BigNorseWolf |
3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
This item is going to be problematic. Its basically an all day, no save daze attainable at mid level PFS. As daze doesn't come with any actual descriptors, I don't even know if anything would be immune to it.
per day, the wearer can spend a
standard action to purposely miss an
opponent, performing a dramatic feint
that causes that opponent to lose its Dexterity bonus to AC
until the wearer’s next turn. If a swashbuckler wearing the
cloak of feinting performs the superior feint deed or uses
this cape’s ability, the opponent is also dazed until the start
of the swashbuckler’s next turn.
Superior Feint (Ex): At 7th level, a swashbuckler with
at least 1 panache point can, as a standard action,
purposefully miss a creature she could make a melee
attack against with a wielded light or one-handed
piercing weapon. When she does, the creature is
denied its Dexterity bonus to AC until the start of the
swashbuckler’s next turn
Superior feint doesn't even use up a penache point. All you have to do is keep one in your pool (which is SOP anyway)> so swashbuckler moves up, declares a miss, and the big bad is auto dazed for the party to wale on. Every single time, no roll, no save.
cartmanbeck RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 |
Midnight_Angel |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
3/day limit probably isn't balancing enough.
Ah, but there is no 3/day limit.
If a swashbuckler wearing the cloak of feinting performs the superior feint deed or uses this cape’s ability, the opponent is also dazed until the start of the swashbuckler’s next turn.
Or uses the cape's ability. As opposed to, and uses the cape's ability.
Now, let's see how long it takes for someone to pipe up 'No Problem. Wizards still are better at killing things, so there's no change required'...
BigNorseWolf |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What's the price on this capse?
It just needs a little errata to be "and" instead of "or"
I'd be a little leery of it even then. You wear your cloak of resistance till you near the boss fight, switch it out, walk up and no save daze the big bad at the end of the dungeon for three rounds. Thats longer than most of them will last with no actions.
TetsujinOni |
Yeah, entirely broken in the hands of a swashbuckler. If the Swashbuckler version read "If a swashbuckler wearing the cloak of feinting performs the superior feint deed and uses one of this cape's charges..." instead, it'd be amazing but not banhammer land.
Sigh.
Treefolk |
Treefolk wrote:I'd be a little leery of it even then. You wear your cloak of resistance till you near the boss fight, switch it out, walk up and no save daze the big bad at the end of the dungeon for three rounds. Thats longer than most of them will last with no actions.What's the price on this capse?
It just needs a little errata to be "and" instead of "or"
But at that point it'd join a number of other things of equavliant power (of brokenness). This item just has the issue of no save, even of you made it a consumable (3/lifetime) it'd still show up. However this cape doesn't has nearly as much effect on a boss that isnt all by its lonesome or is within a standard move. I honestly having seen a feint build in ages so this might be a not so subtle bump to encourage players to build feinters.
trollbill Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne |
Finlanderboy |
Finlanderboy wrote:Fortunately there are not a lot of 7th level Swashbucklers out their yet.yes I agree. This is the first thing I noticed was broken in the book.
I even remarked in another thread of great items.
This should be banned. Please remvoe it before many people are effected.
exactly why they should ban it now.
If I built a level 7 swash I would take that skill in a heartbeat for that item. if they removed the item I would feel cheated I know have a deed I would never have taken had this item been banned all along.
Reynard de' Bonaire |
Finlanderboy wrote:Fortunately there are not a lot of 7th level Swashbucklers out their yet.yes I agree. This is the first thing I noticed was broken in the book.
I even remarked in another thread of great items.
This should be banned. Please remvoe it before many people are effected.
Some of us started in the playtest...
Finlanderboy |
What else can do a no save shutdown of the boss? I know some PCS have saves jacked so high that they may as well be no save, but theres still the dice gods to pray to in that case...
Also you have to spend a great deal of resources to do that. Plus I have no found a shutdown effect that someone is not immune to in someway.
The cape daze lock is a deed, 14k and your should slot.
trollbill Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne |
trollbill wrote:Some of us started in the playtest...Finlanderboy wrote:Fortunately there are not a lot of 7th level Swashbucklers out their yet.yes I agree. This is the first thing I noticed was broken in the book.
I even remarked in another thread of great items.
This should be banned. Please remvoe it before many people are effected.
That's why I said "not a lot" rather than "not any." Though I suppose you could have one otherwise if you were very dedicated and had been playing PFS continuously since GenCon started or had a 7th level amorphous GM credit baby.
David_Bross |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yes it needs to get banned. I noticed this and decided not to make a post about it based on my experience with pageant of the peacock from earlier this year.
