BanHammer Request on Cape of feinting


Pathfinder Society

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Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

I'm loathe to urge the banning of something, but this is definitely ban-worthy.

5/5

2 people marked this as a favorite.

GIMME YOUR CAPE!

Sczarni 5/5 * Venture-Lieutenant, Washington—Pullman

The Fun Sponge wrote:
GIMME YOUR CAPE!

Oh god... all my funs are being removed!

Dark Archive 5/5

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps Subscriber

(I'll note I was an immediate banhammer bandwagon of the Quickrunner's shirt. This is much worse.)

4/5 *

3 people marked this as a favorite.

What if we just banned ACG classes instead? Then the cape isn't a problem!

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
GM Lamplighter wrote:
What if we just banned ACG classes instead? Then the cape isn't a problem!

Let's just ban classes altogether. I mean, we all already know most of us have no class, anyways. :p


Do note that this combo can be used with a whip.

3/5 5/5

GM Arkwright wrote:
Do note that this combo can be used with a whip.

Irori have mercy....

5/5 5/55/55/5

FiddlersGreen wrote:
GM Arkwright wrote:
Do note that this combo can be used with a whip.
Irori have mercy....

There's also a Blue scarf for increasing your reach by 5 feet...

3/5

David_Bross wrote:
Except PFS leadership can't errata stuff. They can only ban materials until they are issued an errata.

Say that to the aasimar, half-elf favored class bonus for oracles.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

19 people marked this as a favorite.

I will be adding this as unavailable in Additonal resources on the next update. Thanks for the feedback.

Silver Crusade 2/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
FiddlersGreen wrote:
GM Arkwright wrote:
Do note that this combo can be used with a whip.
Irori have mercy....
There's also a Blue scarf for increasing your reach by 5 feet...

What's this?

3/5

Joe M. wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
FiddlersGreen wrote:
GM Arkwright wrote:
Do note that this combo can be used with a whip.
Irori have mercy....
There's also a Blue scarf for increasing your reach by 5 feet...
What's this?

BNW... I'll be sad if you get that banned too! :)

Scarab Sages 4/5

DrakeRoberts wrote:
Joe M. wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
FiddlersGreen wrote:
GM Arkwright wrote:
Do note that this combo can be used with a whip.
Irori have mercy....
There's also a Blue scarf for increasing your reach by 5 feet...
What's this?
BNW... I'll be sad if you get that banned too! :)

Inquiring minds want to know, what is this item you speak of?

If it's a neck or shoulder slot item, or something along those lines, I've got a Kapenia Dancer that could use one. It would save taking a Magus Arcana.

Also, good news about the cape being banned. Thanks Mike!

3/5

Ferious Thune wrote:
DrakeRoberts wrote:
Joe M. wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
FiddlersGreen wrote:
GM Arkwright wrote:
Do note that this combo can be used with a whip.
Irori have mercy....
There's also a Blue scarf for increasing your reach by 5 feet...
What's this?
BNW... I'll be sad if you get that banned too! :)

Inquiring minds want to know, what is this item you speak of?

If it's a neck or shoulder slot item, or something along those lines, I've got a Kapenia Dancer that could use one. It would save taking a Magus Arcana.

Also, good news about the cape being banned. Thanks Mike!

Don't remember the name honestly. It's one of a collection of 4 2,500gp items that need to be held in your offhand.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Swordsmasters flare: Blue scarf Blue Scarf: The user can spend 1 panache point as a swift
action to increase her melee reach with light or one-handed
piercing weapons by 5 feet for 1 minute 2.5 k. Needs to be held in your off hand (so good news for people using a buckler or those dervish dancing saranites.)

Scarab Sages 4/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Swordsmasters flare: Blue scarf Blue Scarf: The user can spend 1 panache point as a swift

action to increase her melee reach with light or one-handed
piercing weapons by 5 feet for 1 minute 2.5 k. Needs to be held in your off hand (so good news for people using a buckler or those dervish dancing saranites.)

Ah. No good for my Magus, then. Looks like it's back to taking the elasticity arcana for me. Or maybe just a wand of Long Arm, since I'm planning on taking Wand Wielder anyway.

EDIT: Or both the Wand of Long Arm and the Elasticity arcana, since they seem to stack. One increases your reach, and one gives the weapon reach. It's a lot of trouble to get something a whip would give by default, but then with a whip, I'd need all the feats to do lethal damage and threaten, etc.

Silver Crusade 2/5 RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

BigNorseWolf wrote:

Swordsmasters flare: Blue scarf Blue Scarf: The user can spend 1 panache point as a swift

action to increase her melee reach with light or one-handed
piercing weapons by 5 feet for 1 minute 2.5 k. Needs to be held in your off hand (so good news for people using a buckler or those dervish dancing saranites.)

