Netopalis RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32 |
Coraith Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Pullman |
Michael Brock Global Organized Play Coordinator |
Ferious Thune |
Joe M. wrote:BNW... I'll be sad if you get that banned too! :)BigNorseWolf wrote:What's this?FiddlersGreen wrote:There's also a Blue scarf for increasing your reach by 5 feet...GM Arkwright wrote:Do note that this combo can be used with a whip.Irori have mercy....
Inquiring minds want to know, what is this item you speak of?
If it's a neck or shoulder slot item, or something along those lines, I've got a Kapenia Dancer that could use one. It would save taking a Magus Arcana.
Also, good news about the cape being banned. Thanks Mike!
DrakeRoberts |
DrakeRoberts wrote:Joe M. wrote:BNW... I'll be sad if you get that banned too! :)BigNorseWolf wrote:What's this?FiddlersGreen wrote:There's also a Blue scarf for increasing your reach by 5 feet...GM Arkwright wrote:Do note that this combo can be used with a whip.Irori have mercy....Inquiring minds want to know, what is this item you speak of?
If it's a neck or shoulder slot item, or something along those lines, I've got a Kapenia Dancer that could use one. It would save taking a Magus Arcana.
Also, good news about the cape being banned. Thanks Mike!
Don't remember the name honestly. It's one of a collection of 4 2,500gp items that need to be held in your offhand.
BigNorseWolf |
Swordsmasters flare: Blue scarf Blue Scarf: The user can spend 1 panache point as a swift
action to increase her melee reach with light or one-handed
piercing weapons by 5 feet for 1 minute 2.5 k. Needs to be held in your off hand (so good news for people using a buckler or those dervish dancing saranites.)
Ferious Thune |
Swordsmasters flare: Blue scarf Blue Scarf: The user can spend 1 panache point as a swift
action to increase her melee reach with light or one-handed
piercing weapons by 5 feet for 1 minute 2.5 k. Needs to be held in your off hand (so good news for people using a buckler or those dervish dancing saranites.)
Ah. No good for my Magus, then. Looks like it's back to taking the elasticity arcana for me. Or maybe just a wand of Long Arm, since I'm planning on taking Wand Wielder anyway.
EDIT: Or both the Wand of Long Arm and the Elasticity arcana, since they seem to stack. One increases your reach, and one gives the weapon reach. It's a lot of trouble to get something a whip would give by default, but then with a whip, I'd need all the feats to do lethal damage and threaten, etc.
cartmanbeck RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16 |
Swordsmasters flare: Blue scarf Blue Scarf: The user can spend 1 panache point as a swift
action to increase her melee reach with light or one-handed
piercing weapons by 5 feet for 1 minute 2.5 k. Needs to be held in your off hand (so good news for people using a buckler or those dervish dancing saranites.)
At least this one requires a panache point. Not nearly as crazy as the cape of feinting.
BigNorseWolf |
BigNorseWolf wrote:At least this one requires a panache point. Not nearly as crazy as the cape of feinting.Swordsmasters flare: Blue scarf Blue Scarf: The user can spend 1 panache point as a swift
action to increase her melee reach with light or one-handed
piercing weapons by 5 feet for 1 minute 2.5 k. Needs to be held in your off hand (so good news for people using a buckler or those dervish dancing saranites.)
I think its perfect. The penache point/swift action is an actual cost for a swashy, and needing to hold it in your other hand is a real downside for anyone else. (Rules not quoted about flair: it works once per day under its own power. The scarf is so swishy it has its OWN penache point)
Ferious Thune |
BigNorseWolf wrote:Swordsmasters flare: Blue scarf Blue Scarf: The user can spend 1 panache point as a swift
action to increase her melee reach with light or one-handed
piercing weapons by 5 feet for 1 minute 2.5 k. Needs to be held in your off hand (so good news for people using a buckler or those dervish dancing saranites.)Ah. No good for my Magus, then. Looks like it's back to taking the elasticity arcana for me. Or maybe just a wand of Long Arm, since I'm planning on taking Wand Wielder anyway.
EDIT: Or both the Wand of Long Arm and the Elasticity arcana, since they seem to stack. One increases your reach, and one gives the weapon reach. It's a lot of trouble to get something a whip would give by default, but then with a whip, I'd need all the feats to do lethal damage and threaten, etc.
Or apparently I can just get a wand of Blade Lash, which is like a combination of True Strike and Long Arm in a single action for tripping.
Sorry, I'm still working my way through the book and keep discovering new options. I'm beginning to fear there's an even bigger power creep from this book than I thought. Classes like the Slayer and Arcanist on their own up the power level of Pathfinder. Add in some of these spells (throw Contingent Action and Contingent Scroll onto that list), and a lot of things that weren't possible before are suddenly very easy to obtain.
BigNorseWolf |
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I could be wrong in my assessment but doesn't having to get in melee with the enemy make this a lot less powerful item than people are going on about?