I have a feeling much of the ACG rulings were put out initially with the idea that they needed to have it there for gencon. I think partial rebuilds for warpriests, and banning of certain things that need to be banned will be coming down the pipeline, or at least I hope they are.
CRobledo |
You know, thinking about this more, I think what was missed by editing in the ACG was not the "or"/"and" thing, but I bet you they missed a fort save. I bet it should have said:
"If a swashbuckler wearing the cloak of feinting performs the superior feint deed or uses this cape’s ability, the opponent is also dazed (Fort save DC 15 negates) until the start of the swashbuckler’s next turn."
Magic item save DCs are, more often than not, terrible.
cartmanbeck RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 |
Jeff Merola |
Jeff Merola wrote:So that makes, what, one Swashbuckler item that's overpowered and another that's completely useless?Which ones useless? The ambiguously written plume?
Yeah, the plume that, as written, requires you to spend a standard action to activate it while you're using a deed.
BigNorseWolf |
Yeah, the plume that, as written, requires you to spend a standard action to activate it while you're using a deed.
Well, I suppose as written you could activate the plume for say, opportune parry and riposte at 8 am, and then keep the panache in your pool until you wanted to use it.
SCPRedMage |
Let's keep in mind the fact that, in order to do this all day, you have to use Superior Feint, which means you have to do no damage (and no other attacks that turn, since it's a standard action).
Basically, in order to "stun lock" a single enemy, the swashbuckler has to stand there doing pretty much nothing else for the duration.
Yeah, it's definitely on the powerful side, but I don't see this as game-breakingly powerful, nor something I'd want to do that often on my own swashbuckler, as I don't particularly think standing there keeping an enemy occupied is the best use of my actions.
EDIT: Removed the bit about needing to hit them, as it seems the wording changed from the final playtest just enough to remove that requirement, without it being so obvious on a casual skimming for changes.
BigNorseWolf |
Let's keep in mind the fact that, in order to do this all day, you have to use Superior Feint, which means you have to hit them, and you have to do no damage (and no other attacks that turn, since it's a standard action).
You don't need to hit for superior fient. You just have to have an opponent you COULD hit. A ghost would be immune if you didn't have a magic weapon, but other than that there's no defense. It says a creature you COULD hit. Not a creature you HAVE hit, and not a creature you could have hit but didn't with your last attack. The swashy moves up, standard action to flyn with his opponent and bam, dazed.
DrakeRoberts |
Let's keep in mind the fact that, in order to do this all day, you have to use Superior Feint, which means you have to hit them, and you have to do no damage (and no other attacks that turn, since it's a standard action).
Basically, in order to "stun lock" a single enemy, the swashbuckler has to stand there doing pretty much nothing else for the duration, and eventually it will fail (as a natural 1 is inevitable).
Yeah, it's definitely on the powerful side, but I don't see this as game-breakingly powerful, nor something I'd want to do that often on my own swashbuckler, as I don't particularly think standing there keeping an enemy occupied is the best use of my actions.
Against multiple bad guys, sacrificing your turn can be trouble, but if the fight is against a single baddy, then no matter how insanely powerful it may be, you can daze lock it while your allies pick it off (as long as you can get into melee range with it).
SCPRedMage |
James Wygle wrote:Let's keep in mind the fact that, in order to do this all day, you have to use Superior Feint, which means you have to hit them, and you have to do no damage (and no other attacks that turn, since it's a standard action).You don't need to hit for superior fient. You just have to have an opponent you COULD hit. A ghost would be immune if you didn't have a magic weapon, but other than that there's no defense. It says a creature you COULD hit. Not a creature you HAVE hit, and not a creature you could have hit but didn't with your last attack. The swashy moves up, standard action to flyn with his opponent and bam, stunned.
Yeah, I noticed that after I posted; the final playtest version said "purposely miss a creature that she could normally hit", which would indicate you needed to roll, but the wording changed just enough on the release version to remove that requirement.
Still, requiring the swashbuckler to stand there and do nothing else doesn't seem so horrifically game-breaking as to require an immediate ban-hammer, rather than waiting to see if this becomes an actual problem.
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
BigNorseWolf |
Still, requiring the swashbuckler to stand there and do nothing else doesn't seem so horrifically game-breaking as to require an immediate ban-hammer, rather than waiting to see if this becomes an actual problem.
Its devastating for any fight where there are more PCS than bad guys, which is just about all of the hard ones and all of the supposed to be climactic fights.
trollbill Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne |
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So, we're calling for a ban on something that's only "broken" when used in single-enemy combats? I thought we all knew better than to think that the ability to wreck a single-enemy combat was a red flag.
Just you wait, Krune! As soon as my Swashbuckler hits 7th, it's revenge time! You can buff yourself for another 10,000 years and it still won't do you any good.
trollbill Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne |