GM making Resurrection cost more...


Advice

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silvermage wrote:
darkwarriorkarg wrote:
silvermage wrote:
I just mentioned it to him to re read the haunt and he is flippin out mad hard.
You have bigger problems than an RPG.
He just said to our friend while I was in the other room, "I hate it when she does this, she always has to tell me I'm wrong when I literally can't be wrong."

How much of his time is wrapped up in these campaigns? Does he do a lot of work/scout/school stuff too, or does it take up most of his time?


Thelemic_Noun wrote:
silvermage wrote:
darkwarriorkarg wrote:
silvermage wrote:
I just mentioned it to him to re read the haunt and he is flippin out mad hard.
You have bigger problems than an RPG.
He just said to our friend while I was in the other room, "I hate it when she does this, she always has to tell me I'm wrong when I literally can't be wrong."
How much of his time is wrapped up in these campaigns? Does he do a lot of work/scout/school stuff too, or does it take up most of his time?

Aaa at this point he doesn't have to go to scouts any longer, he works about 25 hours a week, and we are on summer break from college atm.


silvermage wrote:
Thelemic_Noun wrote:
silvermage wrote:
darkwarriorkarg wrote:
silvermage wrote:
I just mentioned it to him to re read the haunt and he is flippin out mad hard.
You have bigger problems than an RPG.
He just said to our friend while I was in the other room, "I hate it when she does this, she always has to tell me I'm wrong when I literally can't be wrong."
How much of his time is wrapped up in these campaigns? Does he do a lot of work/scout/school stuff too, or does it take up most of his time?
Aaa at this point he doesn't have to go to scouts any longer, he works about 25 hours a week, and we are on summer break from college atm.

DM'ing Pathfinder well is an art form. When did you guys pick it up? If he had picked up a bass guitar then instead, could he competenly freestyle with it by now? That's the level of artistry and commitment needed to be a truly great DM.

And wow, no wifi at the house? Are you in the Midwest by any chance?


Thelemic_Noun wrote:
silvermage wrote:
Thelemic_Noun wrote:
silvermage wrote:
darkwarriorkarg wrote:
silvermage wrote:
I just mentioned it to him to re read the haunt and he is flippin out mad hard.
You have bigger problems than an RPG.
He just said to our friend while I was in the other room, "I hate it when she does this, she always has to tell me I'm wrong when I literally can't be wrong."
How much of his time is wrapped up in these campaigns? Does he do a lot of work/scout/school stuff too, or does it take up most of his time?
Aaa at this point he doesn't have to go to scouts any longer, he works about 25 hours a week, and we are on summer break from college atm.

DM'ing Pathfinder well is an art form. When did you guys pick it up? If he had picked up a bass guitar then instead, could he competenly freestyle with it by now? That's the level of artistry and commitment needed to be a truly great DM.

And wow, no wifi at the house? Are you in the Midwest by any chance?

Lmfao yeah, he actually does play guitar and has for years and is still learning...as well as I am an artist and have been for at least 12 years, but obviously there is always something new to learn! I know it's allowable for him to make mistakes but, he doesn't seem to get constructive criticism. As an artist, that's just a part of my everyday life. People make comments about how the saturation is too high or low, or there's too mamy light sources, or how one corner isn't interesting enough. You just accept it, fix it, and move on with better knowledge. He seems to think we are attacking him...or rather that *I* am since the other people in our Rise group just don't bother with rules ever and trust everything he says and nearly die, until I, as a last ditch effort, look up the rules myself and say "Well, you missed this section here..." Etc.

I don't know, maybe I am just annoying to the whole group, and nobody gives a s!*# about the rules but me, because nobody takes it seriously except for me. They use it as a social gathering to talk about TV shows and movies, with a side of Pathfinder. :T


Well roll20.net at school lib would be good just for a break. Maybe if he'll join both on player side would ge good.
I do think that when learning hr game everyone shouod ge solid rule followers. You need a base settig before safely and fairly adding in flavors.
Its fine 5o change rules to auit your game,
But it needs to be establishes first, because otherwise people default to the natural state. I.e. the rules.
I would suggested tellijg them you'll be out for the next game or two amd just take a step back for emotions to cool down.

Im a rules bound guy myself, and ask a gm for any house rules up front, but don't argue about it at that point. So I am biased about gms who play loose with rules, there are rps thay are made for hay kinda play, pathfinder is pretty rules heavy on purpose. It can he played loose and fast, but really do heed a baseline.

Newbies need to develop a baseline really. ?

But yeah both sides needa to take a step back hefore ir hurts interpersonal relations


Wow tablet typing is slow and hard haha.

But, it does sound like u want the game amd rp. They want social engagment.
I would suggest net games fro, roll20. If u need helpd figuring it out could pm me, pretty easy to find really. I recently started a zelda bases one as a player, its neat.

As to him finding this, youve used no names etc, so its just asking unrelates people... not bad,
Maybe the angry bits, but if hes scary angry then it would be good point out maybe.

And constructive critism is good, maybe id it comes up point out its constructive not downing

Typed on tablet


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
I'm really amazed that so few people have pointed out that the real problem seems to be the poor relations here. The GM reacts rudely to questions, getting "mad" to the point that the OP is concerned he'll get "even madder" if he finds out she's still dissatisfied with the ruling. That's not a good attitude to have in many roles, especially that of the GM.

Yeah, an adversarial GM is probably one who shouldn't be a GM at all. At the risk of armchair psychology, it sounds like he might be kind of sublimating other issues and taking them out on the PCs/Players during the game.


Zwordsman wrote:

Wow tablet typing is slow and hard haha.

But, it does sound like u want the game amd rp. They want social engagment.
I would suggest net games fro, roll20. If u need helpd figuring it out could pm me, pretty easy to find really. I recently started a zelda bases one as a player, its neat.

As to him finding this, youve used no names etc, so its just asking unrelates people... not bad,
Maybe the angry bits, but if hes scary angry then it would be good point out maybe.

And constructive critism is good, maybe id it comes up point out its constructive not downing

Typed on tablet

Yeah I like to keep as many people anonymous as I can. Not because I'm making it up, but so they don't have to feel like they must defend their honor and blow up on the forums.