At least this one requires a panache point. Not nearly as crazy as the cape of feinting.

5/5 5/55/55/5

cartmanbeck wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Swordsmasters flare: Blue scarf Blue Scarf: The user can spend 1 panache point as a swift

action to increase her melee reach with light or one-handed
piercing weapons by 5 feet for 1 minute 2.5 k. Needs to be held in your off hand (so good news for people using a buckler or those dervish dancing saranites.)
At least this one requires a panache point. Not nearly as crazy as the cape of feinting.

I think its perfect. The penache point/swift action is an actual cost for a swashy, and needing to hold it in your other hand is a real downside for anyone else. (Rules not quoted about flair: it works once per day under its own power. The scarf is so swishy it has its OWN penache point)

Scarab Sages 4/5

Ferious Thune wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Swordsmasters flare: Blue scarf Blue Scarf: The user can spend 1 panache point as a swift

action to increase her melee reach with light or one-handed
piercing weapons by 5 feet for 1 minute 2.5 k. Needs to be held in your off hand (so good news for people using a buckler or those dervish dancing saranites.)

Ah. No good for my Magus, then. Looks like it's back to taking the elasticity arcana for me. Or maybe just a wand of Long Arm, since I'm planning on taking Wand Wielder anyway.

EDIT: Or both the Wand of Long Arm and the Elasticity arcana, since they seem to stack. One increases your reach, and one gives the weapon reach. It's a lot of trouble to get something a whip would give by default, but then with a whip, I'd need all the feats to do lethal damage and threaten, etc.

Or apparently I can just get a wand of Blade Lash, which is like a combination of True Strike and Long Arm in a single action for tripping.

Sorry, I'm still working my way through the book and keep discovering new options. I'm beginning to fear there's an even bigger power creep from this book than I thought. Classes like the Slayer and Arcanist on their own up the power level of Pathfinder. Add in some of these spells (throw Contingent Action and Contingent Scroll onto that list), and a lot of things that weren't possible before are suddenly very easy to obtain.

1/5

I could be wrong in my assessment but doesn't having to get in melee with the enemy make this a lot less powerful item than people are going on about?
Yeah, mages have to deal with saves (boo hoo) but they can stun someone, and worse, from the other side of the battlefield.

5/5 5/55/55/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
C Overton wrote:

I could be wrong in my assessment but doesn't having to get in melee with the enemy make this a lot less powerful item than people are going on about?

Yeah, mages have to deal with saves (boo hoo) but they can stun someone, and worse, from the other side of the battlefield.

Not really. There's no danger being next to someone thats stun locked.

1/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
C Overton wrote:

I could be wrong in my assessment but doesn't having to get in melee with the enemy make this a lot less powerful item than people are going on about?

Yeah, mages have to deal with saves (boo hoo) but they can stun someone, and worse, from the other side of the battlefield.
Not really. There's no danger being next to someone thats stun locked.

Agreed. I'm all for making powerful PC's but this item is just poorly worded. It would be strong as 3/day but as "Every hit all day" it's a game breaker and I say that about very little.

1/5

What I'm hearing is, "A swashbuckler stun locking the bbeg is more powerful, game breaking and fun destorying than the Paladin one shoting him."
Sorry. Makes no sense to me.
But, it's already been effectively banned, it seems. So that must be true. ...

Grand Lodge 2/5

I was thinking about this item a lot. Wizards can still kill things better, so I think it's ok. :)

1/5

C Overton wrote:

What I'm hearing is, "A swashbuckler stun locking the bbeg is more powerful, game breaking and fun destorying than the Paladin one shoting him."

Sorry. Makes no sense to me.
But, it's already been effectively banned, it seems. So that must be true. ...

The paladin can't do that to the neutral construct or creature.

The SB can do it to anything.
That being said dazing spell (and L rod of dazing should be banned)

Sovereign Court 2/5

C Overton wrote:

What I'm hearing is, "A swashbuckler stun locking the bbeg is more powerful, game breaking and fun destorying than the Paladin one shoting him."

Sorry. Makes no sense to me.
But, it's already been effectively banned, it seems. So that must be true. ...

So... just because there's already a build out there that can kill a bbeg in one hit, we should not take steps keep balance by keeping other over powered content out of the campaign?

That, I don't get.

Also, from a GM perspective, I find it much less fun when my bbeg gets stun/daze locked than when my bbeg gets nuked with a ton of damage. Just my 2 cents.

5/5 5/55/55/5

C Overton wrote:
What I'm hearing is, "A swashbuckler stun locking the bbeg is more powerful, game breaking and fun destorying than the Paladin one shoting him."

