

That is technically power creep, but not any I care about.

Arcanist don't dethrone wizards, Divine protection makes the oracle great against saves. Weeee? Had someone play that in a one shot. All it did was allow the party of level 12s to actual beat the technically CR 12-13 encounters.

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Not really a power creep more like...you have way more options. You can essentially play the class you want and take some feats here and there to still be viable in nearly all part of the games. Medium sized Cavaliers for example, now can afford to go to dungeon with medium size mounts with the undersized mount feat. Melee druids won't feel like crap from level 1, with Animal Soul, they can cast enlarge animal on themselves to go to town etc...

But yeah it's still a bit of the same, the tier 1 are still tier 1, other tiers got more options. Potentially counterfeit mage rogue is probably very good and with the rogue feats to switch magic spells around with the magic rogue talents, might even become an interesting niche.


I don't think the power level went up I think it spread out. A few options were added to classes that were viewed as struggling. More options were offered but they were mostly reworks of existing abilities in new contexts. There are lots of limits to the options.


Gnomezrule wrote:
I don't think the power level went up I think it spread out. A few options were added to classes that were viewed as struggling. More options were offered but they were mostly reworks of existing abilities in new contexts. There are lots of limits to the options.

"Condition people to expect nothing, and the slightest thing gets them all excited. Just ask Pavlov." - Jane Lane

Thus, I suspect the spread of power in comparison to what we have been conditioned to expect from PF (See: LF;QW, Rogue/Fighter Suck, Martials Can't Have Nice Things, and Schrodinger's/God Wizard), is the reason for so many knee-jerk reactions.

For a hobby that loves the idea of high fantasy blowing things up, cutting dragons in half with our fists, and jumping off skyscrapers and surviving.... We gamers seem to have a serious aversion to change.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Artemis Moonstar wrote:
We gamers seem to have a serious aversion to change.

Do we? I see the complaint of "not enough risks/new stuff" leveled pretty commonly at the ACG and Paizo in general and some disappointment in the former just rehashing old classes and the latter sticking only to vancian casting and full attack martials.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / General Discussion / How's the Power Creep Post-ACG? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.