Yeah he just gets loud and pissy. And then yells and refuses to discuss it further...so pointing it out will be hard to do. I can try though, but probably not until tomorrow. We're going to the FLGS tomorrow, so maybe in the car on the way there, or once we are parked, because his rage-driving is scary lol.

I'll try to point that out about constructive criticism, but it will take an extremely high diplomacy check on my part... I will also apologize for any offense I have made and see if that adds to my roll... >____>;; Ha ha ha ... Sigh.


That is NOT a sign of a mature individual or a healthy emotional state. If he pops his cork that bad over a simple question, dude needs some help. Get him a checkup from the neck up.


Zhayne wrote:
That is NOT a sign of a mature individual or a healthy emotional state. If he pops his cork that bad over a simple question, dude needs some help. Get him a checkup from the neck up.

He only gets that way when it is me though. ^^;;

*That I have noticed. Usually if another player asks a question, he just listens. He just doesn't like getting his rules checked, but he has ADD and usually skims things...And you just can't skim the rules and expect to know enough about the game to play it correctly. Sigh. So I try to fill in the gaps. And he sees that as insulting, because I guess it's like constantly being reminded that he makes mistakes? I don't mean it that way though, I just want to play fair and play right. :T He also wants that...he just has a different perspective of what is fair or right.


if the rest of the party don't care about how he's running things then I say you're options are to drop the issue or stop playing. His version of the game is the rules are suggestions and he makes up the world. So since he's playing his game and the rest are fine with it then you shouldn't press the issue. He's getting mad because to him he's doing nothing wrong, he's playing his game and so are the rest. So you need to decide to play his game or not play. In this situation, assuming you want to stay with him, those are really your two options for handling this well, also assuming not playing is an option for you.

Again, playing fair and right is if all are wanting to play that way. He doesn't and if the rest aren't interested in rules either then you're the one "not playing the game right" of storytelling with some guidelines the GM can modify as he sees fit.


Flgs?
Also, never have big discusions on a trip of any kind. Extra stress on driver and fro trip is bad.
Plus if its something neat, just enjoy the day and take a whole sale break from rp arguments.

Ah sounds like my friend, he out grww it. Grew.
I handled it by letting him eventually hit a dead end h7mself. But I also kept a private list of mistakea to show him in private after he realized he was being too defensive. Not just a list of mess ups, bbut a list of mistakes and the rules corrections. So it came off as a cheat sheet jot a list of failurwa.
Thaya hars to do tho, and way harder dating wise...

Edit

Yeah if yo6 can ignore it dropping it is sure a possibility


Chess Pwn wrote:

if the rest of the party don't care about how he's running things then I say you're options are to drop the issue or stop playing. His version of the game is the rules are suggestions and he makes up the world. So since he's playing his game and the rest are fine with it then you shouldn't press the issue. He's getting mad because to him he's doing nothing wrong, he's playing his game and so are the rest. So you need to decide to play his game or not play. In this situation, assuming you want to stay with him, those are really your two options for handling this well, also assuming not playing is an option for you.

Again, playing fair and right is if all are wanting to play that way. He doesn't and if the rest aren't interested in rules either then you're the one "not playing the game right" of storytelling with some guidelines the GM can modify as he sees fit.

Yeah, you know what I'm probably just going to not play next game and let them

Spoiler:
do the Misgivings without my paladin, the PC that the crazy man is obsessively in love with and wants to kill to join his ghoul army.

Edit: Or maybe try just not saying anything out of character and keeping notes on things I want to look up later.


Als8 you can easily put in story why y8ur breaking.
In character... majorly in mourning, and teyin to deal withba world that would force someone so young to die in such a way


Zwordsman wrote:

Als8 you can easily put in story why y8ur breaking.

In character... majorly in mourning, and teyin to deal withba world that would force someone so young to die in such a way

We WERE able to resurrect her, but for 15,000...and a permanent REAL negative level.

I'm just pretty frustrated. He won't even listen to me for a minute.


Rightm sorry somehow my brained turned into "in process of being resurrected" so yous be in mourning whike that occurred. Despite knowing 2 posts up they werw rezed fine
Could stilk have yourself a moment of why god! Though, if he requirea and in game goal for your char, commune with your god while the others play withoutbya.

Yeah, its frustrating when no one listens well when youve got something important to ya. I think break is best bet, and just enjoy non rp time

The Exchange

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You have a boyfriend who lashes out at you yelling when you question a ruling that has just been brought up, didn't enjoy the game as a player, is power-tripping as a DM and refuses to even discuss his rulings in a co-op game.

Lose him as a DM. Lose him as a player. Lose him as a boyfriend. You seem to make excuses for him yelling, disrespectfulness and rudeness towards you and that isn't giving you equal footing in this relationship. 10 years from now you will be saying when someone asks how you broke your arm "I shouldn't have made him mad, it's my fault for pushing his buttons".

Run. Don't look back. A creative gamer chick is a good thing to find and all women should be treated with respect in all situations.


Simon Legrande wrote:
Maybe he's only doing that because you're always on his case about the rules. Maybe it's time to set the book aside and try to enjoy the game. You know he's not going to kill you, why do you have to have your face in the book at all times? Maybe just let the game happen for a while.

Because lack of consistency sucks for some, and it makes it hard to enjoy the game. I am also sure this is not the first time something has happened. If she is on his case then he likely did something to cause that to happen, so maybe he can also stop randomly changing rules and admit when he is wrong. Obviously if he said he was giving them a discount he thought he was, but when it was pointed out that he was wrong he got upset. He could have just used raise dead and a restoration(s) instead, and found a way to even do it at half price if he really knew what the correct(by the book) price was.


Fake Healer wrote:

You have a boyfriend who lashes out at you yelling when you question a ruling that has just been brought up, didn't enjoy the game as a player, is power-tripping as a DM and refuses to even discuss his rulings in a co-op game.

Lose him as a DM. Lose him as a player. Lose him as a boyfriend. You seem to make excuses for him yelling, disrespectfulness and rudeness towards you and that isn't giving you equal footing in this relationship. 10 years from now you will be saying when someone asks how you broke your arm "I shouldn't have made him mad, it's my fault for pushing his buttons".

Run. Don't look back. A creative gamer chick is a good thing to find and all women should be treated with respect in all situations.