Close. The swashbuckler ALWAYS stun locking something is more powerful, game breaking, and fun destroying than the paladin SOMETIMES one shoting something.

Even with a slumber hex happy witch I at least get to roll my giant shiny hematite d 20 once...

1/5

Strictly from my perspective, the swashbuckler stunning the big bad makes me turn to the rest of the party and say, "Let's get him, guys!" Because even a stun locked dragon needs a halbred shoved in his face.
The Paladin or mage trivializing the whole scenario is another player basically saying, "You kids sit down and let the adults talk this out." In other words, not fun.
As for my two cents on GMing, I'd rather make sure the players are having fun rolling dice.
Just my opinion.

Sovereign Court 2/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Sometimes the fun in an encounter is seeing the cool stuff the enemies can do.

Grand Lodge 4/5

C Overton wrote:

Strictly from my perspective, the swashbuckler stunning the big bad makes me turn to the rest of the party and say, "Let's get him, guys!" Because even a stun locked dragon needs a halbred shoved in his face.

The Paladin or mage trivializing the whole scenario is another player basically saying, "You kids sit down and let the adults talk this out." In other words, not fun.
As for my two cents on GMing, I'd rather make sure the players are having fun rolling dice.
Just my opinion.

To be honest, once the BBEG is perma stun locked, unless he has minions, I would just end the encounter right there. "Okay, guys, since the BBEG is unable to act, you can just slice and dice him while the swashbuckler holds him in stasis. No need for any more die rolling for this encounter. Any day jobs?"

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Acedio wrote:
Sometimes the fun in an encounter is seeing the cool stuff the enemies can do.

I often disregard the nonsense my good friend Acedio rambles off, but this is the most prolific sentence about RPGs I've read in a long time.

Thank you.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I do not believe that word means what you think it means ...

(Did you mean 'profound', rather than 'prolific' ?)

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

1 person marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The swashbuckler ALWAYS stun locking something is more powerful, game breaking, and fun destroying than the paladin SOMETIMES one shoting something.

I wish you would quit saying Stun Lock. It isn't Stun Lock. It is Daze Lock. Which is actually worse in a lot of ways as I can think of several things that are immune to Stun, but nothing that is immune to Daze.

3/5

Stun lock is a common term from other games that is easily communicated for peopel that do not know the rules as well.

1/5

trollbill wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The swashbuckler ALWAYS stun locking something is more powerful, game breaking, and fun destroying than the paladin SOMETIMES one shoting something.
I wish you would quit saying Stun Lock. It isn't Stun Lock. It is Daze Lock. Which is actually worse in a lot of ways as I can think of several things that are immune to Stun, but nothing that is immune to Daze.

Freedom of movement is immune to daze! That's about it ._.

5/5 5/55/55/5

trollbill wrote:


I wish you would quit saying Stun Lock. It isn't Stun Lock. It is Daze Lock. Which is actually worse in a lot of ways as I can think of several things that are immune to Stun, but nothing that is immune to Daze.

Three wishes and you're going to burn one on THAT!?

5/5 5/55/55/5

Undone wrote:
trollbill wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The swashbuckler ALWAYS stun locking something is more powerful, game breaking, and fun destroying than the paladin SOMETIMES one shoting something.
I wish you would quit saying Stun Lock. It isn't Stun Lock. It is Daze Lock. Which is actually worse in a lot of ways as I can think of several things that are immune to Stun, but nothing that is immune to Daze.
Freedom of movement is immune to daze! That's about it ._.

I don't think so. You can still move around when you're dazed (your ac doesn't even drop) you just can't go anywhere because you don't have any actions.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

John Francis wrote:


I do not believe that word means what you think it means ...

(Did you mean 'profound', rather than 'prolific' ?)

That's what I get for posting on my iPhone with autocorrect enabled. Smartphone my ass.

3/5

Walter Sheppard wrote:
John Francis wrote:


I do not believe that word means what you think it means ...

(Did you mean 'profound', rather than 'prolific' ?)

That's what I get for posting on my iPhone with autocorrect enabled. Smartphone my ass.

The smart phone is trying make itself look smart by causing the owner to look dumb.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Walter Sheppard wrote:
Smartphone my ass.

Fun hobby: reading statements like this as though the word before "my ass" were a verb.

1/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Undone wrote:
trollbill wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
The swashbuckler ALWAYS stun locking something is more powerful, game breaking, and fun destroying than the paladin SOMETIMES one shoting something.
I wish you would quit saying Stun Lock. It isn't Stun Lock. It is Daze Lock. Which is actually worse in a lot of ways as I can think of several things that are immune to Stun, but nothing that is immune to Daze.
Freedom of movement is immune to daze! That's about it ._.
I don't think so. You can still move around when you're dazed (your ac doesn't even drop) you just can't go anywhere because you don't have any actions.