Yeah, mages have to deal with saves (boo hoo) but they can stun someone, and worse, from the other side of the battlefield.
Not really. There's no danger being next to someone thats stun locked.
Undone |
C Overton wrote:Not really. There's no danger being next to someone thats stun locked.I could be wrong in my assessment but doesn't having to get in melee with the enemy make this a lot less powerful item than people are going on about?
Yeah, mages have to deal with saves (boo hoo) but they can stun someone, and worse, from the other side of the battlefield.
Agreed. I'm all for making powerful PC's but this item is just poorly worded. It would be strong as 3/day but as "Every hit all day" it's a game breaker and I say that about very little.
Undone |
What I'm hearing is, "A swashbuckler stun locking the bbeg is more powerful, game breaking and fun destorying than the Paladin one shoting him."
Sorry. Makes no sense to me.
But, it's already been effectively banned, it seems. So that must be true. ...
The paladin can't do that to the neutral construct or creature.
The SB can do it to anything.That being said dazing spell (and L rod of dazing should be banned)
Acedio |
What I'm hearing is, "A swashbuckler stun locking the bbeg is more powerful, game breaking and fun destorying than the Paladin one shoting him."
Sorry. Makes no sense to me.
But, it's already been effectively banned, it seems. So that must be true. ...
So... just because there's already a build out there that can kill a bbeg in one hit, we should not take steps keep balance by keeping other over powered content out of the campaign?
That, I don't get.
Also, from a GM perspective, I find it much less fun when my bbeg gets stun/daze locked than when my bbeg gets nuked with a ton of damage. Just my 2 cents.
BigNorseWolf |
What I'm hearing is, "A swashbuckler stun locking the bbeg is more powerful, game breaking and fun destorying than the Paladin one shoting him."
Close. The swashbuckler ALWAYS stun locking something is more powerful, game breaking, and fun destroying than the paladin SOMETIMES one shoting something.
Even with a slumber hex happy witch I at least get to roll my giant shiny hematite d 20 once...
C Overton |
Strictly from my perspective, the swashbuckler stunning the big bad makes me turn to the rest of the party and say, "Let's get him, guys!" Because even a stun locked dragon needs a halbred shoved in his face.
The Paladin or mage trivializing the whole scenario is another player basically saying, "You kids sit down and let the adults talk this out." In other words, not fun.
As for my two cents on GMing, I'd rather make sure the players are having fun rolling dice.
Just my opinion.
kinevon |
Strictly from my perspective, the swashbuckler stunning the big bad makes me turn to the rest of the party and say, "Let's get him, guys!" Because even a stun locked dragon needs a halbred shoved in his face.
The Paladin or mage trivializing the whole scenario is another player basically saying, "You kids sit down and let the adults talk this out." In other words, not fun.
As for my two cents on GMing, I'd rather make sure the players are having fun rolling dice.
Just my opinion.
To be honest, once the BBEG is perma stun locked, unless he has minions, I would just end the encounter right there. "Okay, guys, since the BBEG is unable to act, you can just slice and dice him while the swashbuckler holds him in stasis. No need for any more die rolling for this encounter. Any day jobs?"
WalterGM RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8 |
JohnF Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West |
trollbill Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne |
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The swashbuckler ALWAYS stun locking something is more powerful, game breaking, and fun destroying than the paladin SOMETIMES one shoting something.
I wish you would quit saying Stun Lock. It isn't Stun Lock. It is Daze Lock. Which is actually worse in a lot of ways as I can think of several things that are immune to Stun, but nothing that is immune to Daze.
Undone |
BigNorseWolf wrote:The swashbuckler ALWAYS stun locking something is more powerful, game breaking, and fun destroying than the paladin SOMETIMES one shoting something.I wish you would quit saying Stun Lock. It isn't Stun Lock. It is Daze Lock. Which is actually worse in a lot of ways as I can think of several things that are immune to Stun, but nothing that is immune to Daze.
Freedom of movement is immune to daze! That's about it ._.
BigNorseWolf |
trollbill wrote:Freedom of movement is immune to daze! That's about it ._.BigNorseWolf wrote:The swashbuckler ALWAYS stun locking something is more powerful, game breaking, and fun destroying than the paladin SOMETIMES one shoting something.I wish you would quit saying Stun Lock. It isn't Stun Lock. It is Daze Lock. Which is actually worse in a lot of ways as I can think of several things that are immune to Stun, but nothing that is immune to Daze.
I don't think so. You can still move around when you're dazed (your ac doesn't even drop) you just can't go anywhere because you don't have any actions.
WalterGM RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8 |
Finlanderboy |
John Francis wrote:That's what I get for posting on my iPhone with autocorrect enabled. Smartphone my ass.
I do not believe that word means what you think it means ...(Did you mean 'profound', rather than 'prolific' ?)
The smart phone is trying make itself look smart by causing the owner to look dumb.