He has never harmed me physically, and our relationship os over 4 years old. Outside the GMing world he is a lot different. Not trying to make excuses here, just. He is kinda a hit and miss GM, this is one of the times he has made a miss, and he probably knows it so he is being extra defensive. It's not like in-your-face screaming, it's more like "G%! d~$mit, would you stop already? These are my rules, this is my game, STOP."

Edit:

wraithstrike wrote:
Simon Legrande wrote:
Maybe he's only doing that because you're always on his case about the rules. Maybe it's time to set the book aside and try to enjoy the game. You know he's not going to kill you, why do you have to have your face in the book at all times? Maybe just let the game happen for a while.
Because lack of consistency sucks for sum, and it makes it hard to enjoy the game. I am also sure this is not the first time something has happened. If she is on his case then he likely did something to cause that to happen, so maybe he can also stop randomly changing rules and admit when he is wrong. Obviously if he said he was giving them a discount he thought he was, but when it was pointed out that he was wrong he got upset. He could have just used raise dead and a restoration(s) instead, and found a way to even do it at half price if he really knew what the correct(by the book) price was.

He was looking at the book when he told us the prices... He knew perfectly well what it should have been but the idea that it should have cost more because that is what "MOST" GM's do, is firmly implanted in his head for some reason. Making him think it is the right thing to do.


silvermage wrote:
I just mentioned it to him to re read the haunt and he is flippin out mad hard.

See what I mean, Simon. Having run the adventure myself if the OP described it correctly I am 99% sure he did read it incorrectly however being a new GM I can understand how it happened.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Not fond of the death spirals that some groups enjoy. If you die, you either make a new character at a lower level, or sell important gear to bring back the dead character. Some DMs like to make resurrection a quest, which means more time being dead and not playing. All of which contributes to greater likelihood of death. That's something that should be discussed as a group. Death should be meaningful emotionally, it shouldn't be a punishment for going forward with the game.

Fake Healer wrote:
Run. Don't look back. A creative gamer is a good thing to find and all people should be treated with respect in all situations.

FTFY


wraithstrike wrote:
silvermage wrote:
I just mentioned it to him to re read the haunt and he is flippin out mad hard.
See what I mean, Simon. Having run the adventure myself if the OP described it correctly I am 99% sure he did read it incorrectly however being a new GM I can understand how it happened.

Yep, I'm pretty sure it's incorrect but I haven't read it myself so I don't know. I just know from what people have told me on here.


silvermage wrote:
darkwarriorkarg wrote:
silvermage wrote:
I just mentioned it to him to re read the haunt and he is flippin out mad hard.
You have bigger problems than an RPG.

He just said to our friend while I was in the other room, "I hate it when she does this, she always has to tell me I'm wrong when I literally can't be wrong."

Sigh....

The GM can be wrong if they misinterpret a rule. There is a difference between changing a rule, and not reading it correctly. I guess in his eyes a misreading = "new rule". Yeah, that is wrong.

edit: Sometimes your friends(also bf/gf) also don't make the best gaming partners.


OilHorse wrote:


If she tones down her faults of Rules Lawyering, and they as a group play through the pains, they will get to a better place, and this will be some of those moments they will look back on with better memories.

He can also change his GM'ing style. I am not saying either one is entirely innocent, but like I said it is hard to pick at a scab that you don't have.


silvermage wrote:
Fake Healer wrote:

You have a boyfriend who lashes out at you yelling when you question a ruling that has just been brought up, didn't enjoy the game as a player, is power-tripping as a DM and refuses to even discuss his rulings in a co-op game.

Lose him as a DM. Lose him as a player. Lose him as a boyfriend. You seem to make excuses for him yelling, disrespectfulness and rudeness towards you and that isn't giving you equal footing in this relationship. 10 years from now you will be saying when someone asks how you broke your arm "I shouldn't have made him mad, it's my fault for pushing his buttons".

Run. Don't look back. A creative gamer chick is a good thing to find and all women should be treated with respect in all situations.

He has never harmed me physically, and our relationship os over 4 years old. Outside the GMing world he is a lot different. Not trying to make excuses here, just. He is kinda a hit and miss GM, this is one of the times he has made a miss, and he probably knows it so he is being extra defensive. It's not like in-your-face screaming, it's more like "G*% d$#mit, would you stop already? These are my rules, this is my game, STOP."

Edit:

wraithstrike wrote:
Simon Legrande wrote:
Maybe he's only doing that because you're always on his case about the rules. Maybe it's time to set the book aside and try to enjoy the game. You know he's not going to kill you, why do you have to have your face in the book at all times? Maybe just let the game happen for a while.
Because lack of consistency sucks for sum, and it makes it hard to enjoy the game. I am also sure this is not the first time something has happened. If she is on his case then he likely did something to cause that to happen, so maybe he can also stop randomly changing rules and admit when he is wrong. Obviously if he said he was giving them a discount he thought he was, but when it was pointed out that he was wrong he got upset. He could have just used raise dead and a
...

ok.. Thanks for the clear up, and I agree you should maybe not game with them for at least a session or two. f you do get wifi at some point try gaming online. roll20.net is a nice place to find games.

Everything else I would have said so far has already been said by others.

Dark Archive

silvermage wrote:
It's Rise of the Runelords, not a homebrew. I guess I wasn't very clear on that. But yeah, ultimately I think you're right. He has the right to do whatever he wants...we just have to deal with it for, forever. Especially me since he's my BF. He's the only person we know who can GM in the same schedule as everyone else, and also hates being a PC. We're already talking about doing Skulls an Shackles after RotR. //deep sigh.

I would not be too pleased with this GM. I am often the GM in our games (used to be all the time), and over the years I have come to the conclusion that I get very upset with a GM who adds houserules in secret or after the fact. I am sorry your situation is more complicated since he is your Boyfriend.

Either they should be public and up front, and you can build your character knowing they are there, or they need to be made known before the session. If the GM is houseruling something about a class spell or ability, it needs to be before the character is built, or he needs to allow the player to respec/build a whole new character at the same power level.

The most common offender of this is removing the WBL balance or changing magic item accessibility for instance. If that's something you want to do (it's a bad idea IMO) fine, but I need to know that before I build a character, because I want to know in advance that you'll be nerfing fighters, rogues, barbarians, etc, when I am choosing what class to play (so I know that at your table I only play Tier 1 spellcasters, because I won't have any fun playing anything Tier 3 or lower and constantly getting screwed over by the lack of equipment).