I've always though of FOM as "If it impedes your move action you're immune" Which is a nice way to think of it without over powering the spell (Still not immune to nausea but are immune to daze)

Sovereign Court 2/5

FOM does not prevent Daze or Stun because those effects are not impeding your movement, they are impeding your ability to take certain actions. Same reason that FOM doesn't prevent unconsciousness or death, they're not movement impeding effects, they're action preventing ailments. Additionally, with the logic you presented, FOM should prevent Petrification, but it doesn't; that's covered by Freedom.

Consider paralysis. You can still take actions, but your movement is impeded. That's why you can take purely mental actions that don't require movement.

With daze and stun you don't even get the option to take the action.

Also, for PFS, Daze is not in the list of stuff that FOM prevents, so strict reading type GMs will not allow Daze in there anyway.

Sovereign Court 2/5

Kind of on the topic of BBEG's getting one shot, has anybody ever had their BBEG get one shot by something like a save or suck, but then let the players proceed with the fight without the save or sucks anyway at no risk or resource cost?

They've already successfully overcome the encounter, but letting them fight the BBEG "the normal way" and handwaving the resource cost of the encounter if there's time for it could be fun.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

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I offered that as a player once. During Haunting of Hinojai I won initiative and solo'd the boss with some janky combo. However, since everyone at the table found that kind of bland, we just handwaved my instawin victory and played it out.

Much to the horror and excitement of the rest of the party ;)

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

BigNorseWolf wrote:
trollbill wrote:


I wish you would quit saying Stun Lock. It isn't Stun Lock. It is Daze Lock. Which is actually worse in a lot of ways as I can think of several things that are immune to Stun, but nothing that is immune to Daze.

Three wishes and you're going to burn one on THAT!?

We all have our crosses to bear.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Acedio wrote:

Kind of on the topic of BBEG's getting one shot, has anybody ever had their BBEG get one shot by something like a save or suck, but then let the players proceed with the fight without the save or sucks anyway at no risk or resource cost?

They've already successfully overcome the encounter, but letting them fight the BBEG "the normal way" and handwaving the resource cost of the encounter if there's time for it could be fun.

We did that in one of the first PFS sessions I ever played. It was an early season scenario that was pretty easy, subtier 1-2, and we had 7 players. We destroyed the BBEG in one or two hits, before he even went in initiative, so then we decided to keep going with the battle as if we were fighting the guy at subtier 4-5 instead.

1/5

Acedio wrote:

FOM does not prevent Daze or Stun because those effects are not impeding your movement, they are impeding your ability to take certain actions. Same reason that FOM doesn't prevent unconsciousness or death, they're not movement impeding effects, they're action preventing ailments. Additionally, with the logic you presented, FOM should prevent Petrification, but it doesn't; that's covered by Freedom.

Consider paralysis. You can still take actions, but your movement is impeded. That's why you can take purely mental actions that don't require movement.

With daze and stun you don't even get the option to take the action.

Also, for PFS, Daze is not in the list of stuff that FOM prevents, so strict reading type GMs will not allow Daze in there anyway.

I don't want to get into a long argument but

FOM
Spoiler:

This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.

The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, grant water breathing.


So anything that would prevent moving or attacking normally (Of which stunned and dazed are most definitely a part of) could be prevented by FOM unless the GM chooses to read it another way.

I'd actually prefer it to negate crowd control of all types from both sides of the table. That makes it so instead of having "Infinite boss buffs to negate specific conditions" I can slap FoM, mirror images, and some DR on him and he'll live at least a turn. It also prevents anticlimax's from needing house rules.

Sovereign Court 2/5

It says you can move and attack normally, but it says nothing about being able to take move actions or standard actions normally. Daze does not deny your ability to move or attack, it denies your ability to take actions. Paralysis prevents movement (and therefore attacking), but you can take move or standard actions that do not require movement (such as purely mental actions). Subtle difference.

Dazed, prd wrote:
Dazed: The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.

A victim of Sleep can't move or attack much in the same way a Dazed creature can't. Does FOM prevent sleep, too?

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

Discussions about FOM do nothing to prevent me from getting sleepy, if that's any help.

Hey fellas, this FOM tangent belongs in a separate thread (in the rules forums) to prevent derailment.

EDIT: I'll do the legwork for you--here's a few to pick from
Freedom of Movement: the Final Thread
Are you immune to Dazed if...
Does Freedom of Movement negate daze?

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