Jiggy RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 |
Undone |
I don't think so. You can still move around when you're dazed (your ac doesn't even drop) you just can't go anywhere because you don't have any actions.Undone wrote:trollbill wrote:Freedom of movement is immune to daze! That's about it ._.BigNorseWolf wrote:The swashbuckler ALWAYS stun locking something is more powerful, game breaking, and fun destroying than the paladin SOMETIMES one shoting something.I wish you would quit saying Stun Lock. It isn't Stun Lock. It is Daze Lock. Which is actually worse in a lot of ways as I can think of several things that are immune to Stun, but nothing that is immune to Daze.
I've always though of FOM as "If it impedes your move action you're immune" Which is a nice way to think of it without over powering the spell (Still not immune to nausea but are immune to daze)
Acedio |
FOM does not prevent Daze or Stun because those effects are not impeding your movement, they are impeding your ability to take certain actions. Same reason that FOM doesn't prevent unconsciousness or death, they're not movement impeding effects, they're action preventing ailments. Additionally, with the logic you presented, FOM should prevent Petrification, but it doesn't; that's covered by Freedom.
Consider paralysis. You can still take actions, but your movement is impeded. That's why you can take purely mental actions that don't require movement.
With daze and stun you don't even get the option to take the action.
Also, for PFS, Daze is not in the list of stuff that FOM prevents, so strict reading type GMs will not allow Daze in there anyway.
Acedio |
Kind of on the topic of BBEG's getting one shot, has anybody ever had their BBEG get one shot by something like a save or suck, but then let the players proceed with the fight without the save or sucks anyway at no risk or resource cost?
They've already successfully overcome the encounter, but letting them fight the BBEG "the normal way" and handwaving the resource cost of the encounter if there's time for it could be fun.
WalterGM RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8 |
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I offered that as a player once. During Haunting of Hinojai I won initiative and solo'd the boss with some janky combo. However, since everyone at the table found that kind of bland, we just handwaved my instawin victory and played it out.
Much to the horror and excitement of the rest of the party ;)
trollbill Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne |
trollbill wrote:
I wish you would quit saying Stun Lock. It isn't Stun Lock. It is Daze Lock. Which is actually worse in a lot of ways as I can think of several things that are immune to Stun, but nothing that is immune to Daze.
Three wishes and you're going to burn one on THAT!?
We all have our crosses to bear.
Fromper |
Kind of on the topic of BBEG's getting one shot, has anybody ever had their BBEG get one shot by something like a save or suck, but then let the players proceed with the fight without the save or sucks anyway at no risk or resource cost?
They've already successfully overcome the encounter, but letting them fight the BBEG "the normal way" and handwaving the resource cost of the encounter if there's time for it could be fun.
We did that in one of the first PFS sessions I ever played. It was an early season scenario that was pretty easy, subtier 1-2, and we had 7 players. We destroyed the BBEG in one or two hits, before he even went in initiative, so then we decided to keep going with the battle as if we were fighting the guy at subtier 4-5 instead.
Undone |
FOM does not prevent Daze or Stun because those effects are not impeding your movement, they are impeding your ability to take certain actions. Same reason that FOM doesn't prevent unconsciousness or death, they're not movement impeding effects, they're action preventing ailments. Additionally, with the logic you presented, FOM should prevent Petrification, but it doesn't; that's covered by Freedom.
Consider paralysis. You can still take actions, but your movement is impeded. That's why you can take purely mental actions that don't require movement.
With daze and stun you don't even get the option to take the action.
Also, for PFS, Daze is not in the list of stuff that FOM prevents, so strict reading type GMs will not allow Daze in there anyway.
I don't want to get into a long argument but
FOMThis spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.
The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, grant water breathing.
So anything that would prevent moving or attacking normally (Of which stunned and dazed are most definitely a part of) could be prevented by FOM unless the GM chooses to read it another way.
I'd actually prefer it to negate crowd control of all types from both sides of the table. That makes it so instead of having "Infinite boss buffs to negate specific conditions" I can slap FoM, mirror images, and some DR on him and he'll live at least a turn. It also prevents anticlimax's from needing house rules.
Acedio |
It says you can move and attack normally, but it says nothing about being able to take move actions or standard actions normally. Daze does not deny your ability to move or attack, it denies your ability to take actions. Paralysis prevents movement (and therefore attacking), but you can take move or standard actions that do not require movement (such as purely mental actions). Subtle difference.
Dazed: The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.
A victim of Sleep can't move or attack much in the same way a Dazed creature can't. Does FOM prevent sleep, too?
WalterGM RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8 |
Discussions about FOM do nothing to prevent me from getting sleepy, if that's any help.
Hey fellas, this FOM tangent belongs in a separate thread (in the rules forums) to prevent derailment.
EDIT: I'll do the legwork for you--here's a few to pick from
Freedom of Movement: the Final Thread
Are you immune to Dazed if...
Does Freedom of Movement negate daze?