I've had this kind of complaint with a few GM's I gamed with in the past. IMO yes he can change the rules of the game; But you should be allowed to know the rules of the game in advance.

I should say, I don't necessarily disagree with your GM making resurrections be more costly; I've run games where that spell didn't exist before. However, as others have mentioned, Pathfinder is supposed to be fun, and these kinds of unpleasant surprises seriously get in the way of that. Hopefully he's willing to be more open and communicative about the houserules he wants to run with in advance, so this sort of thing doesn't happen with you in the future. I imagine you're not the only one frustrated by this.

I do remember being a new GM though, figuring out what works and what doesn't can take a bit, particularly if your first experience gaming is as the GM. My first players abandoned their quest as heroes to run a crime syndicate they started using funds they made from drug trafficking and rigging the D&D equivalent of dog-fights.


I have used roll20 at someone else's house, whose GM style is computers. Hahaha. Also I don't rules lawyer there because they are veterans of this game and I trust their combined knowledge. It's not full of this stress I get from playing with the BF. Maybe I do just need to stop playing...but I'd be sad cuz I want to finish the games I am playing with him right now, and then he'd probably not have as much time for me because he'd have to choose between pathfinder and girlfriend...

Also I just play every chance I get because I love this game a lot :T


Darkholme wrote:
silvermage wrote:
It's Rise of the Runelords, not a homebrew. I guess I wasn't very clear on that. But yeah, ultimately I think you're right. He has the right to do whatever he wants...we just have to deal with it for, forever. Especially me since he's my BF. He's the only person we know who can GM in the same schedule as everyone else, and also hates being a PC. We're already talking about doing Skulls an Shackles after RotR. //deep sigh.

I would not be too pleased with this GM. I am often the GM in our games (used to be all the time), and over the years I have come to the conclusion that I get very upset with a GM who adds houserules in secret or after the fact. I am sorry your situation is more complicated since he is your Boyfriend.

Either they should be public and up front, and you can build your character knowing they are there, or they need to be made known before the session. If the GM is houseruling something about a class spell or ability, it needs to be before the character is built, or he needs to allow the player to respec/build a whole new character at the same power level.

The most common offender of this is removing the WBL balance or changing magic item accessibility for instance. If that's something you want to do (it's a bad idea IMO) fine, but I need to know that before I build a character, because I want to know in advance that you'll be nerfing fighters, rogues, barbarians, etc, when I am choosing what class to play (so I know that at your table I only play Tier 1 spellcasters, because I won't have any fun playing anything Tier 3 or lower and constantly getting screwed over by the lack of equipment).

I've had this kind of complaint with a few GM's I gamed with in the past. IMO yes he can change the rules of the game; But you should be allowed to know the rules of the game in advance.

I should say, I don't necessarily disagree with your GM making resurrections be more costly; I've run games where that spell didn't exist before. However, as others have mentioned,...

Your first players sound awful haha. Unless you had fun with that?

I guess this means I should break the news to the rest of the people in our group... But I want to give him a chance to do it himself next session, so he doesn't get angry at everyone "ganging up on him." I will try again another day, we have until next Friday before our next game.

Edit: I was considering just not telling them about exactly how dicked over we got. It might ruin the game experience for them, and it's hit or miss. They'll either be mad at him for dicking us over, or mad at me for being a rules lawyer. Either way, he'll be upset.

Basically, PC/ my group's perspective: Paladin tried to stop Sorcerer child from Coup de Grace, sorcerer punched with a spell and killed self anyway. Horrified, we ran around the town begging for good prices on our possessions and asking people for donations. Finally had 15,000gp, and bought back our friend's soul...but now have no money to buy much-needed items and armor. Paladin doesn't care, gonna take a few days off and hug little child sorcerer and help her catch a bunny. Thankful to have child back, praise be to Desna.

My perspective: We just got robbed blind. How does he even benefit from taking our gold? If we don't progress, he will get bored and so will we. We may all die now anyway and have no continuity in our story whatsoever since bringing back the dead costs 15,000 for a basically a simple Raise Dead still with one permanent real negative level.

I'm pretty upset, but they don't need to be....


silvermage wrote:

I have used roll20 at someone else's house, whose GM style is computers. Hahaha. Also I don't rules lawyer there because they are veterans of this game and I trust their combined knowledge. It's not full of this stress I get from playing with the BF. Maybe I do just need to stop playing...but I'd be sad cuz I want to finish the games I am playing with him right now, and then he'd probably not have as much time for me because he'd have to choose between pathfinder and girlfriend...

Also I just play every chance I get because I love this game a lot :T

IF possible you can hang out without playing, but he might get upset. Of course he will also likely be upset that your playstyle and his don't match up. Oh well I guess you can see how it goes, but I do think you need to step away from his table.


wraithstrike wrote:
silvermage wrote:

I have used roll20 at someone else's house, whose GM style is computers. Hahaha. Also I don't rules lawyer there because they are veterans of this game and I trust their combined knowledge. It's not full of this stress I get from playing with the BF. Maybe I do just need to stop playing...but I'd be sad cuz I want to finish the games I am playing with him right now, and then he'd probably not have as much time for me because he'd have to choose between pathfinder and girlfriend...

Also I just play every chance I get because I love this game a lot :T

IF possible you can hang out without playing, but he might get upset. Of course he will also likely be upset that your playstyle and his don't match up. Oh well I guess you can see how it goes, but I do think you need to step away from his table.

I sent him a text saying, "Hey I would like to speak civilly with you about Rise without getting my head bit off. And without biting off yours. Can we manage that sometime please? If not, I will need to step away from you as a GM."

I'm like on the verge of tears lol. I really don't want to stop playing. I love this game so much. In AP art in 12th grade, I made miniatures out of sculpey for this game. That s##+ took hours. This is a really big part of my life. I don't want to have my main campaigns just taken from me because I can't get along with his BS rulings...

I have half a mind to say f*ck it, rules don't matter, let's not use rules any more. But then I know he will continue doing annoying BS like this and it bothers me so much.

Also it's 3:39AM here....

Shadow Lodge

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Let me offer an alternate solution. Just because you and he arent a good fit for RPGs together, that doesn't mean that either of you has to quit playing them. Just that of would probably be better if you didn't play them together. If someone else is willing to be a GM, then you could play with the group, minus your boyfriend; while he continues his game with the group minus you.


Kthulhu wrote:
Let me offer an alternate solution. Just because you and he arent a good fit for RPGs together, that doesn't mean that either of you has to quit playing them. Just that of would probably be better if you didn't play them together. If someone else is willing to be a GM, then you could play with the group, minus your boyfriend; while he continues his game with the group minus you.

Unfortunately, he is the only one who owns the adventure path, and also my other group members wouldn't meet up two days a week just for me. I feel like none of them like me that much anyway. One always tells me to stop looking up rules even when it's for our benefit...The other is his GF and she says I am game thirsty and is super passive, which is probably why her bf thinks he can boss me around too. The other guy in the group owns the house we game in and he doesn't seem to mind me, but he GM'd once for the other two and sent a DC 20 monster after them on first level.......... >_____>;;


silvermage wrote:


I sent him a text saying, "Hey I would like to speak civilly with you about Rise without getting my head bit off. And without biting off yours. Can we manage that sometime please? If not, I will need to step away from you as a GM."

I'm like on the verge of tears lol. I really don't want to stop playing. I love this game so much. In AP art in 12th grade, I made miniatures out of sculpey for this game. That s%@@ took hours. This is a really big part of my life. I don't want to have my main campaigns just taken from me because I can't get along with his BS rulings...

I have half a mind to say f*ck it, rules don't matter, let's not use rules any more. But then I know he will continue doing annoying BS like this and it bothers me so much.

Also it's 3:39AM here....

Same time here, and I almost thought AP meant "adventure path", but only for about a second. I think playing will cause more grief than not playing. It sucks. I had to stop gaming for over a year, twice, because I could not find compatible people.

Will you have wifi when you go back to college? I have never been to university so I don't know how difficult it is to get wifi in your dorm room, assuming you stay in a dorm. Yeah, I am going back to the roll20.net idea.


wraithstrike wrote:
silvermage wrote:


I sent him a text saying, "Hey I would like to speak civilly with you about Rise without getting my head bit off. And without biting off yours. Can we manage that sometime please? If not, I will need to step away from you as a GM."

I'm like on the verge of tears lol. I really don't want to stop playing. I love this game so much. In AP art in 12th grade, I made miniatures out of sculpey for this game. That s%@@ took hours. This is a really big part of my life. I don't want to have my main campaigns just taken from me because I can't get along with his BS rulings...

I have half a mind to say f*ck it, rules don't matter, let's not use rules any more. But then I know he will continue doing annoying BS like this and it bothers me so much.

Also it's 3:39AM here....

Same time here, and I almost thought AP meant "adventure path", but only for about a second. I think playing will cause more grief than not playing. It sucks. I had to stop gaming for over a year, twice, because I could not find compatible people.

Will you have wifi when you go back to college? I have never been to university so I don't know how difficult it is to get wifi in your dorm room, assuming you stay in a dorm. Yeah, I am going back to the roll20.net idea.

Haaa so unfortunately I also live at home and commute to college... And our whole group goes to the same school, and we will be gaming after school once a week during the school year...

Basically, my options are:
1. Quit ruleslawyering altogether. Give in to his god complex. Don't care about my character or the other characters. Play by his rules. See if anyone else starts double checking him maybe...
2. Quit the game.
3. Try to talk to him, get him to fess up to what he did, and give us our gold back. Have him do his actual job and look up the rules when he needs to... Lol notgonnahappen.

Sovereign Court

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Frankly if it is causing such an emotional stress, just quit and look up for a group. You'll be surprised, just post an ad on campus and definitely sure someone will reply.


I know you want to play RotRL, but you may have to play with another group, and hope one of them picks it(RotRL) up later on, assuming there are other groups in your town. If you are not having fun then you are not having fun.

PS: If you go with option 1 your lack of interest may be obvious, and that may also lead to arguments.

Sovereign Court

play-by-post games on this forum are great: try one of those if you want a new rpg outlet.


Firstly i want to say that it's nothing wrong with changing the written adventure path, a bit, in order to make it better, misreading it and then refusing to aknowledge that you are fallible however is wrong.

Now i have to ask this, what do you mean by full level loss?
Are we talking undoing everything you did the last time you leveled up for each negative level here? because in PF a negative level gives you -1 to attack rolls, -1 to saves, -1 to CMB, -1 to CMD, -1 to skill checks, -5 hit points and some other (usually) minor things.

My advice contines to be leave him and find yourself another group to play with but if you want i have another solution:
Everybody has house rules, there is nothing wrong with that, i myself have about an A4 page long of them (btw i should remind myself to update them, it's been more than 6 months since the last time i updated them), so ask him to give a list of all the changes he wants in the rules of the game so you can better play in his game.


Wow I suddenly felt really old. Anyways Silver, from some of your posts you might have a issue with rule lawyering (especially since another player has noticed) Don't get me wrong I'm a rule lawyer-type but you need to pick your battles. If you are hitting the GM on small issues and then a big issue I could see him losing his cool. While he is in the wrong if you are constantly challenging him, it gets lost. Sorry it is early and I'm trying to be coherent. If some of these texts you sent are verbatim I would probably say things a tad differently. Also since you are his girlfriend he is gonna be a bit more critical of what you say vs what others are saying (it's in the fine print)

He obviously did make some big mistakes, but in the end it's a game. If you take things too seriously this could effect your out of game relationship, so tread wisely. Personally from his reactions you posted he does have some issues to deal with. You can leave the group but it might hurt his feelings. Again we only know one view of the issue.


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This guy is not a good GM. he is advisarial with his players, more interested in being right than having fun, and perfectly willing to screw them over just to make a point. I would leave his game without a moments hesitation.

This guy is also a horrible, HORRIBLE boyfriend. Silver, his attitude towards you and your 'rules lawyering' is not your fault at all. It's him. He is more interested in controlling you and your fellow players than playing with you, and his behavior towards you OUT of the game, getting mad, making you cry, blaming you, that IS emotional abuse. That feeling of dread you have, the one where you fear he will find this thread and get mad at you over it? That's not going to get better. It's not going to go away. Do you want to live with this dread for the rest of your life? Because as long as you are with him, you will. It's only going to get worse.

Drop him as a DM. Drop him as a boyfriend. Drop him like a bad habit.

There are other games, other GMs, and much, MUCH better boyfriends.


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silvermage wrote:

Haaa so unfortunately I also live at home and commute to college... And our whole group goes to the same school, and we will be gaming after school once a week during the school year...

Basically, my options are:
1. Quit ruleslawyering altogether. Give in to his god complex. Don't care about my character or the other characters. Play by his rules. See if anyone else starts double checking him maybe...
2. Quit the game.
3. Try to talk to him, get him to fess up to what he did, and give us our gold back. Have him do his actual job and look up the rules when he needs to... Lol notgonnahappen.

I think there are several things at work here that I am not sure I have seen touched on. First off is the effect your personal relationship can have on this sort of situation.

Gaming in a home game is personal. I joked with a person that is currently joining my gaming group that our introduction meeting (we game in our homes so if someone joins we meet them elsewhere first) was like a date. Because it very much is. You will be sharing something that matters to everyone, committing time, probably money and definately emotional energy to a joint activity. That is a relationship.

You already have a (I assume) good relationship with this person in a different context. And often that fact can obscure or divert the nature of the gaming relationship. I have gamed with significant others before. Sometimes it has gone well, other times it has not. If we have different play styles (and you and your dm do have different style preferences) there is an extra bit of friction there because you are already close. You have the power to intimiately affect your boyfriend, he has the power to affect you, thats how intimate relationships work. That power is a wonderful thing, you can bring happiness to eachother like no one else can. But when negative feelings come in, they are already under all the defenses we normally have.

If a random person at a random table in a convention called you are ruleslawyer, you could get up, leave, never see that person again. If a random player at a random table questioned the gm's rulings he wouldnt care either. But thats not what is going on. This is personal. You care for eachother (I assume) a lot. So that challenge, that criticism matters, alot more, and it means more. It hurts more.

Thats perfectly normal. And the truth is, so is how you both feel.

You are both incorrectly categorizing eachother. There is a difference in playstyle here.

Many groups, heck whole game systems exist where the rules really are subject to gm whim. Technically, the gm does have the right to change any rule any time to suit the narrative he wants to tell. He may very well have not 'made a mistake' but intentionally changed a rule, or even if he was mistaken, the mistake skewed towards the narrative he wanted. This sort of playstyle supports the story above all else and is primarily there to enforce GM agency. To ensure the gm has the ability to shape the story as he envisioned. That is perfectly ok, and a legitimate stlye of play. Often the rules as written can intefere with a well crafted story, or at times intefere with play. Many gms out there will do this sort of thing. Its not necessarily about spite, or antagonism with the players. Sometimes it is, sometimes its not. Assuming the gm is a mature and kind person (seems you have that opinion of him) he isnt trying to spite you. He just wants the option to change the rules as he see's fit to fit his story.

This style however is not YOUR style of play.

You seem closer to my own style. I like to know what the rules are, so I can make informed choices. Even if a gm wants to create houserules, I am fine with that so long as they arent on the fly, and are consistent. That style of play supports player agency. It gives the players more power to influence the story and the narrative as a whole, because the gm cannot and willnot make on the fly changes to control the shape of the narrative. The most important part of the story is not the world, its what the players choose. That is player agency. And again, its a perfectly acceptable style of play.

This is not however, HIS style of play.

You sayin he has a God complex, or he calling you a rules lawyer, is not going to help the situation. Both of you need to sit down and understand eachother's point of view. Its possible a compromise can be reached, its also possible it cant be. Not all couples do everything together. Maybe you need to game seperately.

Pull back from the situation. DONT ask him again about this specific instance. Ask him about his desires for the game. Ask him about why he is so adament about never being 'wrong'. Explain your own point of view, and how you think your two gaming styles, and emphasis on gm agency vs player agency are clashing. Ask him what his thoughts (IN GENERAL) are. Other then getting mad at eachother instead of communicating, neither of you did anything wrong here. Even if you both think the other did do something wrong. Dont use words like 'god complex', 'giving in', 'fess up' or 'actual job'. This is not a court case. This is your boyfriend, and you hopefully sharing a fun social event.

Say something like 'I like to know what the rules are ahead of time because it makes me feel empowered to make good choices. What are your thoughts on the nature of the game rules and their consistency? I think maybe you prefer to have the option to change them as needed to fit the story, is that right?' I think you both have strong opinions on 'the right way' to play. And the truth is, there isnt one. Start a conversation in an attempt to try and understand both of those views.

Dark Archive

silvermage wrote:
Under A Bleeding Sun wrote:
Online PFS play is awesome! You could see a lot of different GM styles (not all of them good mind you) and people who play by RAW(for the most part). Plus there's always games going on so its easy to fit into almost any schedule.
Another sad thing? I don't have wifi at my home, I have to use my iPhone to do anything...for example, typing out all of these messages. So if PFS is skypeable or otherwise phone-friendly then maybe that could work. I don't know how to convince HIM to join though ahaha... It would maybe provide an alternative for me from his GMing though.

If you can post on these forums, you can partake in online games, such as PFS (Pathfinder Society). On these very forums, in fact. Follow this link to the Online Campaign Recruitment sub-forum, and find a PbP (Play by Post) game that fits your timetable and taste.

Rules Lawyering:
So, if I'm reading your situation right, one of your 5th level PC's (Player Character's), a cute, childlike Tiefling Sorcerer, for whom your Aasimar Paladin was caretaker, died. She died, effectively, via DM (Dungeon Master) fiat, as the events which led to her death did not transpire in line with the RAW (Rules As Written) of the AP (Adventure Path) in question, namely RotRL (Rise of the Runelords). By RAW, the character affected by the haunt attempts to commit suicide. If anyone interrupts the attempt, the haunted character gets an auto-crit against the interrupter. If no one interrupts, the haunted performs a coup de grâce attempt on themselves. In your scenario, the haunted was interrupted by your character, had the auto-crit hit your character, and still performed the coup de grâce attempt, successfully killing themselves.

In order to restore the character to life, the local church charged your group 15,000gp and brought the character back to life, with one permanent, irreversible negative level. However, by the sounds of your further posts, you do not mean they have a permanent negative level, but that they were brought back to life at level 4, having permanently lost one level and the XP (experience points) associated with it. Further, your group was gifted 2,500gp by NPC's (non-player characters) in the town, reducing the effective cost to your group to 12,500gp. In order to afford this, the group had to contribute all of their current liquid gold, and auction off a selection of equipment that the party owned, including a stock of CLW (cure light wounds) scrolls and a Ring of Force Shield owned by the deceased Sorceress.

Meanwhile, per RAW, there are 4 (?) spells commonly available to return a deceased character to life. Reincarnate, Raise Dead, Resurrection, and True Resurrection. Reincarnate requires 1,000gp in material components and results in 2 permanent negative levels. It also returns the deceased to a young adult body of a random race, and that may have had interesting, but undesired, roleplaying results. Raise Dead requires 5,000gp in material components and results in 2 permanent negative levels. Resurrection requires 10,000gp in material components and results in 1 permanent negative level. True Resurrection costs 25,000gp in material components and results in no negative levels. Restoration is used to remove permanent negative levels, and costs 1,000gp in material components per permanent negative level removed. Spell-casting services cost "Caster Level * Spell Level * 30gp". Therefore, in order to return from death to full form, the following routes are available ;

  • A. Reincarnate costs 1,000gp in material components, 840gp in spell-casting services (Druid Level 7 * Spell Level 4 * 30gp) and 3,680gp in Restorations, resulting in a total cost of 5,520gp.
  • B. Raise Dead costs 5,000gp in material components, 1,350gp in spell-casting services (Cleric Level 9 * Spell Level 5 * 30gp) and 3,680gp in Restorations, resulting in a total cost of 10,030gp.
  • C. Resurrection costs 10,000gp in material components, 2,730gp in spell-casting services (Cleric Level 13 * Spell Level 7 * 30gp) and 1,840gp in Restorations, resulting in a total cost of 14,570gp.
  • D. True Resurrection costs 25,000gp in material components and 4,590gp in spell-casting services (Cleric Level 17 * Spell Level 9 * 30gp) resulting in a total cost of 29,590gp.
  • Note : Restoration costs 1,000gp in material components per negative level and 840gp in spell-casting services (Cleric Level 7 * Spell Level 4 * 30gp) for a total cost of 1,840gp.

By what I can discern from your description of events, the DM has told you that the 15,000gp was for the spell Resurrection. Per the above, Resurrection should have cost the party 12,730gp directly, with a further 1,840gp to remove the permanent level loss. While the actual cost to the party of 12,500gp (with the gold received from the NPC's) was a slight discount to the party, 230gp, the ruling that the permanent level loss is irreversible is significant. As mentioned by another earlier, this kind of ruling can lead to a "death cycle". That PC is now weaker than expected, and hence more likely to die again. Further, due to a weakened party member and having to sell a significant amount of party equipment, the party as a whole is now weaker, meaning all of the party members are more likely to die in a situation aimed at a party at full strength. If such a ruling stands going forward, the problem will only become worse, and each death makes further deaths more and more likely. The only way this strategy works is if the DM consciously weakens the encounters to reflect the fact that the party strength has lessened, which if he is following an AP, he may not have the flexibility to do.

Is the above summary accurate? Apologies for the wall of text, and if my style comes off as condescending or nitpicky, I just wish for full clarity of events.


Edit: YES your summary was spot-on, all except for the negative level bit. We leveled up after she died, so everyone else went to level 6, and when we brought her back, he told her that she had just enough XP to be level 5. Just so she didn't have to change anything on her character sheet and go back down to level 4, which is probably what he would have preferred, but he was "being lenient."

He just responded to me suggesting that I leave his RotRl game.
"I think the problem comes from me just being a loose gm, i pretty often change prices on the fly, cause i dont think the CRB prices are high enough for some things. Also, i dont feel like my choices as GM are being respected. I always have to fight with you when you rules laywer me, when pathfinder isnt a competitive game. You never do that to any other gm, im sure. And it makes me really sad, cause i wanted pathfinder to be our thing, that we can take casually, but you clearly take it more seriously than that. And you clearly prefer other games. So honestly, i cant stop you from leaving my campaigns, even if i want you to stay."

To which I responded:
"Well I fight you on things because you change them to suit yourself and don't realize the impact it will have on the entire adventure...
For example, yes we spent 15,000gp. That is redic and should have bought back the negative level. It should have been a Raise Dead with two Restorations. You could at least make up for it by not forcing her character to become weaker; also, Paizo's rules on losing a level are not "you literally lose an entire level." It's supposed to be able to be bought back. And using your price guide of DOUBLE THE PRICE, which btw will make it really impossible for anyone else to ever get brought back now and will ruin your story continuity because everyone will probably die at some point...ahem. Your double the price. Which is really harsh. Would be raise dead: 10,000. Restorations: 2,000 each. Total: 14,000. But then she gains back all levels lost and levels up... i really can't explain all of this in a text.
Like, that's not taking into account that you won't even re read the haunt and scream at my face for even suggesting you made a mistake. You're a new GM. It happens. And you can tell me "I don't run the core rulebook, it's MY GAME, I'm YOUR GOD, so shut the f!+@ up," but then I'll probably cry and never play with you again. You have been really mean to me over pathfinder lately... And while I think that you seem to think my "rules lawyering" is me trying to be mean, I am just trying to play it fairly. You, again, don't seem to see the impact that even small changes will snowball into later in the game. Also, you don't tell anyone ahead of time that you are making these changes, which really is common courtesy: we should have known that having you as a GM would mean double the price on Bring Back magic, and various other things, because having a nasty surprise like this (also you lied to my face about the price and that hurt me) is exactly what makes me want to rules lawyer. I don't WANT the whole party to die, but if I just always let you have your way, you rarely do more than skim the rules for a spell or effect and the party WILL end up dead. And then? That's the end of the adventure. Realistically. Sure we can roll new characters but there will be no motivation for them to pick up where our guys left off. "

He's a skimmer so I will have to actually repeat all of this in person later today.. Lol, men wonder why women talk so much; it is because we have to repeat everything we say for them to hear us. C'x Lol...


silvermage wrote:

Edit: YES your summary was spot-on, all except for the negative level bit. We leveled up after she died, so everyone else went to level 6, and when we brought her back, he told her that she had just enough XP to be level 5. Just so she didn't have to change anything on her character sheet and go back down to level 4, which is probably what he would have preferred, but he was "being lenient."

He just responded to me suggesting that I leave his RotRl game.
"I think the problem comes from me just being a loose gm, i pretty often change prices on the fly, cause i dont think the CRB prices are high enough for some things. Also, i dont feel like my choices as GM are being respected. I always have to fight with you when you rules laywer me, when pathfinder isnt a competitive game. You never do that to any other gm, im sure. And it makes me really sad, cause i wanted pathfinder to be our thing, that we can take casually, but you clearly take it more seriously than that. And you clearly prefer other games. So honestly, i cant stop you from leaving my campaigns, even if i want you to stay."

To which I responded:
"Well I fight you on things because you change them to suit yourself and don't realize the impact it will have on the entire adventure...
For example, yes we spent 15,000gp. That is redic and should have bought back the negative level. It should have been a Raise Dead with two Restorations. You could at least make up for it by not forcing her character to become weaker; also, Paizo's rules on losing a level are not "you literally lose an entire level." It's supposed to be able to be bought back. And using your price guide of DOUBLE THE PRICE, which btw will make it really impossible for anyone else to ever get brought back now and will ruin your story continuity because everyone will probably die at some point...ahem. Your double the price. Which is really harsh. Would be raise dead: 10,000. Restorations: 2,000 each. Total: 14,000. But then she gains back all levels lost and levels up... i really can't...

You are being really acusatory here when he was trying to be open and voice his views. I realize you are probably upset, but you need to take a deep breath and a step back. There isnt a right and wrong here. Understand that your view is not the only view, and that what is 'harsh' or 'unfair' in a game like pathfinder is entirely subjective. There is no objective truth here.

Believe me, I completely understand your views here. I get the whole concern about things snowballing, and about wanting to know what changes are made ahead of time. But that is a PLAYSTYLE. It really is. There are groups out there that enjoy the style of play your boyfriend seems to favor. He isnt being a jerk here. Its a different preference. Not everyone thinks about or even cares about the kind of reprecutions you are worried about.

If he talks to you about this again, stop using the word You. Never start a sentance with you. Talk about how you feel, talk about your views. "I think its important to know what the rules are ahead of time, I think its important to ensure balance in level and wealth among the players and among the wealth by level assumptions pathfinder makes. I am concerned that a player that is lower level will end up struggling even more later on, possibly dying again. Especially since pathfinder has no 'catchup' mechanic like 3.5 did where lower level characters get additional xp. What do you think?'

When you start sentances with You do this, or You dont do that, you automatically put him on the defensive, and reduce the chances of a productive conversation.


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'Sani wrote:

Drop him as a DM. Drop him as a boyfriend. Drop him like a bad habit.

There are other games, other GMs, and much, MUCH better boyfriends.

I think we, being a bunch of nerds on a RPG forum, have neither the required situational information nor qualifications to tell someone to make an important life choice regarding a partner of four years.

And I suggest we, as a collective, stop saying "dump him," because we know almost nothing about any of his behaviors that don't relate to this game. Regarding DM/player problems, sure we can talk. Relationship advice? That's overstepping our mandate.


'Sani wrote:


Drop him as a DM. Drop him as a boyfriend. Drop him like a bad habit.

There are other games, other GMs, and much, MUCH better boyfriends.

Seriously? This is your advice? After reading some posts on a message board? Seriously? I would be very careful to give that sort of advice to a friend I knew well, and interacted with in person regularly with regards to a relationship that has lasted 4 years. You know absolutely nothing about thier actual relationship and only know part of the story about this gaming situation. Think before you speak. Possibly, think and then dont speak.


silvermage wrote:
But yeah, he basically said "No re-gaining or buying back the permanent level loss." Which is why we resorted to resurrection, so she wouldn't be like level 3 and the rest of us at Lvl 6...He ALSO said we only had until the body was rotten to resurrect her...but the rules say 10 years. I feel like he just kinda BS'd the ruling on this.

There is no such thing as "level loss" in Pathfinder. You GAIN a negative level "For each negative level a creature has, it takes a cumulative –1 penalty on all ability checks, attack rolls, combat maneuver checks, Combat Maneuver Defense, saving throws, and skill checks. In addition, the creature reduces its current and total hit points by 5 for each negative level it possesses. The creature is also treated as one level lower for the purpose of level-dependent variables (such as spellcasting) for each negative level possessed. Spellcasters do not lose any prepared spells or slots as a result of negative levels. If a creature's negative levels equal or exceed its total Hit Dice, it dies.

A creature with temporary negative levels receives a new saving throw to remove the negative level each day. The DC of this save is the same as the effect that caused the negative levels.

Some abilities and spells (such as raise dead) bestow permanent level drain on a creature. These are treated just like temporary negative levels, but they do not allow a new save each day to remove them. Level drain can be removed through spells like restoration. "

Even with all that- just a Restoration spell and you're back.


Kolokotroni wrote:
silvermage wrote:

Edit: YES your summary was spot-on, all except for the negative level bit. We leveled up after she died, so everyone else went to level 6, and when we brought her back, he told her that she had just enough XP to be level 5. Just so she didn't have to change anything on her character sheet and go back down to level 4, which is probably what he would have preferred, but he was "being lenient."

If he talks to you about this again, stop using the word You. Never start a sentance with you. Talk about how you feel, talk about your views. "I think its important to know what the rules are ahead of time, I think its important to ensure balance in level and wealth among the players and among the wealth by level assumptions pathfinder makes. I am concerned that a player that is lower level will end up struggling even more later on, possibly dying again. Especially since pathfinder has no 'catchup' mechanic like 3.5 did where lower level characters get additional xp. What do you think?'

When you start sentances with You do this, or You dont do that, you automatically put him on the defensive, and reduce the chances of a productive conversation.

You are right. I actually forgot about that, maybe because I just woke up to his text and responded while still half asleep lol ... Probably should stop doing that. Maybe it is a good thing that I will have to repeat all of this to him later lol. I don't know how I forgot that. I'm a psychology major for the love of...

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